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mechmouse: A console game has been, until recently, A licensed copy of a copyrighted material.
While
PC games have always been A licence to install and use copyrighted material.

Let me make this more clear.

A console game is like a book. Buy a book and you own that physical item, with all the rights that come with owning a physical item. You can sell it or privately lend it and so own. We've got about four thousand years worth of laws and social contract that deals with such things.

A PC Game is like an imaginary magic wand which you wave to make the book appear. Only the person that has the magic wand is allowed to read the book. Unfortunately all the laws of the land deal with real physical objects, and are not very good when it comes to magic. You might be able to sell that wand, or let a private individual use it, or not. We've had this magic for about 50 years and the laws and defined rights are seriously lacking . So its up to the magicians that made the wand to make up their own rules, and the great thing it they have magic to enforce which ever rule they want (DRM).

Console owners don't like digital games, because they don't like magic. Or more precisely the lack of rules and control. Console owners fought against microsoft when they tried to turn Discs into wands (original XBox one design would have bound games to accounts just like steam and killed the console 2nd hand games).

Console owners know that gameX will be released at £60, in a month they know they can buy it new for £50, in 3 months £40 and 6 months it will be about £20 brand new.

With digital, games will remain at full price for much longer (normally years), only available cheaper during random sales or many years after release. They know they can't sell them or get them second hand.

Console owners, those people the laughably named PC Master race call peasants, will keep fighting against going digital for as long at they can.

With PC. We have no choice. Even when games came on discs, we really we're getting wands. Once the technology (magic) got developed enough publishers (magicians) had the ability to enforce their own rules.

Some people "like" digital games in the same way they like paying for bills direct debit. Its not that they like paying bills, its just easier. Since buying physical discs still forces you to use the digital service, its easier to skip that step.

Other people "like" digital games like they like breathing air, there is no other option. Physical PC games are very rare, and once again most link you to the digital service anyway.

Other people openly embrace digital games. I'm sure they've got their reasons....
Digital does not equal DRM.You can back up your GOG purchases for instance on DVD's External Hard Drives, or name your favorite physical storage device,and have a physical copy.
Your comparasion of Console and Computer games..with your implicatation that people never really owned computer games but somehow with consoles you "Owned" your games is pure nonsense.
And your criticism of Computer Gamers for feeling superior to Console Gamers,and then praising Console gamers as being brave fighters for freedom as opposed to the stupid Computer gamers is even sillier.
Post edited April 18, 2017 by dudalb
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dudalb: Digital does not equal DRM.You can back up your GOG purchases for instance on DVD's External Hard Drives, or name your favorite physical storage device,and have a physical copy.
Your comparasion of Console and Computer games..with your implicatation that people never really owned computer games but somehow with consoles you "Owned" your games is pure nonsense.
And your criticism of Computer Gamers for feeling superior to Console Gamers,and then praising Console gamers as being brave fighters for freedom as opposed to the stupid Computer gamers is even sillier.
There is no nonsense.

Console games which are not digitally downloaded are "Licenced copies of copyrighted material" in the same way books and DVD's are. As such consumers have the rights legally granted for such physical items. You own that disk and Publishers have absolutely no legal capability to restrict the resale of such materials.

While current gen consoles are moving into a grey area, where games are required to be copied to internal storage first, there has been no case to say the games are now licensed software.

PC games are licensed software, complete with all the pseudo legal rubish that they can put into a EULA.

I'm not saying digital means DRM, only that given the contractual nature of a license publishers can inlcude clauses they can not with console games. And of course they have the option in enforce those clauses via DRM. Even without DRM I can't sell my GoG games, but I am able sell my digital copy of Office (pre Office 364)

As for console gamers fighting for their rights. Yes they did. MS wanted to lock games to accounts and a large amount of xbox owners said "fine we're getting a PS4", enough to make MS change their plans.

