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General discussion (archive)How much extra money will you pay for no DRM?(159 posts)(159 posts)
(159 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted April 09, 2012
A question to people who don't care about DRM:

Does it not bother you that DRM like SECUROM, TAGES or SAFEDISC installing their device drivers, can reach your hardware, make decisions without your permission and are always running on background, in some cases hurting your hardware and maybe slowing your computer down?

I don't need to install an unnecessary and device driver to my computer. I am "PAYING" to enjoy. Not to contaminate my computer. It is "ILLOGICAL". My computer is also my working place. I disable unneeded services and programs as soons as i install. I tweak my computer with everyway i can for efficiency, performance and simplicity.

There is no way that i consciously give money for turning my system to trash. Even if they give me money to install the game. I won't.
Posted April 09, 2012
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F1ach: You can back up GOG games onto an external drive. I dont think you can do that with Steam.
I'd expected Steam backups to work just like ordinary backups would; if you moved computers you could just move the backup files to the corresponding Steam folder on another computer you owned. As it turned out, I was wrong; Steam wouldn't recognize and accept them, and it insisted on redownloading the games anyway. So why is there a backup feature there in the first place then?

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Lokathor: Steam is DRM, but you can play the game in offline mode, so maybe $1 to avoid steam if I wanted to avoid Steam, since it's not a huge issue.
The problem is that Steam's "Offline Mode" is infamous for being "offline" in name only.
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ET3D: Gabe Newell said that if Steam closes then they'd first release an offline version of it.
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Gersen: It was years ago at a time where the only games on Steam where Valve's games, and it was during a interview.
What worries me about this claim is that it was never officially explicitly and clearly stated that this would be the case; people just latched onto what seemed like a few throwaway lines at the time and took to it as Gospel. People go on citing it like it's a given, yet no one actually seems to really know where and when Newell said it.

I think what worries me even more, come to think of it, is how people just naturally assume that Steam will never ever be in a position where there's even the slightest danger of it shutting down. Just a few years ago we were saying the same thing against THQ.
Post edited April 09, 2012 by rampancy
Posted April 09, 2012
First of all, I am very happy that GoG offers DRM free games and do not force you to have a specific client. It's great that you can backup your own games too as the above poster mentioned. Though, using Steam isn't that bad. However, I wouldn't want to buy a retail game and activate it through Steam afterwards (Alan Wake, for example). I would probably buy the game directly from Steam if no better option was available.

So, would I pay extra for a DRM and client free version of a game? Probably not. At least, not much. However, I might buy the game if it otherwise doesn't seem to be a good idea. Assassin's Creed 2 for PC has a no-no DRM. If it comes available in GoG, I would probably purchase it.
Post edited April 09, 2012 by nakano
Posted April 09, 2012
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Gersen: Except that Steam backups are totally useless if Steam is down, you won't be able to play them without cracking them first. (Which for Steam games usually means re-downloading the full game as it's not always easy to find a crack for the exact same version you have)

On the other side GoG backup will work without GoG or even without an Internet connection at all.
My point on the previous post was in regards to what the user said about steam suddenly shutting down and that is a gigantic waste of money, And I stated that if the service ever decides to shut down, you could still play the games you bought, just not online, and thus why I compared with GoG, if your Game Drive HDD crashes and you loose everything, and GoG goes out of business, it's the same deal as Valve shutting down steam.

It's a gamble you have in both instances.
Posted April 09, 2012
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Paingiver: A question to people who don't care about DRM:

Does it not bother you that DRM like SECUROM, TAGES or SAFEDISC installing their device drivers, can reach your hardware, make decisions without your permission and are always running on background, in some cases hurting your hardware and maybe slowing your computer down?
The short answer is: no. The long answer is: I believe that people aren't generally evil. DRM may be misguided, but it's not meant to harm people who buy the game. I think that DRM hurting your computer is about as much an urban myth as Steam removing its DRM (granted I was the one who mentioned that, but I agree it's dubious enough). Perhaps DRM caused some problems, but I don't recall seeing anyone being able to recreate the problem or doing articles on potential DRM damage. I certainly have enough things slowing my PC down and it's still performing decently.

