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Dawnsinger: Could you please, after insulting us again if you must, not link to where some legalese is, but to where the hate speech is, and why it is such? The option of recoloring a game character, I suppose? Or has anyone actually read and compared the alleged codex entry changes?

Oh, and please stop flaunting ultimata.
I don't know why you specifically took offence, but if you don't know yours and your fellow human's rights, then obviously there is lack of education on the matter. How else am I supposed to say it? Ignorance on the topic, lack of knowledge on the subject matter, short of learning in the matter at hand. I mean, there are only a number of ways I can express it, and yet you took offence.

From the United Nations page:

Hate speech can be conveyed through any form of expression, including images, cartoons, memes, objects, gestures and symbols and it can be disseminated offline or online.

Hate speech is “discriminatory” (biased, bigoted or intolerant) or “pejorative” (prejudiced, contemptuous or demeaning) of an individual or group.

Hate speech calls out real or perceived “identity factors” of an individual or a group, including: “religion, ethnicity, nationality, race, colour, descent, gender,” but also characteristics such as language, economic or social origin, disability, health status, or sexual orientation, among many others.
Warhorse's artistic vision called for having a character with X characteristics (in this case, skin color). A person came along and removed this character because of his characteristics, and also removed any reference to homoerotic references (which could be not initiated by the player to begin with should the player choose to never initiate, and would therefore never encounter it), removed romantic requirements for two characters and made them "easier to bang" because why should we think that a woman should be called intelligent, and also added the Russo-English spelling of Kyiv/Kiev in the game, because I guess "Ukraine who?"

So, again, taking notes from the UN page, this is "discriminatory, biased, bigoted, intolerant", and "removes characters with real or perceived identity factors".

This has been discussed ad nauseam. The facts are there and the law is clear. You can consider them ultimata, but it won't change anything.

I can't simplify it more than this.

Edit: Also, I've set my account for deletion. Good luck.
Post edited April 01, 2025 by user deleted
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dnovraD: Perhaps being quiet simply isn't suitable.
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Dawnsinger: It is not only suitable, [...]
And?

For the other side you will be labeled as a woke authoritarian, a SJW, a libtard or a communist if you disagree to "put trannies to sleep like a sick animal" or disagree to shoot immigrants instead of just deporting them. Then just look which side here wants to censor things they dislike in games. That's what these mods are about. They weren't created for funsies. They were created for censorship. The biggest and most vocal anti-censorship crowd is just a bunch of hypocrites.
Post edited April 01, 2025 by foad01
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Unfortunately, both sides of the political spectrum engage in selective support of the First Amendment. The political left and especially the political right only seem to bitch and moan about free speech when something they happen to like or agree with is being suppressed as hateful. As long as it's something they oppose, they're fine with violating free speech to have it taken down or blocked. There's no more obvious example of this than our current Dictator. Oops, I mean President.

They also (again, especially the right) don't seem to understand the concept that businesses have the right to enforce a code of conduct on their own property/websites. That's where so much of the right's whining about free speech on social networks in recent years came from (again, the left does it too, but not as much as the far right does). They broke the rules of companies whose services they were using, had their content removed or were banned, and then screamed about free speech even though it was their own fault for breaking rules they'd agreed to when signing up for the service in the first place.

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This point, perhaps more than anything else that has been said in this entire ridiculous thread is the most important one. You're right, by the legal standards in place in the country of origin for gog.com, the content in question would be illegal and should be removed. It doesn't make any difference what anyone else in the thread thinks beyond that point; if it meets the standards of illegality in GOG's country of origin, then that's that.