PC gamers, sleep walked into a situation where one company now controls almost all of PC gaming. And many worship the guy in charge.
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timppu: Is the question mainly "why do console gamers (still) prefer buying games as physical versions, and PC gamers are largely now buying digital downloaded versions?"? Because the question in the title didn't make sense to me, at least I haven't noticed any "hate" for console digital games, but then I am not really a console gamer (my newest gaming console is a Playstation 2).
The question is as is and I asked it because I've experienced it among discussions online where people seem to gravitate towards PC digital, but console physical. I got a lot of good answers in this thread from different people that shed a lot of light, so it's cool. It was more informative than "digital forever! physical is dinosaur age grandpa!" or "physical forever, digital is intangible trash!". I play on both PC and console, but I've gone through phases where I was attracted to physical only, digital only, physical for console/ digital for PC, physical for both console and PC, etc. It all comes down to preference in the end, but I have been pretty indecisive due to similar length of positives and negatives on both ends.

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seppelfred: I'm completey against DRM. On console all digital downloads ar DRMed, so you don't own them.
On PC I can buy DRM-free games on GOG, that I can download and store them on my external HD. They are not tied to an account.

For consoles I buy only retail games, because I can lend them to a friend or resell them. That's not possible with digital games.
Yeah, this is why I'm thinking physical for consoles and GOG digital for PCs.

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dtgreene: Maybe you prefer to play the unpatched game? Maybe there's a glitch that lets you bypass a particularly annoying section of the game, but the patch removes that glitch?
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F1ach: But what about all the other glitches that the patch is supposed to fix :p
This is generally not a big deal as there aren't any game-breaking glitches/bugs for a lot of PS4 games. The patches are mostly for additional features including online multiplayer, not the single player campaign. I can play Uncharted 4 and The Last of Us Remastered fine without a patch and they even give you the option to skip the patch update and go right to the game if you want to. It's not as significant as people make it out to be. Unless you're playing a game that takes full advantage of multiplayer features, the game should run fine without patches and without internet. It's still very much plug & play, except the installation process.
Post edited April 18, 2017 by BTNLegend
I just spend a few days in a cabin without internet.

Nintendo Switch worked. GoG games worked. Old DOS games worked. (I scored 46 points in Bouncing Babies)

Steam games? Totally broken without internet. Wait, I actually PAID for this...?
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dudalb: Digital does not equal DRM.You can back up your GOG purchases for instance on DVD's External Hard Drives, or name your favorite physical storage device,and have a physical copy.
Your comparasion of Console and Computer games..with your implicatation that people never really owned computer games but somehow with consoles you "Owned" your games is pure nonsense.
And your criticism of Computer Gamers for feeling superior to Console Gamers,and then praising Console gamers as being brave fighters for freedom as opposed to the stupid Computer gamers is even sillier.
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mechmouse: There is no nonsense.

Console games which are not digitally downloaded are "Licenced copies of copyrighted material" in the same way books and DVD's are. As such consumers have the rights legally granted for such physical items. You own that disk and Publishers have absolutely no legal capability to restrict the resale of such materials.

While current gen consoles are moving into a grey area, where games are required to be copied to internal storage first, there has been no case to say the games are now licensed software.

PC games are licensed software, complete with all the pseudo legal rubish that they can put into a EULA.

I'm not saying digital means DRM, only that given the contractual nature of a license publishers can inlcude clauses they can not with console games. And of course they have the option in enforce those clauses via DRM. Even without DRM I can't sell my GoG games, but I am able sell my digital copy of Office (pre Office 364)

As for console gamers fighting for their rights. Yes they did. MS wanted to lock games to accounts and a large amount of xbox owners said "fine we're getting a PS4", enough to make MS change their plans.

PC gamers, sleep walked into a situation where one company now controls almost all of PC gaming. And many worship the guy in charge.
You are primarily a console gamer, right?

