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General discussionThe reason behind Gog´s recent awful decisions(85 posts)(85 posts)
(85 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted September 25, 2021
low rated
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Krogan32: Corporations aren't people dude. They have a legal responsibility to maximize their profits for their shareholders. If the CEO's don't accomplish their goal, and are actively found to violate those requirements, they could be held legally responsible and sued into oblivion.
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richlind33: Corporations ARE people -- literally, and legally -- and the entire point of their existence is the limitation of liability, which raises an interesting question: what happens when people are shielded from the consequences of their behavior?
You clearly don't have a clue as to what you're talking about.
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Krogan32: Except none of their recent games have even attempted that. So, as I've stated a multitude of times, you are engaging in fear mongering and hysteria.
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Zrevnur: This is based on evidence. For the too-lazy to check it in the link here I have added 3 images from https://www.cdprojekt.com/en/wp-content/uploads-en/2021/03/cd-projekt-group-strategy-update-1.pdf: Its made abundantly clear that a notable goal for CDPR games is "online online online".
On page 24 (3rd image) it directly says:

Online gaming
is essential to
grow all our
franchises
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Zrevnur:
You claimed this would include microtransactions. Microtransactions were not stated at all in their presentation. "Online" can mean anything from more interaction with the Galaxy system (which they are developing with Galaxy 2), more multiplayer aspects, anything really. So, my statement about you still stands: You are engaging in fear mongering and hysteria.
Post edited September 25, 2021 by Krogan32
Posted September 25, 2021
low rated
srzzzzly, OP.
you're shitting on GOG just to cheerlead for CCP China? where Gacha games and their shameless DRM and gambling mechanics rule? and before that , one of the biggest money makers for WoW and "farming accounts"???
Posted September 25, 2021
high rated
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Zrevnur: This is based on evidence. For the too-lazy to check it in the link here I have added 3 images from https://www.cdprojekt.com/en/wp-content/uploads-en/2021/03/cd-projekt-group-strategy-update-1.pdf: Its made abundantly clear that a notable goal for CDPR games is "online online online".
On page 24 (3rd image) it directly says:
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Krogan32: You claimed this would include microtransactions. Microtransactions were not stated at all in their presentation. "Online" can mean anything from more interaction with the Galaxy system (which they are developing with Galaxy 2), more multiplayer aspects, anything really. So, my statement about you still stands: You are engaging in fear mongering and hysteria.
The microtransactions "presumption" part is also based on evidence: There is already one online game by CDPR on GOG: GWENT. It has microtransactions. So while this is not proof (which I didnt claim) the evidence clearly suggests it.
Posted September 25, 2021
high rated
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Krogan32: You claimed this would include microtransactions. Microtransactions were not stated at all in their presentation. "Online" can mean anything from more interaction with the Galaxy system (which they are developing with Galaxy 2), more multiplayer aspects, anything really. So, my statement about you still stands: You are engaging in fear mongering and hysteria.
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Zrevnur: The microtransactions "presumption" part is also based on evidence: There is already one online game by CDPR on GOG: GWENT. It has microtransactions. So while this is not proof (which I didnt claim) the evidence clearly suggests it.
Some more evidence for CDPR desiring microtransactions - direct statement by Adam Kicinski:
page 10 on https://www.cdprojekt.com/en/wp-content/uploads-en/2020/09/conf-call-h1-2020_en.pdf

The same is true for microtransactions: you can
expect them, of course, and CP is a great setting for selling things, but it won’t be aggressive;
it won’t upset gamers but it’ll make them happy – that’s our goal at least.
Feel free to read the rest for more context.
Posted September 26, 2021
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tag+: Zrevnur - Provides some data. I'd like to know her/his opinion based on that
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Zrevnur: I can give my opinion on a potential reason for the DRM creep:

The situation:

1) CDPR wants to go "online online online" with their future games and integrate "online online" into their existing ones. Presumably this will include microtransactions. This requires DRM.

2) One of the strategic goals for GOG is to support CDPR games. Presumably this is exactly this "online online" stuff with Galaxy.

3) GOG has/had its DRM free philosophy.

Those 3 points dont work together. So one has to yield. As CDPR is the cash cow and GOG is not point 3 is the weakest. So #3 has to go. The current DRM creep is for figuring out how big the user base resistance is and to erode it.

