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General discussionSecret Hitler #1: Legend of the Cows(1420 posts)(1420 posts)
(1420 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted May 23, 2018
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ZFR: I'm really curious about your impressions. As Hitler, who did you think your fellow fascists were?
I had my suspicions on you, but a bit late my prime other suspects were RW and adalia. Dedo wasn't on my list really, so kudos to him for that. I was at some point actually thinking that we were near the very end of the list and because of that were locked out early. Which did happen but a bit differently.
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kusumahendra: Congratulations Liberals. Good game everyone

Dang, it's a long one, with lot's of texts. I really enjoy this game at first, but after a while I lack of time to catch up with all discussion and have to speed-read and decide what to do with the situation, so my involvement becomes minimal. Finding time to read becomes hard, and to replaying is even harder because of so many text to consider. Sorry about that

Also since the game has ended, I finally can say my confession. Due to getting disconnected with situation, back when I nominated dedo as my chancellor it was actually Random.org because I just have no idea who should be nominated. I only think about the reason after being asked why :p
Yea, there were lots of walls of text, and unfortunately I don't have time for writing (thinking through) those lately. So I was a bit disconnected near the end from the game (new job etc)
Post edited May 23, 2018 by blotunga
Posted May 23, 2018
And now to some conclusions: even though near the end I didn't had much time to get involved, it was a fun game, I enjoyed trying to guess who is who and even try to fling some fake/genuine poo as if I were a real liberal trying to guess (which I was trying). Unfortunately walls of text is not my thing, nor did I try to overanalize things. Still, I'm proud of the fascist team, we got a lot despite a bit of bad luck near the beginning, since it was 3-0 already when dedo got his turn and then the Brasas presidency was a blunder (I really was hoping dedo confirmed a fascist as liberal, but then Brasas passed the 4th L so I was like: wtf dude, you must be liberal if you help them that much).
Posted May 23, 2018
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Brasas: @Dedo, Zeo says there was no 3F draw but he might have meant for L L teams - but you will know, so did you bury an L?
I most certainly did.

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blotunga: Dedo wasn't on my list really, so kudos to him for that.
That's nothing to brag about. I was supposed to be on your list but the way things went I didn't have the ability :)

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blotunga: (I really was hoping dedo confirmed a fascist as liberal, but then Brasas passed the 4th L so I was like: wtf dude, you must be liberal if you help them that much).
That's the problem. None of the fascists were a popular choice so if I had went against the people a confirmation would have probably only made the investigated person even more suspicious. On the other hand confirming a more wildly assumed liberal with the idea to drag him down because of it upon exposure looked more lucrative to me :) I remember that someone (Lift?) plugged adalia as an alternative which I would have gladly accepted but only if it wasn't my own executive decision but a group one so it's not suspicious.
Posted May 23, 2018
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dedoporno: That's the problem. None of the fascists were a popular choice so if I had went against the people a confirmation would have probably only made the investigated person even more suspicious. On the other hand confirming a more wildly assumed liberal with the idea to drag him down because of it upon exposure looked more lucrative to me :) I remember that someone (Lift?) plugged adalia as an alternative which I would have gladly accepted but only if it wasn't my own executive decision but a group one so it's not suspicious.
Yeah, as much as I wanted you to confirm me I knew that it would probably look odd and might not be bought by the others. I think confirming Brasas and hoping to bring him down or let WIFOM mean people didn't believe it was the best option.

I tried to drop the odd hint to blotunga that I was fascist (by naming him casually as Hitler a couple of times) but I thought it was probably too subtle to pick up on anyway.

I think the best bet for fascists is to get Hitler confirmed as Liberal as much as possible and then have the three fascists pass F policies as soon as possible, but really that's very dependant on the order of players and the cards drawn. Really we didn't have a chance to do that this game.