I
People with consoles are slowly starting to come around to digital downloaded games. It's being helped by console digital sales that are becoming just as aggressive as Steam sales. Of course it will never catch up to PC digital usage for some time yet, but eventually it will. The next round of consoles will have an optical drive...but I doubt the one after will.

The move has been slower because a console is a mass consumer electrical appliance, a PC (in it's use primarily by gamers) is a hobbyist tool. The average parent with a console, still likes the idea of trading their kids games in when they outgrow them or lose interest, for now.

As for me I have both current consoles and just did a check- 179 games installed on Xbox (of which half are Xbox 360 games), 20 of the installs are disc based games the remainder are digital.
On PS4- 20 games installed, 8 of them disc (5 of which came with the PS4 on purchase). Obviously I clearly prefer the Xbox.

Despite what someone above said, you can make backups of your digital purchases and use them anytime without internet connection on your main console- at least for Xbox you can, I haven't tried it on PS4 since they finally allowed ext drives, but I assume it will work just like Xbox. At any time you can move or copy an Xbox game to an external drive, as many times as you like. The caveats being 2 things: the external drive must be formatted in the consoles own file system and if you take it to another console other than your main one THEN you do have to connect briefly to validate your account. Even if XBL completely shutdown today, every single game I have downloaded will still work on my console as long as it doesn't break- and even if it does, I'm the person that fixes things anyway.
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Rixasha: I used to love physical copies for the PC too, but then I ran out of physical storage space. I rationalized that as long as the games are DRM-free, I can make the physical copy myself. Not going to burn them on discs or anything, but I do have everything downloaded to a dedicated hard disk. That's my physical copy, it doesn't take all that much physical space, and is easier to keep up to date too.

I don't have a backup for the disk; if it breaks I'll just re-download the bunch. Were gog to go under I'll look into something more robust.
That makes lots of sense. You Finns are always so damn practical and down to earth.
I am wondering if one poster here does not know that until circa 2004,most computer games came on physical discs just like console games. only difference being you needed to install them. No on line activation required;many had codes that you got when you bought the game that you needed to enter when you installed, but as long as you had the code you could install on any number of computers. In other words, almost the same as consols.
I don't get the poster's insistence that the legal crap for cosole game is somehow different then the legal crap of PC Games.

I always love that in the Bevis and Butthead "Virtual Stupidity" PC game, when they play the required legal stuff,it's is titled: "Legal Crap".
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dudalb: I don't get the poster's insistence that the legal crap for cosole game is somehow different then the legal crap of PC Games.
To cut a long story short, I just pulled a few old boxed games (from the 90's) and physically read their license agreements, and do you know what? The person you're talking about is correct, the legal crap IS different between PC and Console. Even back then.
The license is for use of the software on the CD (that's exactly how they word it), the CD being nothing more than a transport medium and a half-assed attempt at DRM. I checked a few old games, and they're all similar. Further, the license doesn't allow transferal- which means, to the letter of the law, you are not allowed to sell it, trade it etc. You bought the license, not the person you give or sell the CD to. I know the stuff in the license is unenforceable and probably irrelevant because of it- we all used to sell and trade and copy PC game discs, but it doesn't mean we were doing it legally.

Trading/selling console discs and cartridges is perfectly legal at this point.
Consoles are locked to a single store, and that monopoly means decent discounts are rare. A few months after release you might be able to get the PC version of a AAA game for £10 while the PS4 version still costs £60 and always will.
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KasperHviid: I just spend a few days in a cabin without internet.

Nintendo Switch worked. GoG games worked. Old DOS games worked. (I scored 46 points in Bouncing Babies)

Steam games? Totally broken without internet. Wait, I actually PAID for this...?
Play in offline mode, problem solved.
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eisberg77: Play in offline mode, problem solved.
That doesn't work without logging in ONLINE ("regularly") . Are you sure you're on the right website? This isn't Steam you know.
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dudalb: Digital does not equal DRM.You can back up your GOG purchases for instance on DVD's External Hard Drives, or name your favorite physical storage device,and have a physical copy.
Your comparasion of Console and Computer games..with your implicatation that people never really owned computer games but somehow with consoles you "Owned" your games is pure nonsense.
And your criticism of Computer Gamers for feeling superior to Console Gamers,and then praising Console gamers as being brave fighters for freedom as opposed to the stupid Computer gamers is even sillier.
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mechmouse: There is no nonsense.

