Posted January 21, 2016
What. About. The. Robbery.
sunshinecorp
Ordained Dudeist
Registered: Jul 2011
From Greece
zeogold
The Puzzlemaster
Registered: Dec 2012
From United States
Posted January 21, 2016
I was WONDERING when you'd show up!
QUICKLY, BAILIFF! HOLD THE DEFENDANT DOWN!
Endre Whitemane, we're holding you on suspicion of murder in the first degree!
True, you might not be guilty of robbery, but you ain't out of the woods yet.
Either way, this case is closed. We'll leave him to be dealt with by a higher court.
COURT IS NOW ADJOURNED!
Post edited January 21, 2016 by zeogold
zeogold
The Puzzlemaster
Registered: Dec 2012
From United States
Posted January 21, 2016
*****EPILOGUE*****
After being faced with the discovery of his wife, Endre Whitemane broke down and confessed. Two weeks before he had been arrested dragging Jeremy Oak's body, Endre had an extreme domestic quarrel, snapped, and killed his wife. He dumped the body into the well and made up the story about her running off with a salesman. Since she had no family and few friends, everybody readily believed this tale.
On the night of the robbery, Mr. Whitemane was in the laundry room when he happened to look out his window. By the light of the full moon, he could see a man drag a body into the field, dumping it only a few dozen yards from the well. Fearing that the man's body was bound to be discovered, Endre panicked. He knew that once the body was found, the police would make a thorough search and find Doris in the process.
He had no choice. He had to move the body. If it were found anywhere else, the police would have no reason to scour this field, and Doris could rest in bloody, beaten peace. Unfortunately for him, the county workers saw him in the moonlight just as he began to drag the burglar's body to his car. IT was, of course, preferable to be convicted of bank robbery than of murder, so Whitemane said nothing to incriminate himself.
In his confession, he described the bank robber's getaway car and the man he saw depositing the body in the field. Jeremy Oak's cousin was soon arrested on robbery charges.
After being faced with the discovery of his wife, Endre Whitemane broke down and confessed. Two weeks before he had been arrested dragging Jeremy Oak's body, Endre had an extreme domestic quarrel, snapped, and killed his wife. He dumped the body into the well and made up the story about her running off with a salesman. Since she had no family and few friends, everybody readily believed this tale.
On the night of the robbery, Mr. Whitemane was in the laundry room when he happened to look out his window. By the light of the full moon, he could see a man drag a body into the field, dumping it only a few dozen yards from the well. Fearing that the man's body was bound to be discovered, Endre panicked. He knew that once the body was found, the police would make a thorough search and find Doris in the process.
He had no choice. He had to move the body. If it were found anywhere else, the police would have no reason to scour this field, and Doris could rest in bloody, beaten peace. Unfortunately for him, the county workers saw him in the moonlight just as he began to drag the burglar's body to his car. IT was, of course, preferable to be convicted of bank robbery than of murder, so Whitemane said nothing to incriminate himself.
In his confession, he described the bank robber's getaway car and the man he saw depositing the body in the field. Jeremy Oak's cousin was soon arrested on robbery charges.
Post edited January 21, 2016 by zeogold
zeogold
The Puzzlemaster
Registered: Dec 2012
From United States
Posted January 21, 2016
*****RESULTS*****
Let's deal with these in the order they arrived.
1. bler144 - "He's not guilty of the robbery charges. The blood in the house was his wife's. Given the timeline there would not have been time to have this body in the house and then drag it out to the field, not to mention clean it up. A GSW to the chest would bleed more than trace, plus the defense lawyer's surprise, helps solidify the notion that the blood in the house is from an early, now cleaned up, crime. I.e. killing his wife. He was attempting to move the body from the field because if it were discovered there a resulting search would not also uncover his wife's body."
This is absolutely perfect. Everything is right on the money. Well done!
2. Habanerose - "Vote: Not Guilty
Reasoning: While there seems to be quite the lack of information, there are some things that rather stuck out to me:
- Mr. Whitemane seemed more preoccupied with telling us about his domestic situation than about this body (which seems rather odd to begin with,
as most people would probably be more concerned about the situation at hand (the dead body) rather than wanting to discuss their private live.
- When the washmachine timer went off, the clothes in the washer were kind of dingy, a if they’d been sitting in dirty water. (As shown by Emachine9643's timeline, it seems rather unlikely that it could be
the clothes from the robbing.)
