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General discussion (archive)Ok, so now Steam has gone and made me really hate them.(228 posts)(228 posts)
(228 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted October 03, 2009
I always understood the Steam hate but was never passionate about it, and I tended to buy Steam games when they were on sale or had a good preorder deal.
Well, no more.
I got Risen from Steam and while it did not list any 3rd party DRM on the store page, it has TAGES with activation. On top of Steam activation, of course. The real kick in the pants? Retail version only has a disc check. WTF?
Anyway, not listing it is pretty disgusting, especially since it is different from the retail version. I sent them a support email telling them what a good, long-time customer I am with over 100 games on their service and asked for a refund so I can get the retail version instead.
They told me to jump off a cliff, basically.
Some people are calling their card companies and getting the charge reversed as the card companies agree it is a "clear case of fraud." I know if I do this I will lose my account though, and 100 games I "own."
So, ok, I see the light.
Steam must fall.
Posted October 03, 2009
I don't want to be the one to defend Steam, but that's really the publisher's call. If they mask the fact that they have DRM in their titles and have an unbalanced DRM strategy then that's entirely their own fault.
Valve do need to do a lot more to clamp down on third party DRM though. It's not like 2nd hand sales are even possible through Steam.
Posted October 03, 2009
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StingingVelvet: Steam must fall.

I've only used Steam for Valve's own games as I'm wary of other games on there due to 3rd party DRM being as I've seen a few on there that do have things like Securom and yet don't state as such on the game description page.
In any case, you say you won't reverse the charge on your credit card as you'll lose your games, but you've also said Steam must fall and if Steam falls you will also lose your games.
Post edited October 03, 2009 by korell
Posted October 03, 2009
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StingingVelvet: I got Risen from Steam and while it did not list any 3rd party DRM on the store page, it has TAGES with activation. On top of Steam activation, of course. The real kick in the pants? Retail version only has a disc check. WTF?
Anyway, not listing it is pretty disgusting, especially since it is different from the retail version. I sent them a support email telling them what a good, long-time customer I am with over 100 games on their service and asked for a refund so I can get the retail version instead.

Yeah, that's prety much in line with stEAm's non disclosure policy towards their customers regarding...well, anything and everything, really.
There was a recent similar fuck up with Batman and SecuRom i believe ? They only added the SecuRom and activations limit notice on the game page some time after release ?
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StingingVelvet: Some people are calling their card companies and getting the charge reversed as the card companies agree it is a "clear case of fraud." I know if I do this I will lose my account though, and 100 games I "own."

You're right. Since they can disable your account at any time, you either go along with it or risk loosing your account if you rock the boat...
Post edited October 03, 2009 by Namur
Posted October 03, 2009
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Navagon: I don't want to be the one to defend Steam, but that's really the publisher's call. If they mask the fact that they have DRM in their titles and have an unbalanced DRM strategy then that's entirely their own fault.
Valve do need to do a lot more to clamp down on third party DRM though. It's not like 2nd hand sales are even possible through Steam.

You're right, it's the publisher's call but ultimately you're a customer of Steam. Your money goes to them. If you request a refund from them shortly after purchase due to undisclosed DRM, you're entitled to it.
Posted October 03, 2009
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Navagon: I don't want to be the one to defend Steam, but that's really the publisher's call. If they mask the fact that they have DRM in their titles and have an unbalanced DRM strategy then that's entirely their own fault.
Valve do need to do a lot more to clamp down on third party DRM though. It's not like 2nd hand sales are even possible through Steam.

It's not the 3rd party DRM that bothers me, it is the fact it was not listed. I got the game on Steam because it was 10% off plus no tax, which saved me $10, and it did not list any DRM on the sale page. It still doesn't.... but it has the worst form of DRM right now, TAGES with limited activations.
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korell: In any case, you say you won't reverse the charge on your credit card as you'll lose your games, but you've also said Steam must fall and if Steam falls you will also lose your games.

Well, "steam must fall" was meant to be overly dramatic. I just mean I won't be buying games on there anymore unless they are completely Steam exclusive.
Post edited October 03, 2009 by StingingVelvet
Posted October 03, 2009
Lesson to be learnt: If you care about the possibility of 3rd party DRM on Steam games, NEVER EVER pre-order. In fact, NEVER purchase in the first week.
It is a well known fact that Valve will very rarely (basically, never) list additional DRM on a new game until it's been released for several days.
Why they do this, is for you to decided. But they do it. And this is almost certainly a move by Valve considering that games such as FUEL had the 3rd party DRM listed before their release (it was in the system specs, the information which is basically added word for word from the publishers)
And for the record, Valve didnt list the DRM for FUEL on the right hand side of the store page, where most people look for the DRM information (the section of the store page added specifically by Valve and not the publisher) until several months after its release.
Posted October 03, 2009
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StingingVelvet: They told me to jump off a cliff, basically.

Out of curiosity, what exactly did they tell you?
Posted October 03, 2009
DRM is srz biznez.
Posted October 03, 2009
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Lucibel: You're right, it's the publisher's call but ultimately you're a customer of Steam. Your money goes to them. If you request a refund from them shortly after purchase due to undisclosed DRM, you're entitled to it.

I agree with that. It was mis-sold. Even if it was due to the publisher's silence regarding the DRM they're using. A refund should be in order.
Posted October 03, 2009
Do you remember the case of this game on Steam?
http://store.steampowered.com/app/35010/
They edited the store page after the compaints.
Posted October 03, 2009
I have to agree with some of the others that it isn't a good idea to pre-order anything 3rd-party from Steam, unless they have listed up-front whether it has DRM or not. While Steam can be great, it can also be extremely frustrating if you don't tread carefully.
Posted October 03, 2009
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StingingVelvet: It's not the 3rd party DRM that bothers me, it is the fact it was not listed.

Which is still the publisher's doing. If they withhold that information then there's not a lot that can be done about it at Valve's end. Until they're informed of the situation, that is.
Posted October 03, 2009
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StingingVelvet: It's not the 3rd party DRM that bothers me, it is the fact it was not listed.
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Navagon: Which is still the publisher's doing. If they withhold that information then there's not a lot that can be done about it at Valve's end. Until they're informed of the situation, that is.

it seems pretty impossible to me that Valve is completely unaware about the fact that the stuff they sell has DRM in it or not.
Posted October 03, 2009
I'm literally spinning in my chair.
do you knowhow hrd is to type?
anywy hte stem t00
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Community
General discussion (archive)Ok, so now Steam has gone and made me really hate them.(228 posts)(228 posts)
(228 posts)