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General discussion (archive)Customer service help and refund(131 posts)(131 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted September 16, 2014
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angelofmercy85: Dear GoG,

I had purchased a copy of Dont Starve Reign of Giants Dlc, and not realizing that your company does not distriput steam keys had emailed your support team for a refund and have yet to hear from your team. Please contact me ASAP so that this issue can be resolved quickly. Thank you

ticket number 7DGN29AV
Don't be a dumbass anymore.
Posted September 16, 2014
low rated
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JudasIscariot: "The thing is, if they find it doesn't work, they get a refund. If you buy the base game thinking you need to when you don't, you are permanently out of pocket."

Actually, no. We've refunded quite a few people who bought a game here expecting Steam keys or when they mistakenly bought a game before realizing they had it elsewhere or any other number of reasons similar if not the same as yours. In short, no, we don't just take your money like that :)
Actually yes. Getting a refund in the situation where you brought the base game when you didn't need to requires you to find out that you didn't need to. So yes, you would make money that way.

Finding out the DLC doesn't work is obvious (it happens when you try to use it). How are you supposed to find out you didn't actually need to buy the base game on GOG?

The text when you check out is even
Please note that you are required to own Democracy 3 on GOG.com to be able to purchase and play DLC: Democracy 3: Social Engineering
.. which isn't true.

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JudasIscariot: " You're preventing me from doing something reasonable (e.g. buying Democracy 3 DLC here, for the base game I purchased elsewhere) to prevent people from doing something silly.. which they are going to do anyway."

So why is it unreasonable for us to expect people to have the base game here if they want to buy the DLC here and receive our support along with our 30 day money back guarantee if something doesn't work?
They receive the DLC, support for the DLC and a 30 day money back gaurentee on.. the DLC. It's unreasonable to expect someone to pay £18+ for a Democracy 3 DLC (DLC + base game), when them spending £3 is all that is actually required.

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JudasIscariot: If they have the base game from elsewhere then the best course of action is to buy the DLC from there as well so that they can be sure everything works as intended. It would be a different story if digital distribution followed a standard installation method but it doesn't.
The best course of action is to be the victim of vendor lock-in? Err.. no. If it is possible for me to use GOG DLC on Indie Game Stand base games.. the best course of action is to buy the GOG DLC if that's where I want to get it.

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JudasIscariot: Besides, we can't prevent people doing something silly but we can at least try to mitigate the amount of silliness that may or may not occur :)
Do it in a way that doesn't prevent people who have sense from doing reasonable stuff. Catering to the lowest common denominator is why we can't have nice things.

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JudasIscariot: " You are creating the situation where people will be under the misconception that they have to purchase the base game on GOG, even though it isn't actually required. That is a purchase due to being misled."

It is required if they want to play the GOG version of the DLC. Again, if a person has a base game from another store, they should purchase the DLC from the same store.
No, it isn't required. I can download and install the Democracy 3 DLC from GOG into my Positech Games installation and.. it'll work fine.

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JudasIscariot: Also, some of the responsibility should lie with the prospective buyer in regards to their games inventory as a person should know which games they have where and purchase any DLC or expansions for them accordingly. We shouldn't expect to shoulder the burden of responsibility if someone does not remember where they have bought a given game but we refund mistaken purchases anyways.
And that responsiblity should extend to paying attention to the warning that trying to install GOG DLC on a non-GOG game might not work.

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JudasIscariot: "It doesn't matter if you support it or not."

Sure it doesn't ...until someone buys a DLC here while having the base game elsewhere and then expects us to make the game work or wants a refund because they expected our version of a DLC to work with a competitor's version. I am speaking of an average person not a power user who can tweak his or her files and whatnot.
And what is the problem here? They expect a refund.. you give it to them. You know, like you do now, but without treating everyone like children?
Posted September 16, 2014
high rated
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JudasIscariot: "The thing is, if they find it doesn't work, they get a refund. If you buy the base game thinking you need to when you don't, you are permanently out of pocket."

Actually, no. We've refunded quite a few people who bought a game here expecting Steam keys or when they mistakenly bought a game before realizing they had it elsewhere or any other number of reasons similar if not the same as yours. In short, no, we don't just take your money like that :)
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xyem: Actually yes. Getting a refund in the situation where you brought the base game when you didn't need to requires you to find out that you didn't need to. So yes, you would make money that way.