- The search of the house didn't provide any evidences that could safely incriminate the defendant (major reason being a certain Puzzlemaster, being rather sparse with information, along with the police officers seemingly being not the most competent at their job...
seen as they entered both the house with the defendant and let him enter the laundry room, even if there would be blood from Mr. Oaks, it could have very well ended there after fact. Assuming it was even his, as no further answers to the origin of said blood were given)
- The search of the field only reveilled that the body was dragged from the road to the center of the field, proven by samples of blood and fibers that match Mr.Oaks.
Theory: Mr. Whitemane wasn't part of the robbing, but later that day found the abandoned car and the body of Mr. Oaks. But rather than reporting the crime, he decided against it, because were there to be a thourough investigation, there could
have been a risk of discovering his true crime (yes, rather amazing looking at the sheer imcompetence of the police during this case), the murder of his wife. Which also would explain how he was more preoccupied with convincing the police that
his wife left rather than trying to explain why he was dragging a dead body through his field in the middle of the night. Other hints might be the "unidentified" blood found in the house, as it could have been the result of the murder of his wife,
or just the altercation that lead to her death. (or even just unreleated animal blood, but whatever). Also, Emachine9643's timeline shows how unlikely it is for him to be the second robber, as even if everything was perfectly executed, it would have taken him longer
than said timeline suggests (which even seems further unlikely, as he is just an average, so far law-abiding citizen, and not a professional criminal like Mr. Oaks, and thus would probably have a hard time keeping his calm and formulating a coherent plan).
And assuming he was dragging the body towards the well, I would presume that this is also the final resting place of his wife's remains."
Another perfect guess. I appreciate your thorough reasoning. Excellent work!
3. popperik - "So, the second robber wanted to ditch the wounded / dead robber's body in the well.
Then we have Whitemane, who was trying to wash his clothes after a small kitchen accident, but the washing machine wouldn't work. He tried the kitchen sink, but no water there, so he decides to stroll over to the well on the other side of the field, where he notices the body and decides to carry it home, because he recognises the body as the travelling salesman. Then he gets spotted by the workers, etc..."
(this vote was Not Guilty)
An interesting theory. I like the thought you put into it. Correct verdict, and the reasoning was halfway there. Good job.
4. madth3 - Guilty
Afraid not, pal. I'm curious to know your reasoning though, if you ever get around to it.
5. ZFR - "Reason for not guilty:
Not enough conclusive evidence to convict. It's not the jury's duty to be a detective but for the prosecution to provide enough evidence for a conviction
meta-wise, I'd guess guilty though...
I have a feeling that's what you meant it to be"
Heheheh. You know me too well. Good job!
6. 011284mm - "My not guilty verdict is based on three simple points.
1. The time taken to be between the bank and his house would not have allowed the defendant to park up, get changed, drag the body set the washing machine and then be caught. --- 2. The car has no signs of Mr Oaks, so there would have needed to have been a secondary vehicle in use. Again unless there is a third individual he would have lacked the time. --- 3. The defendant was dragging the body back off the field. He was tampering with evidence, but I cannot say he was a robber. --- Not Guilty."
A clear analysis of the evidence. A solid vote. Well done.
7. agentcarr16 - "Yeah, things just don't add up. The time the laundry was started was too early for him to be robbing the bank, the fact that the car was his and it had no traces of anything weird in it, how the traces of blood weren't nearly enough to have come off the body.
It just doesn't add up when taken in total."
(this vote was Not Guilty)
Good work. You saw the bigger picture clearly.
8. mikopotato - "Reason : There still no hard evidence linking Endre Whitemane to the robbery. We can't put a guy to a cell just with assumption."
(this vote was Not Guilty)
Straight and to the point. Nice job.
9. Emachine9643 - "not guilty
case had no evidence against the defendant for robbery
just some body and he wasn't charged for murder or any kind of charge involving the handling of a body"
Solid reasoning. Your time chart proved extremely useful to the jurors. Commendable, indeed.
10. Austrobogulator - "Not guilty; he has a twin."
Correct verdict, but you were completely off in your reasoning.
11. ashwald - "Not Guilty!
Because I don't see any hard evidence that proves he's involved."
Well done. A lot of the jurors seemed to come to this conclusion. I also liked your fake "guilty" vote. Thanks for jumping in like that once gamefood dropped out, you were a valuable addition to the jury!
12. sunshinecorp - "There was a third robber. The defendant."
(this vote was Guilty)
Nope, I'm afraid not. Interesting to see somebody come from this direction, though.
