Posted January 11, 2020
Don't trust him Joe, Lift wants to conflict you
supplementscene
New User
Registered: Nov 2015
From United Kingdom
supplementscene
New User
Registered: Nov 2015
From United Kingdom
Posted January 11, 2020
Libs do not tarnish the purity of Joe's Liberalness with the unknown probably fascist Lift.
ZFR
I love gold!
Registered: Jan 2010
From Ireland
Lifthrasil
Bring the GOG-Downloader back!
Registered: Apr 2011
From Germany
Posted January 11, 2020
Hmm. The way the (probably fascist) Scene throws a scene about me tells me that I must be doing something right. He seems to be quite afraid - and at this point of the game, at 3-0, only the Fascists have a reason to be that afraid and worked up.
Honestly, I don't care much whether I'm the one helping to pass the next L policy or whether ZFR does it. I only wonder why Scene prefers ZFR so much to me. Both of us would be paired with Joe. I don't think that ZFR is regular Fascist. But, as I said before, he might be Hitler. Hitler always acts very Liberal. So maybe Scene wants ZFR to gain even more Liberal cred, so that he stays eligible as Chancellor?
But frankly, at this point that is speculation and isn't that important yet. It's not yet important whether a real Liberal passes the next L or whether Hitler is forced to pass the 4-th L. We just have to keep in mind that any super-liberal player might be Hitler, in case that we ever reach the 3F stage in this game. But at the moment we're at 0F. So everyone can decide on their own whether they want to test me or proceed directly to ZFR.
Honestly, I don't care much whether I'm the one helping to pass the next L policy or whether ZFR does it. I only wonder why Scene prefers ZFR so much to me. Both of us would be paired with Joe. I don't think that ZFR is regular Fascist. But, as I said before, he might be Hitler. Hitler always acts very Liberal. So maybe Scene wants ZFR to gain even more Liberal cred, so that he stays eligible as Chancellor?
But frankly, at this point that is speculation and isn't that important yet. It's not yet important whether a real Liberal passes the next L or whether Hitler is forced to pass the 4-th L. We just have to keep in mind that any super-liberal player might be Hitler, in case that we ever reach the 3F stage in this game. But at the moment we're at 0F. So everyone can decide on their own whether they want to test me or proceed directly to ZFR.
GamezRanker
Flock off Seagulls
Registered: Sep 2010
From United States
Posted January 11, 2020
(Also was gonna make a stratego joke and link the robot chicken skit here but I cannot fun it on YT, sadly)
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As long as Joe gets passed at least 1 Liberal card we should be fine. Also can't we check the cards reported(that lift and joe say they got/passed/discarded/etc) via the next election's card counts/etc?
ZFR
I love gold!
Registered: Jan 2010
From Ireland
Posted January 11, 2020
Unfortunately you do seem fascist to me... Not because of anything you've done, but because of what other did/didn't do.
For the purpose of the above discussion, I'll introduce the following acronym:
LH = Liberal/Hitler. As you noted, in the beginning of the game Hitler has to behave super-liberal, so to make discussion easier I'll use LH to mean a player who's very liberal but could be Hitler.
So:
Joe has to be LH. I don't see a fascist play the way he did: pass me L & F cards which helped confirm me. If he were fascist he'd either want to pass a fascist policy to help him win, or pass a liberal policy to make himself appear liberal. However in the latter case why would he choose me instead of a fellow fascist. If he was planning to make himself appear liberal, why not choose a fellow fascist and clear two birds with one policy. There is of course also the option that he planned to pass a fascist policy but got LLF. In that case however why help confirm me by giving me LF: he would have passed me LL so I don't get confirmed and he could gain some lib points along the way.
There is WIFOM of course: he could do all he did precisely because he wanted me to think him liberal. But why go all that trouble just to get my approval. He's not getting any extra lib points from any of you beyond the normal lib points for passing a liberal policy.
Sorry, no matter how I look at it I just don't see regular fascist Joe selecting me and passing me FL.
