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Time4Tea:
If I understand correctly, Bloodlines was released in an extremely buggy state, but the Gog version includes the fan patch that is deemed essential for playing, so it's generally fine. The last third or so of the game is often considered disappointing, since it becomes very combat-focused (while before there are many nice quests with non-combat solutions). I still liked and enjoyed it, but one definitely ought to be aware that a character without decent combat skills might become non-viable near the end of the game.
I already wrote about Arcanum above. It's definitely worth playing for the setting, story and many quests, but it does feel somewhat unfinished, because some elements are quite unbalanced and lack polish.
Post edited December 01, 2021 by morolf
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morolf: If I understand correctly, Bloodlines was released in an extremely buggy state, but the Gog version includes the fan patch that is deemed essential for playing, so it's generally fine. The last third or so of the game is often considered disappointing, since it becomes very combat-focused (while before there are many nice quests with non-combat solutions). I still liked and enjoyed it, but one definitely ought to be aware of that a character without decent combat skills might become non-viable near the end of the game.
I already wrote about Arcanum above. It's definitely worth playing for the setting, story and many quests, but it does feel somewhat unfinished, because some elements are quite unbalanced and lack polish.
Thanks for your comments. Even though overall I consider ToEE to be a bad game, I still think it is worth playing for a CRPG fan, to experience the excellent combat system and implementation of the 3.5 edition D&D ruleset. It is really a masterclass in how good RPG combat can be, but simultaneously a case study in how not to design a single-player campaign. For me, it ends up being disappointing though that such a great engine was wasted on such a poor campaign.

Based on what I saw in ToEE, I'm sure their other two games will be worth playing. Even if I don't end up finishing them, just to experience the parts they did well. I will go in with low expectations and expect jank :-)
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Time4Tea: ToEE is the only Troika game I have played. It seems very inconsistent, with flashes of brilliance, but also aspects that are very poorly-designed. I have started the game several times over the years and never been able to finish it, as I end up getting bored/frustrated. The character development and combat engine are awesome, but otherwise the campaign is very poorly designed. I have pretty much come to the conclusion that overall the negatives outweigh the positives and it is simply a bad game. I want to like it, but I can't.

I would like to try Arcanum and Bloodlines at some point. From the sound of it, they both also have a lot of rough edges and I'll have to hope the positives outweigh the negatives in those cases.
I would say that certainly in Bloodlines the good do in the end outweight the bad. Unfortunately what you said about Temple is true - in this case it is the opposite. I somewhat love that game - the music, the graphics, Greyhawk setting, the beginning of the story and some quests... but I never could finish the game. Like you, I always got bored with it. Me and one of my friends even joke sometimes, that one of us will finally soldier on and finish it one day. But nah... that will never happen.
Troika definetly had that mixed feeling about their games, but it's also really hard not to have some sort of soft spot for them, like them for what they are. Curious...
And I sincerely feel you're gonna like Bloodlines and the story. Especially if you like the Old World of Darkness lore.

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EchoOfMidgar: There are no bad dungeons in WRPG. Simple. :)
I was just thinking. That's true, but sadly, the reverse is probably also true. There are no outstandingly good dungeons in WRPG's either.
I know OP doesn't want to talk about JRPG's, but really I mostly find dungeons in those games more memorable and more dungeonly all in all. I feel one has to think hard to find something either very bad, or for that matter explicitly good about dungeons in WRPG's. And still this mostly applies to the RPG's of yore – from the 80's and 90's.
Post edited December 01, 2021 by pazZzurro
Skyrim. The whole game is just basically just one boring dungeon after another with "puzzles" a drunk monkey could solve. once you've seen one Skyrim dungeon, you've seen them all. I don't get how that game is so popular and gets so many remakes. It was so boring it's one of the few games I've started and never finished.
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Mean.Jim: Skyrim. The whole game is just basically just one boring dungeon after another with "puzzles" a drunk monkey could solve. once you've seen one Skyrim dungeon, you've seen them all. I don't get how that game is so popular and gets so many remakes. It was so boring it's one of the few games I've started and never finished.
Bethesda has a lot of dungeons but they are all bad and mainly optional - either procedurally generated or simply boring and repetitive.
For me one of the worst offenders in Bethesda games would be Fallout 3's "metro system" as you had to navigate it constantly just to get to DC and back (if you didn't want to fast-travel). But in general all Bethesda games dungoens are boring, random and not really worth your time.
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pazZzurro: I know OP doesn't want to talk about JRPG's, but really I mostly find dungeons in those games more memorable and more dungeonly all in all. I feel one has to think hard to find something either very bad, or for that matter explicitly good about dungeons in WRPG's. And still this mostly applies to the RPG's of yore – from the 80's and 90's.
I could talk about JRPGs; it's just that this topic is not about them.

Back to WRPGs, I do remember one dungeon from Might and Magic: World of Xeen that's rather obnoxious, but fortunately optional. Namely, the Dungeon of Death.

Level 1 is a crossword puzzle. Basically, you go around this level and answer questions about the game. There's no real action on this floor. I think there is a reward for clearing it, but it's the only meaningful thing you get for this dungeon.

Level 2 is home to some very nasty enemies, particularly one common one that can eradicate your party members. (Eradication is a condition worse than death, and curing either involves paying a lot of money (in a game where money, not XP, is the limiting factor for leveling up at this stage of the game).) The level does have one nasty troll, but at least it's funny. (Just remember to save often, so you can reload if that happens, and fortunately a certain spell can warn you about this.)

Level 3 is a maze, where there a piles of treasure that you need to jump over; if you touch one of them, the level resets. Thing is, at this point, you're really hurting for money, as you don't have nearly enough money to get the levels you qualify for, yet the game teases you with piles of treasure that you can't take.

Level 4 is interesting (won't spoil it here), but is unfortunately lacking in rewards. There's a common respawning enemy that is easy to kill quickly (provided you have a certain item), and which provides a lot of XP, but XP is useless without money, and again the game fails to give you any money here. Sure, you'll get a quest item as a drop constantly, but that item is useless, unless you're doing a *really* unusual playthrough of the game (as in, going out of your way to make this drop matter). Also, since it's a quest item, you can't even sell this item for money. The end isn't that interesting, either.

Of course, I could also mention the final dungeon of Swords of Xeen, where the only weapons that work on the enemies there are not accurate enough to hit them reliably at the expected level, and offensive magic doesn't work at all. Then again, Swords of Xeen is basically a fan mod that got a commercial release, and it has many other issues (like fountains that can cause integer overflow/underflow or be usable to raise stats infinitely, not to mention unreasonable difficulty spikes).
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pazZzurro: Bethesda has a lot of dungeons but they are all bad and mainly optional - either procedurally generated or simply boring and repetitive.
For me one of the worst offenders in Bethesda games would be Fallout 3's "metro system" as you had to navigate it constantly just to get to DC and back (if you didn't want to fast-travel). But in general all Bethesda games dungoens are boring, random and not really worth your time.
I actually liked Fallout 3's metro, the rest of the game... don't get me started. It was fun to explore and if you noticed the map in game (not the pip-boy, but an actual map texture on the wall) matched the station layout, which made navigating it easy. I did a no fast travel play through and I agree that it gets old when playing with no fast travel.