Posted December 27, 2013
Niggles
MOMOSaysMAHAYO;)
Niggles Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Apr 2009
From Australia
stonebro
Love Lumberjacks
stonebro Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2008
From Netherlands
Posted December 27, 2013
Geralt_of_Rivia: "Episodic"
This translates to: "We couldn't be bothered to carry the risk of game development, so we release an unfinished game (about 1/5 of the planned content) and finance the rest of the development through selling the unfinished first part. If this doesn't work out we don't care that our customers will have paid for an incomplete product because we *never guaranteed* there would be a next episode. On top of that we are a greedy bunch. We know we could never get away with charging 100$ for a game but by chopping it up into 5 pieces for 20 bucks each we can get people hooked on the first episode and then continue to milk them during the next year until we have the 100$ per customer"
I never buy episodic games until all parts have been released and are sold together for a competitive price.
This is complete bollocks. This translates to: "We couldn't be bothered to carry the risk of game development, so we release an unfinished game (about 1/5 of the planned content) and finance the rest of the development through selling the unfinished first part. If this doesn't work out we don't care that our customers will have paid for an incomplete product because we *never guaranteed* there would be a next episode. On top of that we are a greedy bunch. We know we could never get away with charging 100$ for a game but by chopping it up into 5 pieces for 20 bucks each we can get people hooked on the first episode and then continue to milk them during the next year until we have the 100$ per customer"
I never buy episodic games until all parts have been released and are sold together for a competitive price.
What episodic games can you mention where the developer has just stopped after episode 3/5?
What episodic games can you mention that costs $20 per episode for 5 episodes?
What episodic games can you mention where the full all-episodes product can reasonably be labeled as incomplete?
dnovraD
2023-08-14: Remember the Spaces!
dnovraD Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jul 2012
From United States
gandalfnho
Huntress
gandalfnho Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Dec 2009
From Brazil
Posted December 27, 2013
*Very hard games
*QTES
*No save anywhere/anytime option
*Lack of singleplayer
*Micro-transactions
*MMO
*Real ending only available in the hardest difficulty
*Too much DLCs
*Many escort missions envolving NPCs with the AI of a suicide lemming
*Time-based missions or the "pursuing wall/rising water" ones
*QTES
*No save anywhere/anytime option
*Lack of singleplayer
*Micro-transactions
*MMO
*Real ending only available in the hardest difficulty
*Too much DLCs
*Many escort missions envolving NPCs with the AI of a suicide lemming
*Time-based missions or the "pursuing wall/rising water" ones
NoNewTaleToTell
Deathrocker
NoNewTaleToTell Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: May 2009
From United States
Posted December 27, 2013
Steampunk: I just have zero interest in most things Steampunk
Focus on multiplayer: This seems to be developer speak for "we spent our entire budget on the multiplayer mode, the single player mode is one hour long".
Lifelike/Photorealistic graphics: If I wanted "lifelike/photorealistic" graphics I would go outside.
Grim: Most games that I've heard refer to themselves as "grim" are beyond cheesy and usually takes themselves way too seriously.
Integrated with social media: No. Just no.
Open world: I actually like open world games, however most open world games aren't open world, they're based on hubs. Being able to wander around a hub in between quests doesn't really count as open world (in my opinion).
Retro Graphics/Gameplay: If I want to play something "retro" I'll go play my old games.
Challenging/Hard/Not for Noobs: This seems to be developer speak for "we couldn't create any worthwhile gameplay mechanics so we just made it really simplistic and overly hard".
Modern take on *enter game/genre here*: Generally seems to be developer speak for "we couldn't really think of any ideas of our own".
Focus on multiplayer: This seems to be developer speak for "we spent our entire budget on the multiplayer mode, the single player mode is one hour long".
Lifelike/Photorealistic graphics: If I wanted "lifelike/photorealistic" graphics I would go outside.
Grim: Most games that I've heard refer to themselves as "grim" are beyond cheesy and usually takes themselves way too seriously.
Integrated with social media: No. Just no.
Open world: I actually like open world games, however most open world games aren't open world, they're based on hubs. Being able to wander around a hub in between quests doesn't really count as open world (in my opinion).