Finding out the DLC doesn't work is obvious (it happens when you try to use it). How are you supposed to find out you didn't actually need to buy the base game on GOG?

The text when you check out is even

Please note that you are required to own Democracy 3 on GOG.com to be able to purchase and play DLC: Democracy 3: Social Engineering
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xyem: .. which isn't true.

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JudasIscariot: " You're preventing me from doing something reasonable (e.g. buying Democracy 3 DLC here, for the base game I purchased elsewhere) to prevent people from doing something silly.. which they are going to do anyway."

So why is it unreasonable for us to expect people to have the base game here if they want to buy the DLC here and receive our support along with our 30 day money back guarantee if something doesn't work?
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xyem: They receive the DLC, support for the DLC and a 30 day money back gaurentee on.. the DLC. It's unreasonable to expect someone to pay £18+ for a Democracy 3 DLC (DLC + base game), when them spending £3 is all that is actually required.

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JudasIscariot: If they have the base game from elsewhere then the best course of action is to buy the DLC from there as well so that they can be sure everything works as intended. It would be a different story if digital distribution followed a standard installation method but it doesn't.
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xyem: The best course of action is to be the victim of vendor lock-in? Err.. no. If it is possible for me to use GOG DLC on Indie Game Stand base games.. the best course of action is to buy the GOG DLC if that's where I want to get it.

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JudasIscariot: Besides, we can't prevent people doing something silly but we can at least try to mitigate the amount of silliness that may or may not occur :)
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xyem: Do it in a way that doesn't prevent people who have sense from doing reasonable stuff. Catering to the lowest common denominator is why we can't have nice things.

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JudasIscariot: " You are creating the situation where people will be under the misconception that they have to purchase the base game on GOG, even though it isn't actually required. That is a purchase due to being misled."

It is required if they want to play the GOG version of the DLC. Again, if a person has a base game from another store, they should purchase the DLC from the same store.
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xyem: No, it isn't required. I can download and install the Democracy 3 DLC from GOG into my Positech Games installation and.. it'll work fine.

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JudasIscariot: Also, some of the responsibility should lie with the prospective buyer in regards to their games inventory as a person should know which games they have where and purchase any DLC or expansions for them accordingly. We shouldn't expect to shoulder the burden of responsibility if someone does not remember where they have bought a given game but we refund mistaken purchases anyways.
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xyem: And that responsiblity should extend to paying attention to the warning that trying to install GOG DLC on a non-GOG game might not work.

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JudasIscariot: "It doesn't matter if you support it or not."

Sure it doesn't ...until someone buys a DLC here while having the base game elsewhere and then expects us to make the game work or wants a refund because they expected our version of a DLC to work with a competitor's version. I am speaking of an average person not a power user who can tweak his or her files and whatnot.
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xyem: And what is the problem here? They expect a refund.. you give it to them. You know, like you do now, but without treating everyone like children?
" Actually yes. Getting a refund in the situation where you brought the base game when you didn't need to requires you to find out that you didn't need to. So yes, you would make money that way.

Finding out the DLC doesn't work is obvious (it happens when you try to use it). How are you supposed to find out you didn't actually need to buy the base game on GOG?"

How are we making money if people are getting refunds for a base game they purchased and then got refunded in the case of a mistaken purchase?

As to the second part: by keeping track of your own inventory and buying the DLC from where you purchased the base game?


"The text when you check out is even
Please note that you are required to own Democracy 3 on GOG.com to be able to purchase and play DLC: Democracy 3: Social Engineering
.. which isn't true. "

Might not be true for one vendor, might be true for another. We don't know that so we don't make any assumptions. If our version of a DLC works or doesn't work with the base game purchased from another vendor then it's not our concern. Our concern is that the GOG version of the base game and DLC work as advertised.

"They receive the DLC, support for the DLC and a 30 day money back gaurentee on.. the DLC. It's unreasonable to expect someone to pay £18+ for a Democracy 3 DLC (DLC + base game), when them spending £3 is all that is actually required. "

It's pointless to provide support for a DLC that refuses to work due to a possible incompatibility with a base game purchased elsewhere since a DLC requires the base game to actually work in the first place and if it won't install onto a nase game purchased elsewhere there's nothing for us to support.