There were definitely a couple of points where it could have swung the other way though.
Posted May 23, 2018
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Lifthrasil: But yes, for a while I considered testing adalia or ZFR. In the end going with Brasas seemed the better idea. But it was a close call for me.
I believe for the fascist team, you picking Brasas was way better. I wanted you to, but couldn't push for it openly.
There was roughly 8% of picking 2L, 50% chance of picking 1L and 42% of picking FFF.

If you picked Brasas, an FFF would have put us in a really strong position. As I mentioned above, with you and Brasas termlocked, greek would have had a difficult time making a choice. So we had:
58% of losing
42% of being in a decently strong position.

If you picked me or adalia/ZFR then an FFF would have killed us because after that greek picks Brasas and they almost certainly get an L (and even if they don't getting a F-F government to bury the 2 remaining L's would have been difficult). So our only chance was you then getting FFL, ZFR/adalia burying the L (with a conflict with you, and greek) and hoping that greek who picks Brasas in next government won't get an L (50% chance with one L buried).
So we had:
8% of losing
42% chance of probably losing
50% of being in a not-too-good situation - we'd need to survive a 50-50 chance and even then hope for the best.

So our only chance was you picking Brasas and hoping for the 42%.
Post edited May 23, 2018 by ZFR
Posted May 23, 2018
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Lifthrasil: But yes, for a while I considered testing adalia or ZFR. In the end going with Brasas seemed the better idea. But it was a close call for me.
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ZFR: I believe for the fascist team, you picking Brasas was way better. I wanted you to, but couldn't push for it openly.
There was roughly 8% of picking 2L, 50% chance of picking 1L and 42% of picking FFF.

If you picked Brasas, an FFF would have put us in a really strong position. As I mentioned above, with you and Brasas termlocked, greek would have had a difficult time making a choice. So we had:
58% of losing
42% of being in a decently strong position.
I think the same, brasas gave you some chances, that's why I wanted the slower and more conservative approach. If Lift drew FFF, I would want to pick Scene but I am not sure others would agree.
Posted May 23, 2018
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greeklover: If Lift drew FFF, I would want to pick Scene but I am not sure others would agree.
Yup, but I think we could have managed to get enough support for you to abandon this idea. Scene wasn't popular with Lift, and I planned on throwing some doubt that he's Hitler (him not realizing fascists knew each other at the beginning of the game could be because he was Hitler and didn't know his fascist buddies). Plus I hoped someone would think that the reason I put him last on my list of Lift's chancellors is because I didn't want Hitler-scene to be termlocked.

If worst comes to worst I'd have exposed myself taking him with me. Something like pretend to have a meltdown and lash out at scene "you idiot! Are you even paying attention?? I'm on your f-ing team and you're causing us to lose."

Either way, if scene gets tarnished after you nominate him, we could have caused your government to be voted NO and the next presidents were me and dedo. If before, you'd have to pick a different chancellor, and be left with dedo, adalia and maybe blotunga (and myself; if scene got tarnished without me exposing myself). Thankfully RW/ash was last on everyone's list of likely liberals, and kusu was suspected by Brasas of being Hitler, so there was no danger of you picking either of them.
Post edited May 23, 2018 by ZFR
Posted May 23, 2018
GDPR is going to kill me...


I agree Lift - Brasas was not the optimal play, but everyone was at the end of their rope.

No idea if my - slight - distrust of Kusu carried over to others.

Shading Scene to that level would be all sorts of shady. If it came to that - in fact if Lift went conservative and preferred to bench me for Greek - Brasas - I fully intended to ask you and others for a short case on what Scene's lies had been. Exaggeration is one thing he was guilty of, but I felt there was something hollow in the attacks.

@Dedo - you naughty boy


Can't type more. Goodbye world... :P
Posted May 23, 2018
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Brasas: Shading Scene to that level would be all sorts of shady.
Oh of course. But if it came to that, and I pretended to get more and more angry with scene and finally pretend to be insulted at a word he used and go "screw you!!! you've insulted me for the last time. scene is Hitler but I'd rather he loses even if it means I lost to because he's such an f-ing a-le. can't even play properly." (sorry scene!). Of course it looks suspicious. But would you take the risk that I'm just pretending and not genuinely flipped? When there are other "safer" choices, like dedo, besides scene?