I don't see one of RW-GR being a regular fascist either. I don't see them as F-L pair. If that was the case, the fascist in them would know that the next government most likely would be Joe+Me (L+LH) and very likely to pass a 4th L policy bringing them to extreme danger zone at 4-0. That's why they can't be F-L pair, nor even F-F pair. In any of those cases they'd know they have to ACT NOW before 4-0. I see them most likely as LH-LH pair. (*Exception at end of post).
To be honest, the fact that RW voted NO for me made me think him scum, but then they passed a 3rd L policy.
Scene, despite all his actions, seems as our normal liberal scene. It surprises me that you don't see him as such, you played a lot with him, you should know his style. The fact that you continuosly pick on him makes me think you mroe likely to be scum.
Which brings us to the last trio, which by process of elimination must have the Fs in them: you, micro and RedFire. Although it's possible that micro and RedFire are the Fs, I find it unlikely: both are quite. It's my experience with SH that the more "boring" liberal roles tend to make people talk less. I could be wrong. My gut says the Fs are you and RedFire with one of the LHs (or micro) being H.
*And now for the Exception: I said that RW-GR cannot be an F-L or even F-F pair. But they can very well be F-H pair. Especially if GR is the H.
In this scenario, RW knew he had to choose GR so as not to look suspicious and then had to pass the third liberal policy (as a consolation he was super-libbing Hitler).
It would also explain why RW voted know. He's an intelligent player with enough foresight to see that if Joe+me government passed the next logical steps would be him+GR then again myself+Joe, all of which would have to pass a lib policy. He tried to stop it and voted NO.
I stand by my conclusions: one of those theories *has* to be true: either Lift is scum, or RW+GR are F-H pair. Or both.
For the purpose of the above discussion, I'll introduce the following acronym:
LH = Liberal/Hitler. As you noted, in the beginning of the game Hitler has to behave super-liberal, so to make discussion easier I'll use LH to mean a player who's very liberal but could be Hitler.
So:
Joe has to be LH. I don't see a fascist play the way he did: pass me L & F cards which helped confirm me. If he were fascist he'd either want to pass a fascist policy to help him win, or pass a liberal policy to make himself appear liberal. However in the latter case why would he choose me instead of a fellow fascist. If he was planning to make himself appear liberal, why not choose a fellow fascist and clear two birds with one policy. There is of course also the option that he planned to pass a fascist policy but got LLF. In that case however why help confirm me by giving me LF: he would have passed me LL so I don't get confirmed and he could gain some lib points along the way.
There is WIFOM of course: he could do all he did precisely because he wanted me to think him liberal. But why go all that trouble just to get my approval. He's not getting any extra lib points from any of you beyond the normal lib points for passing a liberal policy.
Sorry, no matter how I look at it I just don't see regular fascist Joe selecting me and passing me FL.
I don't see one of RW-GR being a regular fascist either. I don't see them as F-L pair. If that was the case, the fascist in them would know that the next government most likely would be Joe+Me (L+LH) and very likely to pass a 4th L policy bringing them to extreme danger zone at 4-0. That's why they can't be F-L pair, nor even F-F pair. In any of those cases they'd know they have to ACT NOW before 4-0. I see them most likely as LH-LH pair. (*Exception at end of post).
To be honest, the fact that RW voted NO for me made me think him scum, but then they passed a 3rd L policy.
Scene, despite all his actions, seems as our normal liberal scene. It surprises me that you don't see him as such, you played a lot with him, you should know his style. The fact that you continuosly pick on him makes me think you mroe likely to be scum.
Which brings us to the last trio, which by process of elimination must have the Fs in them: you, micro and RedFire. Although it's possible that micro and RedFire are the Fs, I find it unlikely: both are quite. It's my experience with SH that the more "boring" liberal roles tend to make people talk less. I could be wrong. My gut says the Fs are you and RedFire with one of the LHs (or micro) being H.
*And now for the Exception: I said that RW-GR cannot be an F-L or even F-F pair. But they can very well be F-H pair. Especially if GR is the H.
In this scenario, RW knew he had to choose GR so as not to look suspicious and then had to pass the third liberal policy (as a consolation he was super-libbing Hitler).
It would also explain why RW voted know. He's an intelligent player with enough foresight to see that if Joe+me government passed the next logical steps would be him+GR then again myself+Joe, all of which would have to pass a lib policy. He tried to stop it and voted NO.