That's not to say that I haven't been burned by DRM, but I'm more concerned about the concept than about the implementation, and I'm not concerned enough to lose sleep over it. I've lost some money to DRM, and I'm still alive and with enough content to spend playing, reading, watching or listening to for years. I also lost physical books, and I was just as sad as not being able to access something I bought any longer.

I would like to see thing become more DRM free, but frankly I'm more bothered by the length of the copyright term than by DRM, for example.
Posted April 09, 2012
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jungletoad: My question is how much extra will you pay to have your game without DRM?
I never buy PC games with noticeable DRM measures, so my answer would be zero. If it asks me to download some shitty client and have a permanent internet connection, I just pass the game forward on next christmas, but feel cheated.

Someone's going to say that nearly all games from other sources (non-GOG) have DRM and I've been cheated over and over anyway. That is possible, but I'm saying I don't like to be annoyed by DRM. If it annoys me, I feel like killing the creators of the game.
Posted April 09, 2012
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jungletoad: My question is how much extra will you pay to have your game without DRM? In other words, when comparing across the different services, how much extra money will you spend to get the game on GOG? If a new game is $60 on GOG and $50 on Steam, will you spend that $10 to not have DRM restrictions?
I don't mind certain types of DRM. But when a game comes with a client and/or online activation/authentication, I won't buy it. I'd rather not play the game at all, no matter how good it is. I don't like to be dependable on third party servers, or on an internet connection to install and play the game I legally bought.

But answering to your question, I'm willing to pay more 15/20€ maximum, if I'm really interested in the game.
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jungletoad: A secondary question is will your answer to the previous question be affected by how new the game is?
Yes. My answer is about new games.
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jungletoad: Previously, we have payed to have GOG remove DRM from games that already had it. We pay for that service. In the future, you could potentially be paying to make sure the DRM is never put in the game in the first place. You would be paying more to avoid a disservice. Does that change your answer above?
No. That's what this is all about. We shouldn't be paying for something that should be expected in the first place. But as I've said in another topic, we live in an unfortunate time where many people don't care about DRM schemes, and even defend them. Unless we do something to fight back (in this case, paying a bit more for DRM-free versions), these schemes will become standard.
Post edited April 09, 2012 by Alexrd
Posted April 09, 2012
I don't buy games with DRM. I just don't. There's never a reason too, really, now that I pay attention to it.

Yeah, I won't get Skyrim anytime soon legally (unless the laws change, or I move, or Amazon puts its foot down, or... etc). But for the $60 that would have been, I got Neverwinter Nights, BG 2, Icewind Dale 2, Legend of Grimrock and a humble bundle with Avadon (Spiderweb RPG). Oh, and a bunch of stuff from the Xmas sale. I'm having a blast with all these pretty awesome games. Avadon even runs on Android!

I guess you can say that I pay an infinite premium for DRM-free (a number/0 = error or infinity :) ). From a practical standpoint, you can say I'm a sale that DRM-free will get and basically nothing else will. It's not enough - I won't buy just because it's DRM-free. But it's necessary.
Posted April 09, 2012
I won't pay extra for no-DRM.

That's like paying a bookseller extra to be allowed to read the book whenever and wherever you want.

I've activated various indie games on Steam, but I also own the individual installers for them.

GOG does it right.
Posted April 09, 2012
I try to avoid DRM when possible, and I might be willing to pay slightly more for a title on GOG than elsewhere, knowing that it is DRM-free and would most likely have extra value with the bundled goodies.

Having said that, I will tolerate things like Steamworks for titles I really want to play, but I won't touch any game that requires constant online connection, limited installs (although I've fallen for this little gem a few times), or registration with a third-party (like Origin, Rockstar Social Club, Uplay, etc.).

I've basically stopped buying new games from EA, Ubisoft, Rockstar, Blizzard, and any other publisher requiring this kind of restrictive nonsense. The only time they'll see my money is if they release a game on GOG, and that's if I don't already own it on console. STEAM itself is a form of DRM and that should be enough, without adding more and more hurdles just to play a game.