Getting not only the correct verdict, but the correct answer, and at a remarkable speed (even underneath the Puzzlemaster's Challenge time!) our top juror is bler144! Congratulations!
Habanerose also deserves warm praise, as he beat the Puzzlemaster's Challenge as well, solving the case PERFECTLY in 3 days!
Well done to you both! The Puzzlemaster commends you highly!
Since bler was in for Austrobogulator, the grand prize therefore goes to him. The other prizes will be distributed shortly.
As far as first places goes, I haven't decided yet. It would've easily gone to Habanerose, but he has stated that he does not want a prize. After that, it would've been either sunshinecorp or 011284mm, but both of them have said the same thing. Therefore, I decided to give it to Emachine9643, but he turned it down as well (I really need to get some better prizes). As a result, next choice is ashwald.
Second prize goes to agentcarr16, chosen by a random draw.
Let's deal with these in the order they arrived.
1. bler144 - "He's not guilty of the robbery charges. The blood in the house was his wife's. Given the timeline there would not have been time to have this body in the house and then drag it out to the field, not to mention clean it up. A GSW to the chest would bleed more than trace, plus the defense lawyer's surprise, helps solidify the notion that the blood in the house is from an early, now cleaned up, crime. I.e. killing his wife. He was attempting to move the body from the field because if it were discovered there a resulting search would not also uncover his wife's body."
This is absolutely perfect. Everything is right on the money. Well done!
2. Habanerose - "Vote: Not Guilty
Reasoning: While there seems to be quite the lack of information, there are some things that rather stuck out to me:
- Mr. Whitemane seemed more preoccupied with telling us about his domestic situation than about this body (which seems rather odd to begin with,
as most people would probably be more concerned about the situation at hand (the dead body) rather than wanting to discuss their private live.
- When the washmachine timer went off, the clothes in the washer were kind of dingy, a if they’d been sitting in dirty water. (As shown by Emachine9643's timeline, it seems rather unlikely that it could be
the clothes from the robbing.)
- The search of the house didn't provide any evidences that could safely incriminate the defendant (major reason being a certain Puzzlemaster, being rather sparse with information, along with the police officers seemingly being not the most competent at their job...
seen as they entered both the house with the defendant and let him enter the laundry room, even if there would be blood from Mr. Oaks, it could have very well ended there after fact. Assuming it was even his, as no further answers to the origin of said blood were given)
- The search of the field only reveilled that the body was dragged from the road to the center of the field, proven by samples of blood and fibers that match Mr.Oaks.
Theory: Mr. Whitemane wasn't part of the robbing, but later that day found the abandoned car and the body of Mr. Oaks. But rather than reporting the crime, he decided against it, because were there to be a thourough investigation, there could
have been a risk of discovering his true crime (yes, rather amazing looking at the sheer imcompetence of the police during this case), the murder of his wife. Which also would explain how he was more preoccupied with convincing the police that
his wife left rather than trying to explain why he was dragging a dead body through his field in the middle of the night. Other hints might be the "unidentified" blood found in the house, as it could have been the result of the murder of his wife,
or just the altercation that lead to her death. (or even just unreleated animal blood, but whatever). Also, Emachine9643's timeline shows how unlikely it is for him to be the second robber, as even if everything was perfectly executed, it would have taken him longer
than said timeline suggests (which even seems further unlikely, as he is just an average, so far law-abiding citizen, and not a professional criminal like Mr. Oaks, and thus would probably have a hard time keeping his calm and formulating a coherent plan).
And assuming he was dragging the body towards the well, I would presume that this is also the final resting place of his wife's remains."
Another perfect guess. I appreciate your thorough reasoning. Excellent work!
3. popperik - "So, the second robber wanted to ditch the wounded / dead robber's body in the well.
Then we have Whitemane, who was trying to wash his clothes after a small kitchen accident, but the washing machine wouldn't work. He tried the kitchen sink, but no water there, so he decides to stroll over to the well on the other side of the field, where he notices the body and decides to carry it home, because he recognises the body as the travelling salesman. Then he gets spotted by the workers, etc..."
(this vote was Not Guilty)
An interesting theory. I like the thought you put into it. Correct verdict, and the reasoning was halfway there. Good job.
4. madth3 - Guilty
Afraid not, pal. I'm curious to know your reasoning though, if you ever get around to it.
5. ZFR - "Reason for not guilty:
Not enough conclusive evidence to convict. It's not the jury's duty to be a detective but for the prosecution to provide enough evidence for a conviction
meta-wise, I'd guess guilty though...