Console games which are not digitally downloaded are "Licenced copies of copyrighted material" in the same way books and DVD's are. As such consumers have the rights legally granted for such physical items. You own that disk and Publishers have absolutely no legal capability to restrict the resale of such materials.

While current gen consoles are moving into a grey area, where games are required to be copied to internal storage first, there has been no case to say the games are now licensed software.

PC games are licensed software, complete with all the pseudo legal rubish that they can put into a EULA.

I'm not saying digital means DRM, only that given the contractual nature of a license publishers can inlcude clauses they can not with console games. And of course they have the option in enforce those clauses via DRM. Even without DRM I can't sell my GoG games, but I am able sell my digital copy of Office (pre Office 364)

As for console gamers fighting for their rights. Yes they did. MS wanted to lock games to accounts and a large amount of xbox owners said "fine we're getting a PS4", enough to make MS change their plans.

PC gamers, sleep walked into a situation where one company now controls almost all of PC gaming. And many worship the guy in charge.
Overall thats exactly how it is.

But in defense of my weak willed brothers and sisters of PC gaming: Microsoft did what it usually did by being ingorant to the world they live in. They made it very easy for the console gamers to go to the competition which released at the same time; also both released with a pityful amount of games.

When Gabe released the ground zero of online DRM with HL2 he did with something hyped to no end; with the must have for everybody game back then. He did observed the market and played his cards in his favour. And even then it took a while to turn PC gaming into the sad walled garden state it is in and almost killing off retail PC gaming.
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CMOT70: To cut a long story short, I just pulled a few old boxed games (from the 90's) and physically read their license agreements, and do you know what? The person you're talking about is correct, the legal crap IS different between PC and Console. Even back then.
The license is for use of the software on the CD (that's exactly how they word it), the CD being nothing more than a transport medium and a half-assed attempt at DRM. I checked a few old games, and they're all similar. Further, the license doesn't allow transferal- which means, to the letter of the law, you are not allowed to sell it, trade it etc. You bought the license, not the person you give or sell the CD to. I know the stuff in the license is unenforceable and probably irrelevant because of it- we all used to sell and trade and copy PC game discs, but it doesn't mean we were doing it legally.

Trading/selling console discs and cartridges is perfectly legal at this point.
The license and/or EULA is not above the law (of the country/state you reside in).
Over here, you own the physical disc a game (PC, console, whatever) comes on and are free* to do with as you will.

*don't make silly comments - no of course you can't use it to kill other people with.
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teceem: The license and/or EULA is not above the law (of the country/state you reside in).
Over here, you own the physical disc a game (PC, console, whatever) comes on and are free* to do with as you will.

*don't make silly comments - no of course you can't use it to kill other people with.
The problem is the LAW regarding software ownership is vague. I mean really vague. I know, I've read hundreds of pages of US and EU copyright laws trying to get my head around this.

The problem with software is this.

Buy a book, and you own the physical book but not the words in the book. If you start to copy the words from the book to another book you are breaking the law.

Now the law has certain exemptions (such as research or disability aids) that allows you to copy some or all of the text. But thats it.

For software to work you must (in most circumstances) copy the data from the disc to you computer. That act under currently defined copyright laws is illegal.

There is no law or regulation to cover this except via an agreement from the copyright holder. Which is why we have licensing.

The problem is, this licensing is completely controlled by the publishers. Free to add what ever clauses they want, knowing that they can enforce them freely.

So while you can free resell the physical disc, the right to copy that data onto the computer to use the software is not a legal certainty.