Retro Graphics/Gameplay: If I want to play something "retro" I'll go play my old games.
Challenging/Hard/Not for Noobs: This seems to be developer speak for "we couldn't create any worthwhile gameplay mechanics so we just made it really simplistic and overly hard".
Modern take on *enter game/genre here*: Generally seems to be developer speak for "we couldn't really think of any ideas of our own".
MGShogun
Pwner of noobs
MGShogun Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Feb 2010
From United States
Posted December 27, 2013
OMG, THIS GAME HAS SUPER OP EXPLODING GRAPHICS THAT WILL MAKE YOUR VIDEO CARD GO BOOM!
Yeah......... that. :(
Yeah......... that. :(
timppu
Don't worry, be sorry.
timppu Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jun 2011
From Finland
Posted December 27, 2013
Geralt_of_Rivia: "Episodic"
This translates to: "We couldn't be bothered to carry the risk of game development, so we release an unfinished game (about 1/5 of the planned content) and finance the rest of the development through selling the unfinished first part. If this doesn't work out we don't care that our customers will have paid for an incomplete product because we *never guaranteed* there would be a next episode. On top of that we are a greedy bunch. We know we could never get away with charging 100$ for a game but by chopping it up into 5 pieces for 20 bucks each we can get people hooked on the first episode and then continue to milk them during the next year until we have the 100$ per customer"
I never buy episodic games until all parts have been released and are sold together for a competitive price.
stonebro: This is complete bollocks. This translates to: "We couldn't be bothered to carry the risk of game development, so we release an unfinished game (about 1/5 of the planned content) and finance the rest of the development through selling the unfinished first part. If this doesn't work out we don't care that our customers will have paid for an incomplete product because we *never guaranteed* there would be a next episode. On top of that we are a greedy bunch. We know we could never get away with charging 100$ for a game but by chopping it up into 5 pieces for 20 bucks each we can get people hooked on the first episode and then continue to milk them during the next year until we have the 100$ per customer"
I never buy episodic games until all parts have been released and are sold together for a competitive price.
What episodic games can you mention where the developer has just stopped after episode 3/5?
What episodic games can you mention that costs $20 per episode for 5 episodes?
What episodic games can you mention where the full all-episodes product can reasonably be labeled as incomplete?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SiN_Episodes
Reading that, it seems to fit his description pretty well.
But then, maybe there have been more successful episodic games after that, like Telltale games. To me they may have maybe seemed a bit high priced at least at some point, but everyone can decide whether they are worth it. I have bought the Telltale games that have appeared on GOG, and looking forward to see The Walking Dead in GOG too (or failing that, I guess I could buy them ultra-cheap on some humble bundle).
cannard
canard misspelt
cannard Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Aug 2009
From United States
Geralt_of_Rivia
🐺 Gwynnbleid 🐺
Geralt_of_Rivia Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Apr 2009
From Austria
Posted December 28, 2013
Geralt_of_Rivia: "Episodic"
This translates to: "We couldn't be bothered to carry the risk of game development, so we release an unfinished game (about 1/5 of the planned content) and finance the rest of the development through selling the unfinished first part. If this doesn't work out we don't care that our customers will have paid for an incomplete product because we *never guaranteed* there would be a next episode. On top of that we are a greedy bunch. We know we could never get away with charging 100$ for a game but by chopping it up into 5 pieces for 20 bucks each we can get people hooked on the first episode and then continue to milk them during the next year until we have the 100$ per customer"
I never buy episodic games until all parts have been released and are sold together for a competitive price.
stonebro: This is complete bollocks. This translates to: "We couldn't be bothered to carry the risk of game development, so we release an unfinished game (about 1/5 of the planned content) and finance the rest of the development through selling the unfinished first part. If this doesn't work out we don't care that our customers will have paid for an incomplete product because we *never guaranteed* there would be a next episode. On top of that we are a greedy bunch. We know we could never get away with charging 100$ for a game but by chopping it up into 5 pieces for 20 bucks each we can get people hooked on the first episode and then continue to milk them during the next year until we have the 100$ per customer"
I never buy episodic games until all parts have been released and are sold together for a competitive price.
