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Wishbone: Also, ScummVM is awesome ;-)
^ this:)
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ZFR: I tried it for the 7th Guest, but it seems that it's not as straightforward. It needs the proper CD images mounted, and I really don't feel like playing around with the files GOG has (the largest is 89 MB; none appear to be the images) to see if I can reconstruct them. :(
Alright, that's a problem. It comes from the fact that ScummVM simply uses the original datafiles and doesn't do any checks for CDs, meaning those files are merely what was originally on the disc.

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ZFR: But just to confirm: if I don't bring up the ScummVM menu, then I can still use the game's original save system normally (including not being able to save if the original game didn't allow it), right?
As far as I know, no. For some games, you can configure ScummVM to use their original save menus, but the save system will still be that of ScummVM itself.
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timppu: Instead, you tell ScummVM where the data files for a supported game is (existing installation, original CD, GOG installation...), and it copies them to the ScummVM.
It doesn't copy them. It just reads them directly from the directory you specified.
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kbnrylaec: DOSbox also can not provide 100% original runtime environment. Only true hardwares do.
That's true, but it's as close as one can get to running these games in their original, unaltered states on modern systems.
Post edited April 01, 2016 by InfraSuperman
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ZFR: I tried it for the 7th Guest, but it seems that it's not as straightforward. It needs the proper CD images mounted, and I really don't feel like playing around with the files GOG has (the largest is 89 MB; none appear to be the images) to see if I can reconstruct them. :(
That's weird. The 7th Guest works fine on mine without anything mounted.

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ZFR: But just to confirm: if I don't bring up the ScummVM menu, then I can still use the game's original save system normally (including not being able to save if the original game didn't allow it), right?
ScummVM doesn't "change the executable" in any sense of changing the core game. In fact, it ignores the original .exe file and just loads the data files. Eg, in Sam & Max Hit The Road, you can delete / move all the .exe's out of the dir and the game runs just fine. All ScummVM does is load the data files directly from wherever you installed the game without touching the original .exe. Any save games it creates are just for ScummVM, but you can continue to play the "vanilla" game in DOSBox without using ScummVM and it'll use whatever original save system was there.

For me, it's better in many games. Eg, graphics and subtitles look less blocky with HQ3X AA setting vs DOSBox, aspect ratio correction, ability to vary the subtitle speed, better save/load dialogue boxes, faster quick save/load (ALT/CTRL 0-9 keys) even in games which never originally had that, better MIDI support, better video / cutscene scaling, easy ability to take screenshot's, Global Main Menu, etc.

There's no real one big thing but rather lots of little things combined, and even then many are optional. Eg, in The Neverhood there's an option to skip the 40-screen Hall of Records storyboard screens. If you don't want that, leave it unticked and it'll play like the original. If you want the "pure" version, play in DOSBox. I haven't noticed any difference at all in any game that made anything worse or less reliable.
Post edited April 01, 2016 by AB2012
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kbnrylaec: Only when you are not running ScummVM.
If you run the game in DOSbox, you can use those original saves.
ScummVM never touch those files, it just read resources files it needed.

Since ScummVM use its own saving system, you can not use those original saves in ScummVM.
So if I use the game's save menu, it's still ScummVM files that are being saved/loaded?

I don't really care about whether the save games are in the original format, or ScummVM's format. My only concern is that I don't want the games to become too easy but adding a save-anytime feature. If a game didn't allow saves, or only allowed saves in certain places, I want to play that way too.