"The best course of action is to be the victim of vendor lock-in? Err.. no. If it is possible for me to use GOG DLC on Indie Game Stand base games.. the best course of action is to buy the GOG DLC if that's where I want to get it. "

Again, we don't know if a GOG version of a DLC will work with another vendor's install. You are still free to gift the game to yourself if you feel like making the game work with a different vendor's version of the game but then it's caveat emptor at this point. Besides, we aren't the only ones requiring ownership of base game on our site in order to make use of the DLC, it's actually a common practice.

"Do it in a way that doesn't prevent people who have sense from doing reasonable stuff. Catering to the lowest common denominator is why we can't have nice things. "

We can't help the fact that a lower common denominator exists and that "people who have sense", to use your words, are severely outnumbered.

"No, it isn't required. I can download and install the Democracy 3 DLC from GOG into my Positech Games installation and.. it'll work fine."

Great, that works for one person. We get millions of hits and a wide variety of people with differing skill levels who visit here and make purchases. We have to be able to fully support as many people as possible and we can only do that with our versions and without assuming that our versions of DLCs will work with other vendors' versions.

"And that responsiblity should extend to paying attention to the warning that trying to install GOG DLC on a non-GOG game might not work. "

Correct :)

"And what is the problem here? They expect a refund.. you give it to them. You know, like you do now, but without treating everyone like children?"

Whatever restrictions we have in place aren't there to treat people like children but to prevent and mitigate potential abuse of our 30 day money back guarantee.
Posted September 16, 2014
low rated
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JudasIscariot: How are we making money if people are getting refunds for a base game they purchased and then got refunded in the case of a mistaken purchase?
As I said, you make money from the people who buy the base game on GOG, so they can buy the DLC, even though buying the base game from GOG wasn't actually required.

As I asked you, how are they supposed to find out it wasn't actually required?

You can gift DLC to other people. What? Am I supposed to track what services everyone else has bought their games on too? People don't tend to say "Oh, I would really like to get the X DLC for my GOG version of game A."

Those restrictions you have are to mitigate abuse of your 30 day money back gaurentee? They still either treat us like children or they treat us like abusers. Not only that, they are easy to work around as demonstrated by the OP.

You know, there is something else that has those exact same attributes (presuming the customer is the enemy, easy to work around).. Analog Wrongs Chaos, or something like that :P
Posted September 16, 2014
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JudasIscariot:
All reasonable / unreasonable stuff aside... I dont think ive ever noticed if the gog game pages show / tell what game version is required for a dlc.
In the case of current, DRM-FREE Indie games, it shouldnt matter what site you bought it from, only that the version numbers are compatible.
You yourself know know of my recent experiences in this, and I'm sure GOG would profit (at least in terms of support / refunds) if this were shown on the gamecards themselves (ie Current version: v.2.001.3), and thusly also allowing those update fetishists knowledge before they buy as to whether it will get their rocks off with its MD5 or whatever!

In short: good idea, yes?
Posted September 16, 2014
high rated
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JudasIscariot: How are we making money if people are getting refunds for a base game they purchased and then got refunded in the case of a mistaken purchase?
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xyem: As I said, you make money from the people who buy the base game on GOG, so they can buy the DLC, even though buying the base game from GOG wasn't actually required.

As I asked you, how are they supposed to find out it wasn't actually required?

You can gift DLC to other people. What? Am I supposed to track what services everyone else has bought their games on too? People don't tend to say "Oh, I would really like to get the X DLC for my GOG version of game A."

Those restrictions you have are to mitigate abuse of your 30 day money back gaurentee? They still either treat us like children or they treat us like abusers. Not only that, they are easy to work around as demonstrated by the OP.

You know, there is something else that has those exact same attributes (presuming the customer is the enemy, easy to work around).. Analog Wrongs Chaos, or something like that :P
" As I said, you make money from the people who buy the base game on GOG, so they can buy the DLC, even though buying the base game from GOG wasn't actually required.

As I asked you, how are they supposed to find out it wasn't actually required?"

