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General discussion (archive)So...Games that players who prefer DRM-Free will never able to play.(86 posts)(86 posts)
(86 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted January 27, 2012
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timppu: Discussion about DRM on a site which is anti-DRM? Go figure.
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bazilisek: To quote Fred_DM: "GoG isn't the Holy Church of DRM-free". It's just one part of the site's identity, and not the main one.

Hint: the site is called Good Old Games, not Good DRM-Free Games.
That is a silly argument, and you know it (I hope). "anti-DRM" is not mentioned in the name of the site, so GOG is not anti-DRM?

Unlike the "old" part (Witcher 1-2 anyone?), GOG seems to be 100% strict with their stance on DRM, as they refuse to publish any games with DRM on them here. If they weren't, then obviously we would see much more games here, newer too.
Posted January 27, 2012
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timppu: The physical DRM version of Witcher 2 was never released in GOG, so in practise it has nothing to with GOG.
give me a break here, it's the same company behind both products. next you'll tell me that GoG staff don't use Steam and never played Skyrim...

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timppu: Since GOG has a strict stance on not allowing any kind of DRM on games they release on the site, this pretty much is the "holy church of DRM-free PC games".
you're overplaying the DRM-free aspect of GoG. it's easy to offer those games DRM-free when they never had much or any DRM to begin with.

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timppu: This is probably the best forum in the universe to discuss about the evils of DRM in PC games.
it shouldn't be. it should be the best forum in the universe to discuss good old games. that's why i come here.

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timppu: But the most important point is that GOG does not _allow_ any DRM on the games on this site. It is irrelevant whether or not those games originally had DRM.
it's not irrelevant when many games don't require any modification in order to become DRM-free. they've always been DRM-free. or should i be thankful that GoG doesn't add DRM?

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timppu: And to be precise, CD checks are also a form of DRM (for example CSS on movie DVDs is considered to be DRM, go check Wikipedia if you don't believe me), so very few, if any, GOG games were fully DRM free from the beginning.
i'm aware of that. but if you turn a CD-checked game into a digital release it's really quite obvious that the CD check would have to be removed because, you know... otherwise the digital installation would ask for the disc.

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timppu: Funny then that certain two Steam-lovers never fail to participate in these discussions.
right, because only those who keep ranting about Steam are allowed to participate, huh? anyway, i'm not going through the pros and cons of Steam and DRM in general again. this discussion is at least 5 years old and it's grown stale a long time ago.
Posted January 27, 2012
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timppu: That is a silly argument, and you know it (I hope). "anti-DRM" is not mentioned in the name of the site, so GOG is not anti-DRM?
Read my post you're quoting, would you? I am saying there that being DRM-free is a part of the site's identity. But it's not the one that attracted me here, and I'm feeling a bit sorry for those who are here only for the DRM-free.
Posted January 27, 2012
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Fred_DM: i said this before but i'll say it again: GoG.com isn't antiDRM.com, OK?

GoG sells older games that happen to be DRM free. great. but most of those games never had any DRM to begin with, and many are available DRM-free in physical retail and on other websites (GamersGate, for example) as well.

GoG isn't an association combatting the use of DRM. it's a commercial webshop for the distribution of older games.
GOG refuses to publish any games with DRM. Unlike you imply, it is not just a coincidence that all the GOG games are fully DRM-free, including the only few years old games, or the CDPR releases Witcher 1-2.

Obviously people come here for different reasons, for you two DRM may not be part of it and you'd buy GOG games even if they had SecuROM or required EA Origin activation. For some others, it is a guarantee that none of the games they buy here have any kind of DRM that may prevent them from installing and playing their games, unlike on sites like GamersGate and Steam where they have to study first what 3rd party DRM it has, and what additional restrictions it puts to their access of the game.
Post edited January 27, 2012 by timppu
Posted January 27, 2012
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timppu: Obviously people come here for different reasons, for you two DRM may not be part of it and you'd buy GOG games even if they had SecuROM or required EA Origin activation.
Good, now we're on the same page. Can you understand now why we see all those "DRM sucks!" threads as this really annoying background noise? Particularly when they never ever reach any conclusion and just keep going around in circles? Because frankly, that's no discussion. That's reciting litanies.
Posted January 27, 2012
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timppu: GOG refuses to publish any games with DRM. Unlike you imply, it is not just a coincidence that all the GOG games are fully DRM-free, including the only few years old games, or the CDPR releases Witcher 1-2.

Obviously people come here for different reasons, for you two DRM may not be part of it and you'd buy GOG games even if they had SecuROM or required EA Origin activation. For some others, it is a guarantee that none of the games they buy here have any kind of DRM that may prevent them from installing and playing their games, unlike on sites like GamersGate and Steam where they have to study first what 3rd party DRM it has, and what additional restrictions it puts to their access of the game.
don't get me wrong here, friend. DRM is not a non-issue for me, either. one of the reasons why i shop with GoG.com is the fact that the games here have no DRM.

however, most of the older games offered on GoG have always been DRM-free. they are often DRM-free on other websites and they may even be DRM- (and copy protection-) free when bought on disc.

when it comes to older games, i tend to only buy them DRM-free, which makes GoG the primary source but not the only one. for example, you can buy the X-Com games off GamersGate and have them DRM-free.