I have a feeling that's what you meant it to be"
Heheheh. You know me too well. Good job!
6. 011284mm - "My not guilty verdict is based on three simple points.
1. The time taken to be between the bank and his house would not have allowed the defendant to park up, get changed, drag the body set the washing machine and then be caught. --- 2. The car has no signs of Mr Oaks, so there would have needed to have been a secondary vehicle in use. Again unless there is a third individual he would have lacked the time. --- 3. The defendant was dragging the body back off the field. He was tampering with evidence, but I cannot say he was a robber. --- Not Guilty."
A clear analysis of the evidence. A solid vote. Well done.
7. agentcarr16 - "Yeah, things just don't add up. The time the laundry was started was too early for him to be robbing the bank, the fact that the car was his and it had no traces of anything weird in it, how the traces of blood weren't nearly enough to have come off the body.
It just doesn't add up when taken in total."
(this vote was Not Guilty)
Good work. You saw the bigger picture clearly.
8. mikopotato - "Reason : There still no hard evidence linking Endre Whitemane to the robbery. We can't put a guy to a cell just with assumption."
(this vote was Not Guilty)
Straight and to the point. Nice job.
9. Emachine9643 - "not guilty
case had no evidence against the defendant for robbery
just some body and he wasn't charged for murder or any kind of charge involving the handling of a body"
Solid reasoning. Your time chart proved extremely useful to the jurors. Commendable, indeed.
10. Austrobogulator - "Not guilty; he has a twin."
Correct verdict, but you were completely off in your reasoning.
11. ashwald - "Not Guilty!
Because I don't see any hard evidence that proves he's involved."
Well done. A lot of the jurors seemed to come to this conclusion. I also liked your fake "guilty" vote. Thanks for jumping in like that once gamefood dropped out, you were a valuable addition to the jury!
12. sunshinecorp - "There was a third robber. The defendant."
(this vote was Guilty)
Nope, I'm afraid not. Interesting to see somebody come from this direction, though.
Getting not only the correct verdict, but the correct answer, and at a remarkable speed (even underneath the Puzzlemaster's Challenge time!) our top juror is bler144! Congratulations!
Habanerose also deserves warm praise, as he beat the Puzzlemaster's Challenge as well, solving the case PERFECTLY in 3 days!
Well done to you both! The Puzzlemaster commends you highly!
Since bler was in for Austrobogulator, the grand prize therefore goes to him. The other prizes will be distributed shortly.
As far as first places goes, I haven't decided yet. It would've easily gone to Habanerose, but he has stated that he does not want a prize. After that, it would've been either sunshinecorp or 011284mm, but both of them have said the same thing. Therefore, I decided to give it to Emachine9643, but he turned it down as well (I really need to get some better prizes). As a result, next choice is ashwald.
Second prize goes to agentcarr16, chosen by a random draw.
Post edited January 22, 2016 by zeogold
bler144
μαϊμού
Registered: Dec 2013
From United States
Posted January 21, 2016
Since he was in for Austrobogulator, the prize therefore goes to him.
Errr wait, I mean, to this other guy I know.
zeogold
The Puzzlemaster
Registered: Dec 2012
From United States
Posted January 21, 2016
*****SPECIAL THANKS*****
The Puzzlemaster wishes to extend gratitude to the following people:
- EndreWhiteMane, for his participation and brilliant acting as our defendant
- Austrobogulator for being kind enough to offer up a prize to donate (although he did win it himself, but come on, how often do you see something like this happen?)
- Emachine9643 for his extremely helpful time charts
- ashwald for jumping in on short notice when gamefood couldn't play anymore and for his humorous vote
- bushidoukitsune for acting, also on short notice, as our surprise policeman
- sunshinecorp for his impromptu catering service
And a general thank you to everybody for participating and making it fun!
I'm definitely doing another one of these sometime next month. Anybody got some feedback for me? Things I could improve? Change? Leave the same?
The Puzzlemaster wishes to extend gratitude to the following people:
- EndreWhiteMane, for his participation and brilliant acting as our defendant
- Austrobogulator for being kind enough to offer up a prize to donate (although he did win it himself, but come on, how often do you see something like this happen?)
- Emachine9643 for his extremely helpful time charts
- ashwald for jumping in on short notice when gamefood couldn't play anymore and for his humorous vote
- bushidoukitsune for acting, also on short notice, as our surprise policeman
- sunshinecorp for his impromptu catering service
And a general thank you to everybody for participating and making it fun!