This plan/vision has the weakness that GOG is very small so CDPR games on Steam (etc) are not properly part of the plan unless they somehow bundle Galaxy there too or something. And only selling on GOG doesnt seem to work out well - see the failure to limit Thronebreaker(?) to GOG. So their push for more GOG market share may also be related to that.

More on this including links and quotes: https://www.gog.com/forum/general/boycotting_gog_2021/post2379
Thanks Zrevnur. Totally agree on that theory, microtransactions are the wet dream.
Nothing better than slaves you can milk anytime, track & monitor.
Everything ,,in pursue to improve your gaming experience,,
Sad
Posted September 26, 2021
low rated
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Krogan32: You claimed this would include microtransactions. Microtransactions were not stated at all in their presentation. "Online" can mean anything from more interaction with the Galaxy system (which they are developing with Galaxy 2), more multiplayer aspects, anything really. So, my statement about you still stands: You are engaging in fear mongering and hysteria.
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Zrevnur: The microtransactions "presumption" part is also based on evidence: There is already one online game by CDPR on GOG: GWENT. It has microtransactions. So while this is not proof (which I didnt claim) the evidence clearly suggests it.
GWENT is a multiplayer card game. Card game requires card pack purchases, especially considering GWENT is free and the funding is used to keep the servers running. There is a single player version of GWENT that doesn't have microtransactions. So, your point is moot.
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Zrevnur: The microtransactions "presumption" part is also based on evidence: There is already one online game by CDPR on GOG: GWENT. It has microtransactions. So while this is not proof (which I didnt claim) the evidence clearly suggests it.
avatar
Zrevnur: Some more evidence for CDPR desiring microtransactions - direct statement by Adam Kicinski:
page 10 on https://www.cdprojekt.com/en/wp-content/uploads-en/2020/09/conf-call-h1-2020_en.pdf

The same is true for microtransactions: you can
expect them, of course, and CP is a great setting for selling things, but it won’t be aggressive;
it won’t upset gamers but it’ll make them happy – that’s our goal at least.
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Zrevnur: Feel free to read the rest for more context.
<Looks at Cyberpunk 2077> Nope... no microtransactions there. Considering that it takes a ton of years for CDPR to get one of their games out, it'll be 2030 before Witcher 4 comes out. So, maybe you're right at that point... but I highly doubt it.
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Zrevnur: I can give my opinion on a potential reason for the DRM creep:

The situation:

1) CDPR wants to go "online online online" with their future games and integrate "online online" into their existing ones. Presumably this will include microtransactions. This requires DRM.

2) One of the strategic goals for GOG is to support CDPR games. Presumably this is exactly this "online online" stuff with Galaxy.

3) GOG has/had its DRM free philosophy.

Those 3 points dont work together. So one has to yield. As CDPR is the cash cow and GOG is not point 3 is the weakest. So #3 has to go. The current DRM creep is for figuring out how big the user base resistance is and to erode it.

This plan/vision has the weakness that GOG is very small so CDPR games on Steam (etc) are not properly part of the plan unless they somehow bundle Galaxy there too or something. And only selling on GOG doesnt seem to work out well - see the failure to limit Thronebreaker(?) to GOG. So their push for more GOG market share may also be related to that.

More on this including links and quotes: https://www.gog.com/forum/general/boycotting_gog_2021/post2379
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tag+: Thanks Zrevnur. Totally agree on that theory, microtransactions are the wet dream.
Nothing better than slaves you can milk anytime, track & monitor.
Everything ,,in pursue to improve your gaming experience,,
Sad
Fearmongering & hysteria. Typical for you and your ilk.
Post edited September 26, 2021 by Krogan32
Posted September 26, 2021
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richlind33: Corporations ARE people -- literally, and legally -- and the entire point of their existence is the limitation of liability, which raises an interesting question: what happens when people are shielded from the consequences of their behavior?
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StingingVelvet: Well then the debate should be whether they should be considered that legally. The debate is not "should corporations try and make money above all else?" That is not a debate, it is factually the reason they exist, and their only goal. As said above if they waver from this goal, CEOs are replaced.
If something of fundamental significance to all members of a society cannot be debated, what do you think the likelihood is that democracy is anything more than a flimsy pretense?
Posted September 26, 2021
Who is this GOG's current CEO person?!
Posted September 26, 2021
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Zrevnur: The microtransactions "presumption" part is also based on evidence: There is already one online game by CDPR on GOG: GWENT. It has microtransactions. So while this is not proof (which I didnt claim) the evidence clearly suggests it.
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Krogan32: GWENT is a multiplayer card game. Card game requires card pack purchases, especially considering GWENT is free and the funding is used to keep the servers running. There is a single player version of GWENT that doesn't have microtransactions. So, your point is moot.
No, multiplayer card games do not require card game purchases. They also dont require servers any more than many other online games. And other online games also have those server costs if they use those centralized servers. Its an intentional design choice to make use of DRMed centralized servers to monetize the game. And it sets a precedence for microtransactioned games on GOG. So no - my point is not moot - this is clearly evidence of CDPR being interested in microtransaction based game monetization.
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Zrevnur: Some more evidence for CDPR desiring microtransactions - direct statement by Adam Kicinski:
page 10 on https://www.cdprojekt.com/en/wp-content/uploads-en/2020/09/conf-call-h1-2020_en.pdf