Of course it's difficult to say now; it depends on how it would've played out, but I hope I'd have done it convincingly enough to leave you with even a little doubt. Enough to go for someone else.

Also, what if instead of me it was dedo who stood up and went "I'm fascist and scene is my buddy".

Overall, I think if you were passed FFF, we had a good chance to prevent greek-scene.
Posted May 23, 2018
So gentleman what are the chances of another game of this or similar type of game? The late comers get a proper role of the dice that way. Zeo might well be tired of administrating us lot though so I don't know. Either way I've had a great time playing with you guys.

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Brasas: Shading Scene to that level would be all sorts of shady.
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ZFR: Oh of course. But if it came to that, and I pretended to get more and more angry with scene and finally pretend to be insulted at a word he used and go "screw you!!! you've insulted me for the last time. scene is Hitler but I'd rather he loses even if it means I lost to because he's such an f-ing a-le. can't even play properly." (sorry scene!). Of course it looks suspicious. But would you take the risk that I'm just pretending and not genuinely flipped? When there are other "safer" choices, like dedo, besides scene?

Of course it's difficult to say now; it depends on how it would've played out, but I hope I'd have done it convincingly enough to leave you with even a little doubt. Enough to go for someone else.

Also, what if instead of me it was dedo who stood up and went "I'm fascist and scene is my buddy".

Overall, I think if you were passed FFF, we had a good chance to prevent greek-scene.
I don't think it works because I didn't play like Hitler. You'd be accusing Greek of being Hitler one moment and then next minute claiming Scene is on your team and Hitler just before Scene has a chance to get the Chancellorship. If you were Liberal would you buy that a fascist would reveal that at the moment where he may win?

I'm not sure if I actually posted it but I was contemplating the blacklisting of Greek, Lift and perhaps Brasas if a fascist policy was passed because there would be an 80% chance a liberal policy was blocked by one of them and The Greek had vouched for Lift. Now I probably wouldn't have gone that route only because the ZFR, Adalia, RWarehall trident seemed too likely to be scummy alongside the 66% chance that Dedo was scum. Now lets say ZFR and Adalia give no real tells in the first place and aren't divisive, then suddenly they become more likely to be elected. Dedo got his Presidential role because he was a quiet bunny. So were you guys too loud?

I mean it might have fooled people who weren't paying attention but if they were it shouldn't do.

@Adalia I think you should have distanced yourself from ZFR and tried to ally yourself with another Liberal. If you attacked ZFR and RWarehall you could have created an alliance with a newbie like myself and maybe positioned yourself into government that way. If you attacked Brasas alongside the RWarehall/ZFR attacking Brasas while having distance from them it would make your character more believable.

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ZFR: And finally finally finally:
I got a spare key for Heroes of Might and Magic 3 that I wanted to give out as a prize after this game's over. So if any of the participants, or zeo, or Bookwyrm want it, it's theirs. And if more than one does, I'll use random.org (really I will ;)).
Well that's a nice gesture I think Zeo and the observers who made this game possible should definitely be given first option here. But if they and the other players aren't interested I've fancied playing what seems to be a classic that I completely missed out on at the time for a good while. Now given I harrassed you throughout the game I should probably be bottom of the list for this game
Posted May 24, 2018
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ZFR: Thanks to zeo for hosting and Bookwyrm for helping. And zeo, I really loved the flavour you added to this game.

A big thank you to ashwald for covering so late in the game and taking the time to write the whole thread and read a detailed response.