I'm definitely doing another one of these sometime next month. Anybody got some feedback for me? Things I could improve? Change? Leave the same?
Post edited January 21, 2016 by zeogold
Habanerose
Killing is Fun
Registered: Oct 2014
From France
Austrobogulator
~
Registered: Jan 2010
From Australia
Posted January 21, 2016
Thanks, bler :D Also, great job at getting the answer spot on.
Thanks to zeogold for running this. And lasty, I'd like to thank myself for gifting me the prize o_O
About my solution: There was a point where I stopped being invested in this thread D: And I just couldn't bring myself to really sift through the clues / think too hard about the case. The point is, if in doubt, it's twins!
Thanks to zeogold for running this. And lasty, I'd like to thank myself for gifting me the prize o_O
About my solution: There was a point where I stopped being invested in this thread D: And I just couldn't bring myself to really sift through the clues / think too hard about the case. The point is, if in doubt, it's twins!
bler144
μαϊμού
Registered: Dec 2013
From United States
Habanerose
Killing is Fun
Registered: Oct 2014
From France
Posted January 21, 2016
Thanks to everyone who joined along, was actually quite fun :)
And thanks again to Zeogold for being our host and having the whole idea, and both EndreWhiteMane and bushidoukitsune for their performances as defendant and police officer.
zeogold: Since bler was in for Austrobogulator, the grand prize therefore goes to him. The other prizes will be distributed shortly.
As far as first places goes, I haven't decided yet. It would've easily gone to Habanerose, but he has stated that he does not want a prize. Therefore, I'm down to two people, but I want to wait a bit and get a question answered before I choose.
Second prize goes to agentcarr16, chosen by a random draw. Congratz to both Austrobogulator and agentcarr16.
Sidenote: I technically was in for / nominated mikopotato...
Guess that would mean it technically would go to him. But it's your call, don't wanna impose anything...
just keep in mind we might possibly get a naked hula performance by a human Mr Potato Head, depending on your answer :P
And thanks again to Zeogold for being our host and having the whole idea, and both EndreWhiteMane and bushidoukitsune for their performances as defendant and police officer.
As far as first places goes, I haven't decided yet. It would've easily gone to Habanerose, but he has stated that he does not want a prize. Therefore, I'm down to two people, but I want to wait a bit and get a question answered before I choose.
Second prize goes to agentcarr16, chosen by a random draw.
Sidenote: I technically was in for / nominated mikopotato...
Guess that would mean it technically would go to him. But it's your call, don't wanna impose anything...
just keep in mind we might possibly get a naked hula performance by a human Mr Potato Head, depending on your answer :P
Emachine9643
"LOL LOL whazza chiggi chugga - love you people!"
Registered: Jul 2013
From United States
zeogold
The Puzzlemaster
Registered: Dec 2012
From United States
Posted January 21, 2016
And thanks again to Zeogold for being our host and having the whole idea, and both EndreWhiteMane and bushidoukitsune for their performances as defendant and police officer.
As far as first places goes, I haven't decided yet. It would've easily gone to Habanerose, but he has stated that he does not want a prize. Therefore, I'm down to two people, but I want to wait a bit and get a question answered before I choose.
Second prize goes to agentcarr16, chosen by a random draw.
Sidenote: I technically was in for / nominated mikopotato...
Guess that would mean it technically would go to him. But it's your call, don't wanna impose anything...
just keep in mind we might possibly get a naked hula performance by a human Mr Potato Head, depending on your answer :P
Habanerose
Killing is Fun
Registered: Oct 2014
From France
Posted January 21, 2016
Habanero-tan ;)
zeogold: Oops, forgot about that. I would do it, but this prize is more of a reward for the person who participated the most/had the most thoughts/was my favorite/whatever. Tell you what, though, I'll give him a prize just to keep him from dancing. No problem, like I said, didn't want to impose anything, just mentioned it because it seemed like you missed / forget it...
Though there might still be a risk of him dancing (but at least he will keep his clothes on. Hopefully :P )
Though there might still be a risk of him dancing (but at least he will keep his clothes on. Hopefully :P )
Post edited January 21, 2016 by Habanerose
ZFR
I love gold!
Registered: Jan 2010
From Ireland
Posted January 21, 2016
This is absolutely perfect. Everything is right on the money. Well done!
Thanks for the puzzle zeogold. Very well organized.
sunshinecorp
Ordained Dudeist
Registered: Jul 2011
From Greece
Posted January 21, 2016
Yes, yes well done and all that but are you sure we can leave or are the cultists waiting for us?