Feel free to read the rest for more context.
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Krogan32: <Looks at Cyberpunk 2077> Nope... no microtransactions there. Considering that it takes a ton of years for CDPR to get one of their games out, it'll be 2030 before Witcher 4 comes out. So, maybe you're right at that point... but I highly doubt it.
Maybe look again at image #1 https://www.gog.com/upload/forum/2021/09/0d425efd75dae66d0c678d5b03250fdd77d35d77.png ? It says 'Online experience' is in the pipeline for Cyberpunk.
And the game development speed for CDPR was a lot faster than 9 years in the past. And they increased their development efforts/costs a lot "recently". So based on that the next big thing should be out a lot earlier than 2030.

And your doubt is based on what? You dont trust what Adam Kicinski is saying?
Posted September 26, 2021
low rated
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richlind33: If something of fundamental significance to all members of a society cannot be debated, what do you think the likelihood is that democracy is anything more than a flimsy pretense?
Water is wet so therefore the water is dry party gets no votes and democracy is dead. Sure.
Posted September 26, 2021
Personally I think a lot of you are overstating the problem. It's not like companies don't know what GOG is all about - they're acutely aware. In fact, GOG has partnerships with many publishers and game studios - big and small. Their partnerships and catalogue of games is why GOG is Steam's biggest competitor.

Hitman's publisher, IO, know what GOG is all about. They've published their older Hitman games on GOG DRM-free, no problem. The failing here lies 50% with IO and 50% with GOG - it lies with IO for not making an offline version of their game for GOG, and with GOG for bending the definition of DRM. It goes without saying that the current release is counter to the GOG philosophy and if IO refuse to create a true offline and DRM-free version of their game, then GOG need to pull it from sale.

But this isn't some sinister plot from GOG to abandon their stance on DRM to better take on Steam or something - as others have said, if they wanted to do that we'd have seen some half-DRM Deathloop on here. This was about GOG and IO wanting to bring the next Hitman release to GOG. That's fine in and of itself; it's how they did it that is the problem.
Post edited September 26, 2021 by RetroActiveGM
Posted September 26, 2021
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RetroActiveGM: Personally I think a lot of you are overstating the problem. It's not like companies don't know what GOG is all about - they're acutely aware. In fact, GOG has partnerships with many publishers and game studios - big and small. Their partnerships and catalogue of games is why GOG is Steam's biggest competitor.

Hitman's publisher, IO, know what GOG is all about. They've published their older Hitman games on GOG DRM-free, no problem. The failing here lies 50% with IO and 50% with GOG - it lies with IO for not making an offline version of their game for GOG, and with GOG for bending the definition of DRM. It goes without saying that the current release is counter to the GOG philosophy and if IO refuse to create a true offline and DRM-free version of their game, then GOG need to pull it from sale.

But this isn't some sinister plot from GOG to abandon their stance on DRM to better take on Steam or something - as others have said, if they wanted to do that we've have seen some half-DRM Deathloop on here. This was about GOG and IO wanting to bring the next Hitman release to GOG. That's fine in and of itself. It's how they did it that is the problem.
More or less that's how I see it

There were other tricky releases in GOG in the near past. Games Like Deus Ex Mankind or No Man's Sky. The original responses were critizisms, probably legit, but also the classic conspiracy or lore of a slow change in srategy about DRM. The matter is that eventually they were fixed in a way or another, and nothing changed in that regard about obscure interests

With the Hitman Release we will see and time will tell, but I think that the things could be similar