What episodic games can you mention where the developer has just stopped after episode 3/5?
What episodic games can you mention that costs $20 per episode for 5 episodes?
What episodic games can you mention where the full all-episodes product can reasonably be labeled as incomplete?
To answer your questions:
1) Foreword: I consider games where development has been delayed indefinitely or no release date can be given for the next part to be stopped.
*) Thanks for mentioning timppu, I would have forgotten about Sin Episodes. Stopped at 1/9.
*) Half-Life 2 - Episode X. Stopped at 2/X.
*) A Vampyre Story. Stopped at 1/2.
*) Alternate Reality. Stopped at 2/6.
*) Bone (Yes, even Telltale is guilty of interrupting a series.). Stopped at 1/X.
Honorary mention goes to:
*) On the Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness. Original developer stopped at 2/4. The series was then handed over to a different developer who made 3 and 4 completely different games than the first two. That's also a good way to ruin an episodic game. My guess is that 4 episodes were promised by the publisher and season passes (or however they called it) were sold for them and when the hired developer jumped off the project for whatever reason they had to finish the game somehow. You can watch the result at Humble Bundles weekly sale right now.
And these are just the games I can come up with without thinking too hard about it. I'm sure there are lots of titles that were left unfinished (especially from lesser known indies) that you and I have never heard about.
2) If my memory serves me correctly that was the standard price for any episode of any Telltale game back in the days when they started. Granted, they probably had high initial costs (for developing their engine, securing some popular rights like Sam & Max, etc.) which they needed to recoup at least partly as quickly as possible or they wouldn't be able to continue. And since Telltale was pretty much unknown at the time they couldn't get enough money with cheap episodes since they wouldn't sell enough.
I have just checked what their current pricing is. It seems that today where Telltale is well known and their games sell like sliced bread they can afford to sell the whole season right from the start for 25$. That's still not really cheap considering how short their games are but it's definitely reasonable!
But that doesn't change the fact that you pay for the whole game in advance while only getting 1/5th of it in the beginning. You only buy the promise of 5 episodes. If Telltale Games go bankrupt that promise is worth squat. And you even pay more than 20$ right from the start.
Probably they realized that many people bought the first episode and didn't like it because it was too short, too expensive (or for whatever reason) or people would wait for the finished season before buying. This way they make more money from one time buyers (25$ instead of 20$) and get 'Complete Season' buyers to pay earlier. That makes sense if only very few people actually bought the game episode by episode. That's pretty much standard business/marketing practice.
But that Telltale got their act together in this department (at least for the most part) doesn't change the fact that 'splitting up a game to squeeze more money out of the customers' is a common tactics nowadays that is not only practiced by episodic game developers but also through DLCs.
3) Please read more carefully. I never said that the full seasons are incomplete. I said that single episodes are.
Solei
Hard to catch
Solei Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2011
From Denmark
Posted December 28, 2013
Turn-based (not counting Worms and X-com series)
Mmo's and 'Pay to win' games
Single player and always on-line
Episodic content
Micro transactions
DLC's
Internet based DRM in general (Steam, UPlay, Origin)
Other invasive DRM schemes (Tages, SecurROM, Starforce, etc)
Slice-of-life shovelware like the Sims
Sport and manager games
Anything browser/cloud based.
Mmo's and 'Pay to win' games
Single player and always on-line
Episodic content
Micro transactions
DLC's
Internet based DRM in general (Steam, UPlay, Origin)
Other invasive DRM schemes (Tages, SecurROM, Starforce, etc)
Slice-of-life shovelware like the Sims
Sport and manager games
Anything browser/cloud based.
stonebro
Love Lumberjacks
stonebro Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2008
From Netherlands
Posted December 28, 2013
Geralt_of_Rivia: 1) Foreword: I consider games where development has been delayed indefinitely or no release date can be given for the next part to be stopped.
*) Thanks for mentioning timppu, I would have forgotten about Sin Episodes. Stopped at 1/9.
*) Half-Life 2 - Episode X. Stopped at 2/X.
*) A Vampyre Story. Stopped at 1/2.