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An unfortunate overreaction, I think. But you must do what you feel is right for you, I guess.
Post edited April 01, 2025 by toroca
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That's your choice. But don't forget to backup your games first if you haven't already.
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toroca: This point, perhaps more than anything else that has been said in this entire ridiculous thread is the most important one. You're right, by the legal standards in place in the country of origin for gog.com, the content in question would be illegal and should be removed. It doesn't make any difference what anyone else in the thread thinks beyond that point; if it meets the standards of illegality in GOG's country of origin, then that's that.
I still don't think it's covered by the UN definition of hate speech. It highly depends on the history of the game itself, and I honestly don't want to research that. The offending post introduces the mod by
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foad01: Some (still WIP) mods to bring the game more in line with the authentic, non-revisionist and less jarring experience that was initially promised:
So, was an authentic experience promised, and do those characters / options run afoul of these promises? How much actually was "revised", and how was the "un-revising" done? This would matter more to me than any recoloration issues.
Also, the mods are not hosted on or by GOG, but possibly linking is also not allowed. I assume this borderline (il)legality has kept it here. Eventually it'll get removed, I'm certain of this, legal or not, because it's always the safest way, and I wouldn't want GOG to burn money in court over someone elses claims.
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foad01:
Probably you should reconsider, since if you own games on GOG, you should definitely not do that, as you're losing legal claim to them if you do. If this isn't your main account, then this doesn't apply of course.
Post edited April 01, 2025 by Dawnsinger
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Dawnsinger: Probably you should reconsider, since if you own games on GOG, you should definitely not do that, as you're losing legal claim to them if you do. If this isn't your main account, then this doesn't apply of course.
If you save your email receipts (and so can prove you bought them), you most certainly do have legal claim to them.
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Please don't do this. At least think about the fact you'll be missing out on updates for various games, or the ability to redownload your backups in case something was wrong with one of them.
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Dawnsinger: Probably you should reconsider, since if you own games on GOG, you should definitely not do that, as you're losing legal claim to them if you do. If this isn't your main account, then this doesn't apply of course.
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Plasticine879: If you save your email receipts (and so can prove you bought them), you most certainly do have legal claim to them.
Depends what the "(a) we will keep information that is associated with your GOG account for the duration of your agreement for the access to GOG services (i.e. until you close your GOG account). If you choose to close your GOG account, limited data that we collect about you may still be retained for tax, legal and accounting purposes;" are. If the data aren't there, you cannot prove it was you because you can manipulate or outright fake an email. You could prove the mail is legit if GOG chose to digitally sign those reciepts, but, as usual, they chose not to.
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Plasticine879: If you save your email receipts (and so can prove you bought them), you most certainly do have legal claim to them.
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Dawnsinger: Depends what the "(a) we will keep information that is associated with your GOG account for the duration of your agreement for the access to GOG services (i.e. until you close your GOG account). If you choose to close your GOG account, limited data that we collect about you may still be retained for tax, legal and accounting purposes;" are. If the data aren't there, you cannot prove it was you because you can manipulate or outright fake an email. You could prove the mail is legit if GOG chose to digitally sign those reciepts, but, as usual, they chose not to.
Email headers are more difficult to forge.
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Vainamoinen: No ... I don't think we need free speech for russo-fascist propaganda. And that's not just because we'd be supporting history revisionism, rampant homophobia, horrid conspiracy nonsense, far reaching censorship and – drumroll – genocide.
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lupineshadow: Absolutely we need free speech for russo-fascist propaganda.
You do realize that the Russian propaganda machine is itself one of the WEAPONS the totalitarian nation uses against the rest of the world, right? 1. You need to defend yourself from the attack, education is a long-term luxury you can't have right now but dismantling propaganda is a defensive tactic that can be done right now, 2. To even grant free speech protections to propaganda designed to further Russia's totalitarian interests such as dismantling free speech itself is ironic and frankly counter-productive.

No, we absolutely don't need to actively help Russia in its wars by allowing the presence of any Russo-fascist propaganda. Besides that, allowing their propaganda to spread would also violate the "no politics" rules established by online places.
Post edited April 01, 2025 by PookaMustard
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PookaMustard: education is a long-term luxury you can't have right now
Education is a right.

Can we also talk about Israeli fascism? Or is Russian fascism the only fascism acceptable to denounce on this forum?
Post edited April 01, 2025 by lupineshadow
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lupineshadow: Can we also talk about Israeli fascism?
Oh, did you find some history revisionist Israeli propaganda mods for Kingdom Come 2 linked to on this forum?

That's impressive.
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JakobFel: That's our biggest problem in the world today. Too many overly-sensitive people who think that free speech only applies to "accepted speech".
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Vainamoinen: Really? I thought it's people lacking even the basic empathy to understand what a shitty, hostile, and xenophobic place their country has become thanks to an absolute concept of free speech.

No ... I don't think we need free speech for russo-fascist propaganda. And that's not just because we'd be supporting history revisionism, rampant homophobia, horrid conspiracy nonsense, far reaching censorship and – drumroll – genocide.

It's because the extreme, the outrageous, the disruptive idea will always dominate and hence destroy the public discourse. These ideas can not be ignored. That is literally a psychological impossibility.
Last I checked, at least in the States, the free speech isn't conditional. This ain't Pirates of the Caribbean, the constitution isn't a set of guidelines: it's literally the law of the land. We lasted close to three centuries before people started getting all whiny. Used to be, if someone said something you dislike, you ignore that person and move on with your life instead of seething all day because someone triggered you.

I don't know how the law operates in Germany but it's not worth trading freedom just so some people don't get offended because those people will always find something new to get offended by, no matter how many restrictions you try to place on free speech.

Again, I'm not arguing for or against the mods (even if the latter two OP lists are perfectly valid), but ultimately, if you can't handle the fact that some people are going to disagree with you, then the internet isn't the place for you... "you", in this sense, referring to people collectively.
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PookaMustard: education is a long-term luxury you can't have right now
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lupineshadow: Education is a right.

Can we also talk about Israeli fascism? Or is Russian fascism the only fascism acceptable to denounce on this forum?
It is a right. It also takes a mighty long time to nurture.
And like Vainamoinen said, there's no Israeli fascism to denounce in this thread. And that's actually a good thing, as much as I'd like to denounce it.
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Dawnsinger: Probably I'm now a Nazi for having said this.
Well at least you can't say you did nazi that one coming :)

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JakobFel: ...it's not worth trading freedom just so some people don't get offended because those people will always find something new to get offended by, no matter how many restrictions you try to place on free speech.
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JakobFel: Again, I'm not arguing for or against the mods (even if the latter two OP lists are perfectly valid), but ultimately, if you can't handle the fact that some people are going to disagree with you, then the internet isn't the place for you...
*163rd post best post*
Post edited April 01, 2025 by FarkOfDoge