So I agree. I suspect that mere mistakes are being perceived as a willing pseudoconspiracy for the self destruction of the DRM Free
Post edited September 26, 2021 by Gudadantza
Posted September 26, 2021
low rated
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Krogan32: GWENT is a multiplayer card game. Card game requires card pack purchases, especially considering GWENT is free and the funding is used to keep the servers running. There is a single player version of GWENT that doesn't have microtransactions. So, your point is moot.
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Zrevnur: No, multiplayer card games do not require card game purchases. They also dont require servers any more than many other online games. And other online games also have those server costs if they use those centralized servers. Its an intentional design choice to make use of DRMed centralized servers to monetize the game. And it sets a precedence for microtransactioned games on GOG. So no - my point is not moot - this is clearly evidence of CDPR being interested in microtransaction based game monetization.
Then enjoy playing with yourself and maybe two others for the rest of your life. However, if you ever chose to enter into the late 20th century and beyond, then you might actually enjoy playing with a huge number of other individuals.

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Krogan32: <Looks at Cyberpunk 2077> Nope... no microtransactions there. Considering that it takes a ton of years for CDPR to get one of their games out, it'll be 2030 before Witcher 4 comes out. So, maybe you're right at that point... but I highly doubt it.
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Zrevnur: Maybe look again at image #1 https://www.gog.com/upload/forum/2021/09/0d425efd75dae66d0c678d5b03250fdd77d35d77.png ? It says 'Online experience' is in the pipeline for Cyberpunk.
And the game development speed for CDPR was a lot faster than 9 years in the past. And they increased their development efforts/costs a lot "recently". So based on that the next big thing should be out a lot earlier than 2030.

And your doubt is based on what? You dont trust what Adam Kicinski is saying?
Nowhere does it say microtransactions. Again, you are engaging in fear mongering and hysteria.
Posted September 26, 2021
high rated
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Zrevnur: Some more evidence for CDPR desiring microtransactions - direct statement by Adam Kicinski:
page 10 on https://www.cdprojekt.com/en/wp-content/uploads-en/2020/09/conf-call-h1-2020_en.pdf

Feel free to read the rest for more context.
avatar
Krogan32: <Looks at Cyberpunk 2077> Nope... no microtransactions there. Considering that it takes a ton of years for CDPR to get one of their games out, it'll be 2030 before Witcher 4 comes out. So, maybe you're right at that point... but I highly doubt it.
CDPR had been/are planning to introduce microtransactions into an online multiplayer version of Cyberpunk, which is yet to be released. Adam Kicinski has directly said that, which is the quote Zrevnur is referring to. It seems to be another clear piece of evidence that CDPR is leaning more and more towards DRM (which fits the pattern we are obviously seeing in the past year).

It's rather hilarious to see the extent to which you are bending over backwards to defend the indefensible. It's obvious that you are a blinkered GOG/CDPR fanboy that will do/say anything, deny any inconvenient facts, to defend them.

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Krogan32: GWENT is a multiplayer card game. Card game requires card pack purchases, especially considering GWENT is free and the funding is used to keep the servers running. There is a single player version of GWENT that doesn't have microtransactions. So, your point is moot.
You are missing the point here. Even if it is true that GWENT requires online DRM by the nature of the model they have adopted for the game, does that justify it's presence on GOG (which markets itself as a DRM-free store)? GWENT should not be on GOG, period. It's presence on GOG is highly cynical and hipocritical.

It does not follow from 'GWENT requires DRM by its nature' that 'GWENT should be present on GOG'.
Post edited September 26, 2021 by Time4Tea
Posted September 26, 2021
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Krogan32: <Looks at Cyberpunk 2077> Nope... no microtransactions there. Considering that it takes a ton of years for CDPR to get one of their games out, it'll be 2030 before Witcher 4 comes out. So, maybe you're right at that point... but I highly doubt it.
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Time4Tea: CDPR had been/are planning to introduce microtransactions into an online multiplayer version of Cyberpunk, which is yet to be released. Adam Kicinski has directly said that, which is the quote Zrevnur is referring to. It seems to be another clear piece of evidence that CDPR is leaning more and more towards DRM (which fits the pattern we are obviously seeing in the past year).

It's rather hilarious to see the extent to which you are bending over backwards to defend the indefensible. It's obvious that you are a blinkered GOG/CDPR fanboy that will do/say anything, deny any inconvenient facts, to defend them.
Nowhere did he say that CP2077 would have microtransactions. You're making stuff up to further your hysteria and fear mongering.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionThe reason behind Gog´s recent awful decisions(85 posts)(85 posts)
(85 posts)