*) Alternate Reality. Stopped at 2/6.
*) Bone (Yes, even Telltale is guilty of interrupting a series.). Stopped at 1/X.
That's a pretty loose definition of "episodic". Seems more like "games that end on a so far unresolved cliffhanger with vague intentions of following up" to me. Then I can mention lots too. *) Thanks for mentioning timppu, I would have forgotten about Sin Episodes. Stopped at 1/9.
*) Half-Life 2 - Episode X. Stopped at 2/X.
*) A Vampyre Story. Stopped at 1/2.
*) Alternate Reality. Stopped at 2/6.
*) Bone (Yes, even Telltale is guilty of interrupting a series.). Stopped at 1/X.
I think the episodic format makes a lot of sense for a small developer to seek to "exploit" their consumer base's trust to get an advance on profits to improve cash flow, and I encourage people I know to buy into that trust.
Of course, I expect an episodic game to come at a lower price point than a full retail release. Telltale have hit a good price point. I actually consider their games fairly cheap, at less than half of "accepted" retail price ($50-$60) for a "season" of one of their episodic games (pre-order price). Seeing as how they're expanding the episodic model to yet more games and licenses, it seems enough consumers agree with me.
I don't understand why people get worked up about this stuff. It's a valid model that can be good for everybody when executed right, so there's no need to blankly refuse a game just because it comes in whatever number of episodes.
Post edited December 28, 2013 by stonebro
Leroux
Major Blockhead
Leroux Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Apr 2010
From Germany
Posted December 28, 2013
I never knew A Vampyre Story was an episodic game ... Haven't played it yet. Wasn't there two Bone games, or is The Great Cow Race just an "expansion" to the first game? Still unfinished though, in any case.
Anyway, what about Insecticide Part 1? PC development for part 2 was scrapped and the story was completed only on the Nintendo DS, I think. Or Lylian, Episode 1: Paranoid Friendship? Never heard any mention of Episode 2 so far. Or that commercial Premium Module for Neverwinter Nights, Witch's Wake, that remained a short introduction to a planned series that never saw the light of day.
Btw, does anyone know what happened to Winter Voices in the end? Was the series finally completed or did it remain unfinished? I remember it was stalled for a long time and IIRC the dev team was dissolved or something? Did it change the dev?
EDIT: Apparantly Winter Voices returned and was eventually completed, but only re-sold on Steam, screwing everyone who had bought the first episodes from other stores?
Anyway, what about Insecticide Part 1? PC development for part 2 was scrapped and the story was completed only on the Nintendo DS, I think. Or Lylian, Episode 1: Paranoid Friendship? Never heard any mention of Episode 2 so far. Or that commercial Premium Module for Neverwinter Nights, Witch's Wake, that remained a short introduction to a planned series that never saw the light of day.
Btw, does anyone know what happened to Winter Voices in the end? Was the series finally completed or did it remain unfinished? I remember it was stalled for a long time and IIRC the dev team was dissolved or something? Did it change the dev?
EDIT: Apparantly Winter Voices returned and was eventually completed, but only re-sold on Steam, screwing everyone who had bought the first episodes from other stores?
Post edited December 28, 2013 by Leroux
Nirth
Songs of Conquest
Nirth Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Oct 2010
From Other
Posted December 28, 2013
gandalf.nho: *Very hard games
*QTES
*No save anywhere/anytime option
*Lack of singleplayer
*Micro-transactions
*MMO
*Real ending only available in the hardest difficulty
*Too much DLCs
*Many escort missions envolving NPCs with the AI of a suicide lemming
*Time-based missions or the "pursuing wall/rising water" ones
This covers it for me but I would add hardcoded framerate limits as well.*QTES
*No save anywhere/anytime option
*Lack of singleplayer
*Micro-transactions
*MMO
*Real ending only available in the hardest difficulty
*Too much DLCs
*Many escort missions envolving NPCs with the AI of a suicide lemming
*Time-based missions or the "pursuing wall/rising water" ones
Leroux
Major Blockhead
Leroux Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Apr 2010
From Germany
keeveek
NOPE
keeveek Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Dec 2009
From Poland