So basically, if I use the game's menu to save, and the game does allow me to save, then I can assume that the original would have allowed me to save in this particular place too (even if it's actually ScummVM doing the saving now)?
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ZFR: I tried it for the 7th Guest, but it seems that it's not as straightforward. It needs the proper CD images mounted, and I really don't feel like playing around with the files GOG has (the largest is 89 MB; none appear to be the images) to see if I can reconstruct them. :(
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AB2012: That's weird. The 7th Guest works fine on mine without anything mounted.
EDIT: when I launch in DOBox, and after getting the sounds to work, I get this "Please insert Disc 1" as soon as I load the game.
Is the disc images somewhere in the GOG files? I couldn't find it if so.
Attachments:
t7g.png (83 Kb)
Post edited April 01, 2016 by ZFR
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ZFR: So basically, if I use the game's menu to save, and the game does allow me to save, then I can assume that the original would have allowed me to save in this particular place too (even if it's actually ScummVM doing the saving now)?
In my experience, yes. I've never noticed much of a change in that regard for the games I've played in it.
Changes/additions like that really depend on the game in question.
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Wishbone: Not sure what you mean by "changing the executables". As far as I know, ScummVM doesn't change any files.
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ZFR: Well on their page they said " The clever part about this: ScummVM just replaces the executables shipped with the games, allowing you to play them on systems for which they were never designed!". I thought it to mean that ScummVM actually changes the executable, as in remove (possible after making a backup of it) the old game.exe and replace with a modified game.exe.
No, not at all. ScummVM just uses the game's asset files and ignores the game's own executable completely. It makes no changes to any of the game's files whatsoever. You can run the same game through both DOSBox and ScummVM from the same folder.
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kbnrylaec: ScummVM usually leave the copy protection as is.
They ONLY remove copy protection when there are official versions that have had removed it.
Hmm, maybe my memory is failing me or then it's just that its been some ten years and a lot of games have been added since, but I thought that at a time there was just one game that didn't have copy protection disabled and then they found an official version of that without copy protection too. So, it wasn't exactly uncommon and I don't think my scummvm library has a single game that still has it on by default. You can turn it back on, though, if you like.
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ZFR: but for each person there is a different line that a minor improvement can cross so that the new game is no longer like the original.
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kbnrylaec: So some retrogamers still hunt down old hardwares to run old games. :-)
DOSbox also can not provide 100% original runtime environment. Only true hardwares do.
I still have all my old PCs from the 90s :). I connect them and use them occasionally to play the old games that I own. Sadly, GOG doesn't offer original installation media, and spending a (relative; compared to GOG prices) fortune on the original CDs just to play that one game on it, is not worth it. And trying to transfer the GOG version to them is not always worth the hassle. Like InfraSuperman, DOSBox is good enough for me.
Btw, is there a Gogmix that lists games using ScummVM?
Sorry to bump this, but I managed to get the GOG version of 7th Guest to run in DOSBox. I'm posting the method here in case anyone would find it helpful too.

_ After installing, open the GROOVIE.INI file and locate the following lines

ProgDir=C:\id\t7g\
DataDir=D:\t7g\

Change both to the folder where you installed the game, as mounted on DOSBox. Remember, that DOS had a maximum 8 character length for directory names, so if you installed it in "The 7th Guest", you'll have to refer to that folder as THE7TH~1.

_ If you get a sound card error message, run install.exe (using DOSBox) and change the sound and music to something that works for you. General MIDI and Sound Blaster worked for me. Running install.exe however seems to change the DataDir path back to its default, so remember to change it again, as explained above.

_ Run t7g.bat to launch the game.
Post edited April 01, 2016 by ZFR
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ZFR: Sorry to bump this, but I managed to get the GOG version of 7th Guest to run in DOSBox...
Thanks for the DOSBox fix! Do you notice any differences running 7th Guest in DOSBox vs. ScummVM?
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ZFR: Sorry to bump this, but I managed to get the GOG version of 7th Guest to run in DOSBox...
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chadjenofsky: Thanks for the DOSBox fix! Do you notice any differences running 7th Guest in DOSBox vs. ScummVM?
From what I noticed (and I didn't play very far using DOSBox), the music during credits during the intro is missing. For the rest of the intro and during the game itself, the music plays normally in DOSBox, and no other differences were present as far as I could see. I decided to go with ScummVM after all.
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ZFR: the music during credits during the intro is missing.
I imagine that's just the Gog's version problem, however.
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phaolo: Btw, is there a Gogmix that lists games using ScummVM?
I was thinking of creating one, but I don't feel like it since GOG does mention which games use ScummVM, unlike DOSBox. It's just not possible to filter by it.
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phaolo: Btw, is there a Gogmix that lists games using ScummVM?
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Grargar: I was thinking of creating one, but I don't feel like it since GOG does mention which games use ScummVM, unlike DOSBox. It's just not possible to filter by it.
Ah, too bad, but thanks anyway.