It's just entertainment, after all, not some super-essential commodity or service that has to be tied up in red tape and beaurocracy.
Posted April 10, 2012
Now I think that DRM free should actually be cheaper. After all they had less effort in making the game without DRM.

And after all I am a great fan of not buying games that come with a price or a condition that I don't like. They're just entertainment, luxury so to speak, nothing I really need or couldn't easily replace by something similar which comes with better terms.
Posted April 10, 2012
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ET3D: Gabe Newell said that if Steam closes then they'd first release an offline version of it.
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timppu: I think that is an urban legend that was already busted in Mythbusters.

If Valve suddenly decided to "unlock" all of its Steam catalogue, they would first have to get a permission for that from all the copyright holders of all the hundreds (thousands?) of Steam games.

Furthermore, if it really was technically possible to just unlock all Steam games with one update, then certainly we would already have an universal Steam crack that would do exactly that. We don't, because most probably Steam DRM is not designed so poorly that it could be inactivated (unlocked) with one flip. Most probably you need to crack each Steam game separately to get rid of the Steam umbilical cord.

Last but not least, if Gabe really had publicly promised something like that, one would expect that promise to be included in the EULA/TOS of Steam. The EULA is currently saying the opposite, ie. Steam games are terminable on Valve's decision.
The day Steam goes belly up, I'm buying what is left of their company and start charging 1$ per month for still being able to use your games. Half of the Steam users will go mental, the rest will pay and I'm going to be rich.

The point is, Steam is so valuable right now (and for the forseeable future) that there will never be the issue of Steam authentification servers being offline. Unless they actually start throwing money away, Steam isn't going to go bust.
Posted April 10, 2012
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SimonG: The point is, Steam is so valuable right now (and for the forseeable future) that there will never be the issue of Steam authentification servers being offline. Unless they actually start throwing money away, Steam isn't going to go bust.
Sure, and Sega would never leave the console wars, and adventure games would never cease to be mainstream, etc, etc... No offense, but it only shows ignorance when people say that just because Steam is valuable now, their servers will last forever. Nobody knows what can happen tomorrow.
Posted April 10, 2012
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SimonG: The point is, Steam is so valuable right now (and for the forseeable future) that there will never be the issue of Steam authentification servers being offline. Unless they actually start throwing money away, Steam isn't going to go bust.
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Alexrd: Sure, and Sega would never leave the console wars, and adventure games would never cease to be mainstream, etc, etc... No offense, but it only shows ignorance when people say that just because Steam is valuable now, their servers will last forever. Nobody knows what can happen tomorrow.
Steam knows the gaming habits of 30mio+ gamers. Screw their business, the data they mined is priceless! I would love to get my hands on this.
Posted April 10, 2012
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SimonG: The point is, Steam is so valuable right now (and for the forseeable future) that there will never be the issue of Steam authentification servers being offline. Unless they actually start throwing money away, Steam isn't going to go bust.
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Alexrd: Sure, and Sega would never leave the console wars, and adventure games would never cease to be mainstream, etc, etc... No offense, but it only shows ignorance when people say that just because Steam is valuable now, their servers will last forever. Nobody knows what can happen tomorrow.
This.

Believing that Valve or Steam will never go belly up is naive at best. I remember SimonG saying in another thread that he is prepared to accept the risk of Valve going bust one of these days. That's fine, just as long as you acknowledge that there is a risk. Believing that Valve and Steam are somehow too big to fail or that their popularity will never wane though is sheer ignorance.

There are plenty of curious signs that Valve is perhaps not doing quite as well as one would believe with all the inflammatory reporting on the web. Forbes quoted some random figure of $3 billion, which was achieved by consulting with "video game industry insiders, equity analysts, investment bankers, and technology analysts". Yes, those same people that valued Zynga at $20 billion and thought that Borderlands was going to fail massively,

The fact alone that Valve is not going public makes me very, very suspicious.
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General discussion (archive)How much extra money will you pay for no DRM?(159 posts)(159 posts)
(159 posts)