what i'm saying is that the DRM-free aspect is only one reason why people shop here. whether it's the most important reason or not is individual. for me, the most important reason why i come to GoG is because they make games available again that have long been out of print.

i just hate to see the GoG forums become a rather hateful place of anti-DRM and anti-Steam rants at times.
Post edited January 27, 2012 by Fred_DM
Posted January 27, 2012
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timppu: Obviously people come here for different reasons, for you two DRM may not be part of it and you'd buy GOG games even if they had SecuROM or required EA Origin activation.
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bazilisek: Good, now we're on the same page. Can you understand now why we see all those "DRM sucks!" threads as this really annoying background noise? Particularly when they never ever reach any conclusion and just keep going around in circles? Because frankly, that's no discussion. That's reciting litanies.
I propose skipping such discussions.

Of the first 50 discussion threads I now see on the General Discussion area, maybe 2 are closely related to DRM in PC games (this discussion included), and a couple others are about ACTA, SOPA and PIPA (ie. not really about DRM, but combatting IP piracy overall).
Posted January 27, 2012
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timppu: I propose skipping such discussions.

Of the first 50 discussion threads I now see on the General Discussion area, maybe 2 are closely related to DRM in PC games (this discussion included), and a couple others are about ACTA, SOPA and PIPA (ie. not really about DRM, but combatting IP piracy overall).
I'm trying to do that (I was ignoring this particular thread for most of its existence). But lots of other threads, even seemingly unrelated, end up in Steam bashing or GOG praising, and I'm really rather tired of seeing that. It's just like those endless request threads/posts; sometimes they are easy to ignore, sometimes they're not, because they're tacked on somewhere where they don't really belong.

But point taken, I'm leaving this thread. I think I've helped hijacking it quite successfully :)
Posted January 27, 2012

fact is, friend, you're several years late with your rant. most of us have gone through discussions like these several times several years ago. and i, for one, don't intend to go through them again and again, so i respectfully bid you a good day, Sir, and i'll go play some Skyrim.
Sorry good sir but this matter is a new one for me. I wasn't into gaming for a while and when i return i saw everything became very very "bizarre".

As long as the DRM lives, discussion will live also. If you don't like or fed up with this you can simply ignore these kind of threads.

And i think discussion doesn't solve anything. We must act. I look forward to what can be done. What can i do. If you support you will join otherwise ignore. But if we reach our voice i hope i will be for the good of pc gamers.
Posted January 27, 2012
You know, piracy will eventually resolve the DRM issue. For a reason or another...
Posted January 27, 2012
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Magnitus: @Those who think people can vote with their wallet when buying games:

Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

There is a reason why free market != democracy.
I'd rather say "market != representative democracy", so it's more likely to work if you're not in the minority. Your examples don't disprove that you can vote with your wallet, they only point out that the majority of gamers doesn't care that much and would rather play the game anyway, regardless of the DRM it's got.

@others
Speaking of democracy, I find it pretty funny that some people apparantly come to an open forum with the expectation that only their own interests and positions are going to be represented, and then feel entitled to complain if this isn't the case, participating in threads that they don't agree with just to tell other people to shut up already. If I was one to complain all the time about what I don't like about this forum and its users, this kind of attitude would be very high on my list. But fortunately GOG forums != "Le roi, c'est moi".
Posted January 27, 2012
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Leroux: Speaking of democracy, I find it pretty funny that some people apparantly come to an open forum with the expectation that only their own interests and positions are going to be represented, and then feel entitled to complain if this isn't the case
That is not the point at all.
Posted January 27, 2012
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Leroux: Speaking of democracy, I find it pretty funny that some people apparantly come to an open forum with the expectation that only their own interests and positions are going to be represented, and then feel entitled to complain if this isn't the case
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bazilisek: That is not the point at all.
So what is? And who decides it?
Posted January 27, 2012
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Leroux: So what is? And who decides it?
The point I was making in this thread, which you missed entirely, was that I don't care if people disagree with me, but I do care if they keep repeating the same stuff over and over again. No one is deciding anything. Feel free to think whatever you want of DRM/Steam/GOG, I frankly don't give a toss. Just don't shove your opinions down my throat and we're fine.

(The last bit was not aimed at you personally, just outlining the general principle. And yes, I am sticking to my religious analogies in this thread, I think they fit nicely.)
Posted January 27, 2012
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Leroux: So what is? And who decides it?
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bazilisek: The point I was making in this thread, which you missed entirely, was that I don't care if people disagree with me, but I do care if they keep repeating the same stuff over and over again.
I didn't miss that, but maybe I didn't put it clearly enough in my post. That's why I didn't just refer to "positions" but also "interests". For you the topic is through, you probably had your share in the discussions and you're not interested to read the (presumably) same posts over and over again. Which is fine, it can get quite annoying for people who've already been around some time, especially if the forum gets cluttered with the same old threads that don't interest you anymore. But that's still just your personal point of view. Who decides what's new or old for whom and exactly when a discussion is over? If you're done with it, why don't you just move on and start more interesting threads yourself in order to improve the forum?
Post edited January 27, 2012 by Leroux
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)So...Games that players who prefer DRM-Free will never able to play.(86 posts)(86 posts)
(86 posts)