By buying the DLC where they bought the original game and thus removing the question entirely. They can still buy the DLC via the gift method without buying the base game as has been demonstrated but then there should be no expectation of support in that case. Sorry but it's rather unfair to ask us to support problems with a DLC that isn't working with a version that isn't ours. Also, we can always restrict the gifting of DLCs and I am sure there would be some hue and cry about how we are being restrictive all of a sudden.

"You can gift DLC to other people. What? Am I supposed to track what services everyone else has bought their games on too? People don't tend to say "Oh, I would really like to get the X DLC for my GOG version of game A." "

Ask them to find out where they have a given game? I am sure they can keep track of their own inventories so you don't have to :)

"Those restrictions you have are to mitigate abuse of your 30 day money back gaurentee? They still either treat us like children or they treat us like abusers. Not only that, they are easy to work around as demonstrated by the OP. "

Unfortunately, most systems are prone to being abused and since we can't fully prevent such the best we can do is mitigate potential abuse. In return, you get proper support and a 30 day money back guarantee if our versions of games don't work as advertised. While you personally might be above any and all kind of abuse there are a million people who are more than happy to take advantage of any loophole or glitch.

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JudasIscariot:
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Sachys: All reasonable / unreasonable stuff aside... I dont think ive ever noticed if the gog game pages show / tell what game version is required for a dlc.
In the case of current, DRM-FREE Indie games, it shouldnt matter what site you bought it from, only that the version numbers are compatible.
You yourself know know of my recent experiences in this, and I'm sure GOG would profit (at least in terms of support / refunds) if this were shown on the gamecards themselves (ie Current version: v.2.001.3), and thusly also allowing those update fetishists knowledge before they buy as to whether it will get their rocks off with its MD5 or whatever!

In short: good idea, yes?
The DLC base game requirement is always listed just under the screenshots:

http://www.gog.com/game/surgeon_simulator_anniversary_edition

Previously there was a "This DLC requires X game on GOG.com in order to play" right next to the price. This longer notice has been moved to the check out page and is written in big bold letters so you cannot possibly miss it.
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JudasIscariot:
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Sachys: All reasonable / unreasonable stuff aside... I dont think ive ever noticed if the gog game pages show / tell what game version is required for a dlc.
In the case of current, DRM-FREE Indie games, it shouldnt matter what site you bought it from, only that the version numbers are compatible.
You yourself know know of my recent experiences in this, and I'm sure GOG would profit (at least in terms of support / refunds) if this were shown on the gamecards themselves (ie Current version: v.2.001.3), and thusly also allowing those update fetishists knowledge before they buy as to whether it will get their rocks off with its MD5 or whatever!

In short: good idea, yes?
It does matter from a support and 30 day money back guarantee.
Post edited September 16, 2014 by JudasIscariot
Posted September 16, 2014
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JudasIscariot: It does matter from a support and 30 day money back guarantee.
thats my point - you would have an amount of reduced "man hours" (potentially) if you listed the version number - what you linked does not, yet ive no doubt it would also be compatible with the correct version number of the base game if DRM FREE as well.

to quantify: that SOTS GOLD: PILGRIM DLC I aquired offsite should have been compatible with the GOG version as well (according to Kerberos) as the version numbers were the same. If they were not (and I had bought them here) headache for support /time wasted, if they were (and I had not previously used gog), new customer.

Like I said: just a thought, and also an open question to others as well.

oh, and the scottish cops called - you didnt pass the sobreity test last night! ;)
Post edited September 16, 2014 by Sachys
Posted September 17, 2014
low rated
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JudasIscariot: By buying the DLC where they bought the original game and thus removing the question entirely.
The DLC isn't available where they bought the original game. Your move.

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JudasIscariot: They can still buy the DLC via the gift method without buying the base game as has been demonstrated but then there should be no expectation of support in that case.
As there should be no expectation of support if you buy the DLC without buying the base game without using gifting. It's a distinction without a difference!