And finally finally:
As I said played Resistance a lot. The one problem with such games is that after some time, you can't help but meta-bring real life into it (making decisions based on what you know about the person in real life). And vice versa: you bring the game to real life. I've seen situations like "He's so earnest saying he didn't do X. But I've seen how convincingly he can lie in Resistance/poker/(insert game here..)" (and personally I really am an honest person and wouldn't like a reputation that I can lie well) and seen my share of genuinely hurt feelings after the game was over. It was partly for this reason that I was reluctant for some time to play mafia here.
So with that in mind, and seeing how the game got intense at times, I hope there is no ill-will between anyone.

And finally finally finally:
I got a spare key for Heroes of Might and Magic 3 that I wanted to give out as a prize after this game's over. So if any of the participants, or zeo, or Bookwyrm want it, it's theirs. And if more than one does, I'll use random.org (really I will ;)).
Glad you liked it! I'm kind of disappointed that you didn't get in any governments. I had a bunch of jive talk ready for the character (basically modeled after Bishop Don Juan).

Funny story about the replacement thing. Before Adalia hopped in to take Cristigale's spot, I was actually struggling bad for a replacement. After becoming desperate, I was actually just about to align on the replacement being Bookwyrm, of all people (he was never given any information on who was who). I was really afraid of how that'd go over, so Adalia and Ashwald really saved us there.

Yeah, I have to admit that Resistance and its derivatives (like Secret Hitler) all seem to involve a lot of what a pal of mine called "character judgement" rather than actual info. It's better in real life where you can sense peoples' tells, reactions, etc. but in text, you're basically doing what you guys did and overanalyzing every little portion of what's said (although, impressively enough, I feel like the liberal team generally sniffed out the fascists somehow, despite only one of them ever being in a government).

I'll pass on the game, but thanks for the offer!
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bler144: I've been too busy to follow in depth, but I will say this game feels much, much harder to casually observe since you never actually "know" anything at any point in the game, not even a single player's alignment or having seen an actual draw. Everything said is subject to being untrue, and that makes it a bit...uninteresting...at least to me, as the game lingered towards a conclusion.
It's actually possible for a future game to list draws made in the observer thread (just not who's who/who's discarding what) to make things more exciting. Can't hurt since nobody in the game sees the observer thread until the end (or until they're dead).
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supplementscene: So gentleman what are the chances of another game of this or similar type of game? The late comers get a proper role of the dice that way. Zeo might well be tired of administrating us lot though so I don't know. Either way I've had a great time playing with you guys.
I'd be interested in hosting again in the future. You guys honestly pretty much run the game yourselves, most of what I'm doing is just the card work (drawing policies, keeping track of votes, keeping track of played policies, etc.).
Post edited May 24, 2018 by zeogold
Posted May 24, 2018
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zeogold: Glad you liked it! I'm kind of disappointed that you didn't get in any governments. I had a bunch of jive talk ready for the character (basically modeled after Bishop Don Juan).
Why... was my character's name the only one not related to my nick?
Posted May 24, 2018
I don't think I would have bought the Scene=Hitler accusation. He made much too much noise and enemies for that. :-)
Posted May 24, 2018
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ZFR: I got a spare key for Heroes of Might and Magic 3 that I wanted to give out as a prize after this game's over. So if any of the participants, or zeo, or Bookwyrm want it, it's theirs. And if more than one does, I'll use random.org (really I will ;)).
I've already got one. The HoMM games were some of my first acquisitions on GOG. Thanks for the offer, though!
Posted May 24, 2018
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zeogold: Glad you liked it! I'm kind of disappointed that you didn't get in any governments. I had a bunch of jive talk ready for the character (basically modeled after Bishop Don Juan).
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ZFR: Why... was my character's name the only one not related to my nick?
I couldn't think of a sufficient name-based joke other than making you some sort of alien with initials ZFR, so I decided to just go with a joke based off the avatar.
Post edited May 24, 2018 by zeogold
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionSecret Hitler #1: Legend of the Cows(1420 posts)(1420 posts)
(1420 posts)