I stand by my conclusions: one of those theories *has* to be true: either Lift is scum, or RW+GR are F-H pair. Or both.
GamezRanker
Flock off Seagulls
Registered: Sep 2010
From United States
Posted January 11, 2020
I would rue the day if I were Hitler(or even Fascist)...with my track record it'd be essentially handing the liberals(in such a game) a win on a silver platter due to my lack of integration with said games and my usual play style.
ZFR
I love gold!
Registered: Jan 2010
From Ireland
Posted January 11, 2020
^ "both are queit"
GamezRanker
Flock off Seagulls
Registered: Sep 2010
From United States
ZFR
I love gold!
Registered: Jan 2010
From Ireland
Posted January 11, 2020
Sorry, third time lucky:
^ "both are quiet".
^ "both are quiet".
supplementscene
New User
Registered: Nov 2015
From United Kingdom
Posted January 11, 2020
Ahhh so as long as a fascist draws 2 Liberal cards we're sweet? Good to know. Unfortunately if a fascist draws only 1 card a Liberal is likely to end up in conflict. Given the risk Lift might be fascist why would you want that? It would mean Joe and Lift would be frozen.
Now it might turn out that Joe isn't Liberal and Lift is. But right now we know Joe and ZFR played a liberal policy together and didn't conflict. So there is a good chance they might be 2 Liberal players.
supplementscene
New User
Registered: Nov 2015
From United Kingdom
Posted January 11, 2020
Honestly, I don't care much whether I'm the one helping to pass the next L policy or whether ZFR does it. I only wonder why Scene prefers ZFR so much to me. Both of us would be paired with Joe. I don't think that ZFR is regular Fascist. But, as I said before, he might be Hitler. Hitler always acts very Liberal. So maybe Scene wants ZFR to gain even more Liberal cred, so that he stays eligible as Chancellor?
But frankly, at this point that is speculation and isn't that important yet. It's not yet important whether a real Liberal passes the next L or whether Hitler is forced to pass the 4-th L. We just have to keep in mind that any super-liberal player might be Hitler, in case that we ever reach the 3F stage in this game. But at the moment we're at 0F. So everyone can decide on their own whether they want to test me or proceed directly to ZFR.
Now lets suppose you're fascist. If you pick Joe and card conflict him, that freezes a Liberal pair if they're both Liberal. Alternatively you could silent ditch.
The other issue with you playing is it limits knowledge. If Joe/ZFR and Rager/RWarehall are the next 2 governments we can look at how many blues come up from the deck. If it's less than 5 we know there's 90% chance of a drop, if it's less than 3 there's a definite drop and 90% chance of 2 drops. When only 4 people touch the deck we can know - only 4 people could of dropped. If we let you touch the deck then we don't have a clue who dropped. If the next 2 hands claim 3 Fascist Policies, we know it's very likely we have 2 fascists in play and all players in play are soft frozen because it would be 90% chance we freeze 2 fascists.
Now you could well be Liberal but playing style is very different to normal. It makes me think the Fascists might have got bad seats and you're panicking.
RWarehall
Ja'loja!
Registered: Jan 2012
From United States
Posted January 11, 2020
This seems to be a good time to drop me opinions of the proceedings...
I suspect 3 people as more likely to be Fascists than Liberals:
1) Lift - I get the sense that he is trying too hard to appear Liberal. That he really wants to be part of a government. While Liberals knowing their alignment might feel the same way, Fascists and Hitler really really need to get themselves involved in them to win the game. To add to that, I think Lift throws a lot of shade around and the reasons aren't always very strong. I rather convinced he is the Enemy.
2) Scene - I'm less sure, but I distrust anyone trying hard to become part of a government in a game like this should be suspected. I also didn't like the way he tried to get us to switch away from the first government. Which is even more suspect given we have now proven ourselves by passing 2 liberal policies.
3) Trent/RedFireGaming - The weakest of my suspects, but I have to wonder if some of Trent's Meta complaints had to do with drawing Fascist.
I would be very happy if we avoid letting any of these 3 people into government if possible.