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JudasIscariot: Sorry but it's rather unfair to ask us to support problems with a DLC that isn't working with a version that isn't ours. Also, we can always restrict the gifting of DLCs and I am sure there would be some hue and cry about how we are being restrictive all of a sudden.
Funny, it's almost like I'm not asking you to support problems with a DLC that isn't working with a version that isn't yours. You know, just like I don't expect you to support games that require Windows, when I run them in Linux, I wouldn't expect you to support DLC for X when you have "GOG version of X" in the system requirements for the DLC.

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JudasIscariot: Ask them to find out where they have a given game? I am sure they can keep track of their own inventories so you don't have to :)
So no surprise gifting? Nice.

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JudasIscariot: Unfortunately, most systems are prone to being abused and since we can't fully prevent such the best we can do is mitigate potential abuse. In return, you get proper support and a 30 day money back guarantee if our versions of games don't work as advertised. While you personally might be above any and all kind of abuse there are a million people who are more than happy to take advantage of any loophole or glitch.
The same argument can be used to defend the use of DRM, as I said in my previous post. Seriously, reread your comment as though we were discussing Steam DRM and replace the "in return" with the benefits of using Steam (automatic updates, unified game launcher, chat, easy multiplayer join).

If you need to put a little tick next to my name that says "trusted customer" so I can buy whatever I want on GOG, even if it means shooting myself in the foot, go ahead and do that. I'm pretty sure I've earned that trust, it's not like I have been abusing all the glitches and loopholes I know about. I even turn down the offer of free games if I don't feel I've been wronged (e.g. Moto Racer 2 still having DRM active).

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JudasIscariot: Also, we can always restrict the gifting of DLCs and I am sure there would be some hue and cry about how we are being restrictive all of a sudden.
You mean like you already have? I just gifted myself some DLC without owning the base game and it won't let me redeem it.
Posted September 17, 2014
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JudasIscariot: By buying the DLC where they bought the original game and thus removing the question entirely.
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xyem: The DLC isn't available where they bought the original game. Your move.

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JudasIscariot: They can still buy the DLC via the gift method without buying the base game as has been demonstrated but then there should be no expectation of support in that case.
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xyem: As there should be no expectation of support if you buy the DLC without buying the base game without using gifting. It's a distinction without a difference!

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JudasIscariot: Sorry but it's rather unfair to ask us to support problems with a DLC that isn't working with a version that isn't ours. Also, we can always restrict the gifting of DLCs and I am sure there would be some hue and cry about how we are being restrictive all of a sudden.
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xyem: Funny, it's almost like I'm not asking you to support problems with a DLC that isn't working with a version that isn't yours. You know, just like I don't expect you to support games that require Windows, when I run them in Linux, I wouldn't expect you to support DLC for X when you have "GOG version of X" in the system requirements for the DLC.

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JudasIscariot: Ask them to find out where they have a given game? I am sure they can keep track of their own inventories so you don't have to :)
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xyem: So no surprise gifting? Nice.

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JudasIscariot: Unfortunately, most systems are prone to being abused and since we can't fully prevent such the best we can do is mitigate potential abuse. In return, you get proper support and a 30 day money back guarantee if our versions of games don't work as advertised. While you personally might be above any and all kind of abuse there are a million people who are more than happy to take advantage of any loophole or glitch.
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xyem: The same argument can be used to defend the use of DRM, as I said in my previous post. Seriously, reread your comment as though we were discussing Steam DRM and replace the "in return" with the benefits of using Steam (automatic updates, unified game launcher, chat, easy multiplayer join).

If you need to put a little tick next to my name that says "trusted customer" so I can buy whatever I want on GOG, even if it means shooting myself in the foot, go ahead and do that. I'm pretty sure I've earned that trust, it's not like I have been abusing all the glitches and loopholes I know about. I even turn down the offer of free games if I don't feel I've been wronged (e.g. Moto Racer 2 still having DRM active).

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JudasIscariot: Also, we can always restrict the gifting of DLCs and I am sure there would be some hue and cry about how we are being restrictive all of a sudden.
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xyem: You mean like you already have? I just gifted myself some DLC without owning the base game and it won't let me redeem it.
"The DLC isn't available where they bought the original game. Your move."

We don't have any control what other stores stock. If a customer wants the DLC at their chosen store they should request that the store cary a given DLC.

"As there should be no expectation of support if you buy the DLC without buying the base game without using gifting. It's a distinction without a difference!"

We either offer support or we don't. Offering support piecemeal "We'll support this scenario if X condition is present but not if condition Y is also present." is not a good solution.

"Funny, it's almost like I'm not asking you to support problems with a DLC that isn't working with a version that isn't yours. You know, just like I don't expect you to support games that require Windows, when I run them in Linux, I wouldn't expect you to support DLC for X when you have "GOG version of X" in the system requirements for the DLC."

Again, one person out of how many users?

"So no surprise gifting? Nice."

And no surprise problems that arise from an incompatibility between our version of a DLC and another vendor's base game.

"The same argument can be used to defend the use of DRM, as I said in my previous post. Seriously, reread your comment as though we were discussing Steam DRM and replace the "in return" with the benefits of using Steam (automatic updates, unified game launcher, chat, easy multiplayer join).

If you need to put a little tick next to my name that says "trusted customer" so I can buy whatever I want on GOG, even if it means shooting myself in the foot, go ahead and do that. I'm pretty sure I've earned that trust, it's not like I have been abusing all the glitches and loopholes I know about. I even turn down the offer of free games if I don't feel I've been wronged (e.g. Moto Racer 2 still having DRM active). "

We weren't discussing any sort of DRM. We were discussing purchasing restrictions that any digital store should have in place to mitigate wasted man hours trying to support problems that shouldn't have arisen in the first place.

Again, no one is implying that you (personal you in this case) have abused our trust but you are, again, one person out of many and we can't assume that people will act with the best intentions nor are we trying to treat anyone as a potential abuser but one does have to be somewhat cognizant of the fact that when there's an opportunity for an exploit, it will be used.

As for the Moto Racer 2 DRM (IIRC, that was the one where you couldn't shift out of second gear) that game was removed, fixed but I don't recall what the state of refunds was as this was way before I worked at GOG.

"You mean like you already have? I just gifted myself some DLC without owning the base game and it won't let me redeem it."

You were warned both on the game page and at check out that the DLC requires that base game on GOG. In any case, we'll be more than happy to refund you your money.
Posted September 17, 2014
low rated
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JudasIscariot: "The DLC isn't available where they bought the original game. Your move."

We don't have any control what other stores stock. If a customer wants the DLC at their chosen store they should request that the store cary a given DLC.
Not saying you do or should. I was negating your argument of "they should just buy the DLC where they own the game". If they can't do that, you expect them to rebuy the base game here, right? But if the DLC from GOG would work with the copy they already own, then it wasn't a purchase they needed to make. It therefore would be a purchase under duress as you are forcing someone to buy something they didn't need to buy.

It's like forcing someone to buy version 1.1 of a vacuum cleaner (GOG base game), because they needed a replacement accessory (GOG DLC) for their version 1.0 vacuum cleaner (IGS base game), even though the accessory they buy (DLC) would work with the version 1 (IGS base). Do you really not think this is shady behaviour?

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JudasIscariot: "As there should be no expectation of support if you buy the DLC without buying the base game without using gifting. It's a distinction without a difference!"

We either offer support or we don't. Offering support piecemeal "We'll support this scenario if X condition is present but not if condition Y is also present." is not a good solution.
You literally just said that you consider piecemeal support to be okay!
They can still buy the DLC via the gift method without buying the base game as has been demonstrated but then there should be no expectation of support in that case.
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JudasIscariot: "Funny, it's almost like I'm not asking you to support problems with a DLC that isn't working with a version that isn't yours. You know, just like I don't expect you to support games that require Windows, when I run them in Linux, I wouldn't expect you to support DLC for X when you have "GOG version of X" in the system requirements for the DLC."

Again, one person out of how many users?
Funny, you know which other group has extremely limited membership? Royalty
Customer love
Get soundtracks, artbooks, and manuals for free. Join huge and active gamer community. Expect great deals and royal treatment.
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JudasIscariot: We weren't discussing any sort of DRM. We were discussing purchasing restrictions that any digital store should have in place to mitigate wasted man hours trying to support problems that shouldn't have arisen in the first place.