I still see people throwing shade at my No vote on Joe's government. I worry about those who voted Yes. My problem with Joe's government is that adding Joe to the Liberal group was not helpful overall. We already had Positions 1 and 3 as tentatively proven Liberals, adding Position 2 didn't help at all for creating a Liberal bloc to cross the board. It also posed the risk of a Fascist Joe discrediting a Liberal ZFR meaning we would have needed to find 2 other Liberals to get from me back to GameRager. It turned out well, but we got lucky it seems.
I suspect 3 people as more likely to be Fascists than Liberals:
1) Lift - I get the sense that he is trying too hard to appear Liberal. That he really wants to be part of a government. While Liberals knowing their alignment might feel the same way, Fascists and Hitler really really need to get themselves involved in them to win the game. To add to that, I think Lift throws a lot of shade around and the reasons aren't always very strong. I rather convinced he is the Enemy.
2) Scene - I'm less sure, but I distrust anyone trying hard to become part of a government in a game like this should be suspected. I also didn't like the way he tried to get us to switch away from the first government. Which is even more suspect given we have now proven ourselves by passing 2 liberal policies.
3) Trent/RedFireGaming - The weakest of my suspects, but I have to wonder if some of Trent's Meta complaints had to do with drawing Fascist.
I would be very happy if we avoid letting any of these 3 people into government if possible.
I still see people throwing shade at my No vote on Joe's government. I worry about those who voted Yes. My problem with Joe's government is that adding Joe to the Liberal group was not helpful overall. We already had Positions 1 and 3 as tentatively proven Liberals, adding Position 2 didn't help at all for creating a Liberal bloc to cross the board. It also posed the risk of a Fascist Joe discrediting a Liberal ZFR meaning we would have needed to find 2 other Liberals to get from me back to GameRager. It turned out well, but we got lucky it seems.
supplementscene
New User
Registered: Nov 2015
From United Kingdom
Posted January 12, 2020
I suspect 3 people as more likely to be Fascists than Liberals:
1) Lift - I get the sense that he is trying too hard to appear Liberal. That he really wants to be part of a government. While Liberals knowing their alignment might feel the same way, Fascists and Hitler really really need to get themselves involved in them to win the game. To add to that, I think Lift throws a lot of shade around and the reasons aren't always very strong. I rather convinced he is the Enemy.
2) Scene - I'm less sure, but I distrust anyone trying hard to become part of a government in a game like this should be suspected. I also didn't like the way he tried to get us to switch away from the first government. Which is even more suspect given we have now proven ourselves by passing 2 liberal policies.
3) Trent/RedFireGaming - The weakest of my suspects, but I have to wonder if some of Trent's Meta complaints had to do with drawing Fascist.
I would be very happy if we avoid letting any of these 3 people into government if possible.
I still see people throwing shade at my No vote on Joe's government. I worry about those who voted Yes. My problem with Joe's government is that adding Joe to the Liberal group was not helpful overall. We already had Positions 1 and 3 as tentatively proven Liberals, adding Position 2 didn't help at all for creating a Liberal bloc to cross the board. It also posed the risk of a Fascist Joe discrediting a Liberal ZFR meaning we would have needed to find 2 other Liberals to get from me back to GameRager. It turned out well, but we got lucky it seems.
I thought the same about Trent. The only thing worth noting is I brought up the idea of meta play and he objected to that. What you might not know is that he said in past Mafia games he wouldn't play games with me in the future.
GamezRanker
Flock off Seagulls
Registered: Sep 2010
From United States
Posted January 12, 2020
Much about this game strikes me as strange, as it's my first game and I am only somewhat competent in regular mafia games as I played them so much.....but i'm learning as I go to fill in the blanks when needed.
It is highly unlikely for a president at this point(afaik) to draw 3F cards, so they'd be more likely to get 2 F cards.....if they(Lift) passed both to Joe then it'd likely be a good idea to suspect Lift.
It is highly unlikely for a president at this point(afaik) to draw 3F cards, so they'd be more likely to get 2 F cards.....if they(Lift) passed both to Joe then it'd likely be a good idea to suspect Lift.