Again, no one is implying that you (personal you in this case) have abused our trust but you are, again, one person out of many and we can't assume that people will act with the best intentions nor are we trying to treat anyone as a potential abuser but one does have to be somewhat cognizant of the fact that when there's an opportunity for an exploit, it will be used.
You colossally missed my point. The arguments you are making are the same as the ones used to justify DRM.

You are restricting me from buying what I want from the catalogue due to the unnecessary requirement of owning the base game here.
Is this really that different from restricting me from launching a single player game due to the unnecessary requirement of having an internet connection?

Not only that, the people who abuse your money back guarantee (which they can still do, this restriction doesn't even remotely stop it!), get treated better than I do. They abuse you, ask for a refund, you give it to them. I attempt to buy your entire catalogue legitimately and you won't even let me buy the DLC separate from the base game if that's what I want to do.

So the abuser profits through abuse and I can't even legitimately get one without the other. You know, like the pirate profits through their abuse, but the legitimate customer can't play because the authentication servers are down.


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JudasIscariot: As for the Moto Racer 2 DRM (IIRC, that was the one where you couldn't shift out of second gear) that game was removed, fixed but I don't recall what the state of refunds was as this was way before I worked at GOG.
Yes, that is the incident I am referring to. The game was removed from the catalogue, a free game was offered to everyone who had bought it (which I turned down) and then it was fixed. I don't think any refunds were given (or even asked for) as it was made clear it was coming back once it was fixed and it wasn't removed from anyone's library.

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JudasIscariot: "You mean like you already have? I just gifted myself some DLC without owning the base game and it won't let me redeem it."

You were warned both on the game page and at check out that the DLC requires that base game on GOG. In any case, we'll be more than happy to refund you your money.
Well for one, the warning on the game page didn't even show on my screen (the "also required to play" is below the "Other DLC" bit, which is at the bottom of my window.
Secondly, if you know you are gifting something, it is quite possible to immediately click the "gift this order" (e.g. you know where it is because you gift a lot) checkbox, which removes the warning from the screen, without noticing it.

Anyway, as you say, I was warned and I bought it anyway. However, the reason why I bought it was to test something (if you get a warning when you redeem it) so I'm not going to ask for a refund as that would be unreasonable.
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Posted September 17, 2014
low rated
Someone in another thread provided a really nice example of you stopping perfectly fine behaviour.

Why can't I buy the DLC on GOG, without owning the base game, when I intend on buying the base game from GOG later?
Posted September 17, 2014
high rated
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xyem: Someone in another thread provided a really nice example of you stopping perfectly fine behaviour.

Why can't I buy the DLC on GOG, without owning the base game, when I intend on buying the base game from GOG later?
Because we can't possibly know that you actually intend to buy the game later? The point of the matter is that it's a DLC that requires another piece of software in order to work properly by design (it adds content to a game), not DRM.


edit: typos
Post edited September 17, 2014 by JudasIscariot
Posted September 17, 2014
high rated
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xyem: Why can't I buy the DLC on GOG, without owning the base game, when I intend on buying the base game from GOG later?
Are you arguing just for fun?
Post edited September 17, 2014 by Rincewind81
Posted September 17, 2014
low rated
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JudasIscariot: Because we can't possibly know that you actually intend to buy the game later? The point of the matter is that it's a DLC that requires another piece of software in order to work properly by design (it adds content to a game), not DRM.

edit: typos
Just like you can't possibly know I deleted the game when I get my 30 day refund?
Or that you can't possibly know that I'm not lying when I say the game doesn't work?
Or that you can't possibly know that I'm not uploading every single GOG I own to a torrent site?

And again, you missed my point. I'm not saying it is DRM, I'm saying the arguments you are using i.e. "we can't trust everyone" are the same reasons used to justify DRM. And they don't work, for the same reason they don't justify DRM either.

So, again, justify why I can't buy the DLC (without a workaround) before I buy the game. You can't presume malice (otherwise, you wouldn't sell DRM-free games), you can't presume incompetence (the scenario I described has no room for it, the intended result is identical to buying the base game first).

So.. why can't I?
Posted September 17, 2014
low rated
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Rincewind81: Are you arguing just for fun?
No, I think GOG are prohibiting legitimate behaviour, so I'm arguing to get them to allow it.

If you think that's wrong, you're welcome to convince me otherwise.
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