+1

Not yet, since I'm not done studying for that monsterous exam (I'll breathe easir once it lies slain quite soon).

Tonight I'll probably: slay a few demons, rescue a pack of lost dogs, reunite a spparow mob boss with his daughter, restore a forest -> Okami (video game).

I'll also observe some most amusing mishaps in a heroic quest -> The Black Cauldron (book).

BTW, are you familiar with the concept "attacking the person and not the argument"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
A mistake if this were a logical debate.
But apparently it's not, so we can agree to disagree. :)
Thanks for seeing the humor. :)

This site has some similar jokes.
Link: http://people.bu.edu/wwildman/WeirdWildWeb/jokes_menwomen.htm

Bless you Timppu, you glorious man. Somehow, you managed to toe the line so brilliantly that the actual sexists have taken you seriously and supported you and you've gotten somebody so pissed by it that they actually went to the trouble of breaking down your post. It's 2018, and we've finally reached the point where the forums have gone so downhill that people thought this entire thing was completely unsatirical despite the fact it was from Timppu of all people.
I've only ever dreamed of achieving this level of peak posting and I hope you stay on these forums long after the rest of us are gone.

I think the only true victim here is Fairfox's spellchecker who was clearly KIA.

It's spreading. Should have put down the fox when we had the chance.

Okay, maybe it's an irritation when a female player has to play a male character in order to rescue a female. Kinda like, "If I'm 'manly' enough to play this male character then why would a female need to be rescued anyway?"

On the other hand, who doesn't love The Princess Bride?

Done well, it shouldn't matter. Done poorly over and over again, I guess I can sorta maybe - if I squint hard enough - see how some lady players would get tired of it. But then if those games are meh, why would they be playing them anyway? Or is it just the mere existence that is problematic?

Though that begs the question from me: for you women playing games, what would you like female protagonists to be doing? As in, what sort of games do you want to see women characters taking the lead role? Maybe that's a thread... We'll see how this one goes, first.

For me it depends.

I don't have a problem if the game only has a male character if that fits with its story.
E.g. In "Nier" the plot revolves around a dad trying to save his daughter (Spolier: as is the final boss as his daughter has posessed the human one to keep herself alive).

However, I do count it has a big plus if the game lets you custumize your character, or at least having the option of a male or female character.

As for what the character should/would be doing, that depends on one's intrests.

I mostly play games for the story and my favourite gnere is fantasy.

Give me a good story and I'll be equally happy with a noble character or a thief rising from the gutter. :)

I like how Skyrim gives you tons of options about what you want to do.
- Join sides in a civil war or remin neutral.
- Start an adoptive family if you like.
- Play in any way you want: magic, swords, sneaking it's all in the package.
- Stay "normal" or be a vampire or even a werewolf.

Given that I like anthropomorphic animals I mostly play as a female Kahjit, usualy a thief/mage, werewolf hybrid.
I was somewhat disapointed at how the Thives Guild no longer had the "Robin Hood approach" that it had in Oblivion.
But I'm sure my character will figure out how to put her sneakiness to good use with Inigo by her side (he's the best and most entertining companion ever made in a mod in my opinion).

There's one last point I need to make.

I like to conect video games with imaginiation.
Kinda like reading a good book with a story you know in the back of your mind is ficitonal, but you enjoy it anyway + video games more or less put you in the director's seat.

- Do I like to play as a sneaky character?
Yes, a lot. Would I steal in real life? No!

- Do I like how video game characters can do well in the center of attention and can run outdoors for hours on end?
Yes. but ...
I real life I hate beeing in the spotlight and prefer a background role.
I do enjoy short walks outsides, but I'd fight having to go camping with all fours. XD

I hope I haven't strayed to much into Skyrim and that I've answered your question.

P.S. I've watched The Princess Bride and found it amusing.

That reminds me that even if you drop all the vowels away, people can easily understand the text. I need to test that out:

Tht rmnds m tht vn f drp ll th vcls w, ppl cn sl ndrstnd th txt. nd t tst tht t.



Shit, it didn't work. Maybe it was only in the Finnish language... I don't recall where I read it.

Personally, I find the argument that only a male character would fit a story to be rather suspicious. For example, is there a reason the story wouldn't work if it were a mom trying to save her daughter? I find it hard to believe that the story wouldn't survive a gender swap. (Even a case like Dragon Quest 5 I could see working if the main character would be made female, particularly some suspicious events that happen around the point the main character's wife gets pregnant.)

Eschalon Book 1 I think was a particularly nasty example here; you are, when you start, presented with a character creation screen that has a spot for gender (or is it sex? I don't remember the term used) which is set to male. However, if you try to change it, you are presented with some BS along the lines of "this story only fits a male character". I note that Books 2 and 3, which are continuations of the same plot, do allow you to play as a female character, so this excuse really is BS.

So, no, I don't buy this excuse.

Oh, I'll kill a few innocent villagers to see what will happen, and then reload my save from before it happened. Isn't reloading after murder the most heroic act there is?

No. Not from manly view point at least.

I can't seem to get along with GOG's quoting system no matter what I do.
Please, bear with me.

In response to the first part:

I see I should have expanded on this point.
I'm not familiar with the other examples and I haven't played Nier, I've only got a general idea about its story from Youtube videos and reading about the plot.

Would it work if it were a mom and her daughter? Yes.
Would the mother be presented the same way as Nier? Probably not.
I imagine she would be a magic user or a support character rather than a frontline fighter.

I'm happy with the game as it is.
Nier is the western version of the game (dad-daughter relationship was easier to sell in the west), the Japanese version had a brother-sister relationship.
The developers choose the story to be put into game form the way they did, that's their right and the game does not suffer for it.

The point wasn't about having a male or female lead.
It was about how the shadows the player fought had their own problems and were "human" emotion-wise despite humans thinking they were monsters (the final boss drove the point home by the game telling you that he's another dad trying to save his kid, the same thing the player was trying to do as Nier, especially after the boss' daughter released Nier's telling her father she wants the human girl to be able to live with her dad).

Arguing a "mandatory" gender swap on story basis is somewhat like going to a novel author and saying: "Why didn't you make the male lead a woman?!".
You don't have a problem with the game, you've got a bone to pick with its story.

(I remember seeing a review on GOG, I don't remember which game it was for, but if I remember right its title was "Women beware!" I hurried to read it excepting torture, rape or something else gruesome. Instead, someone complained about the character only being male without a female as an option. I had to laugh because it was a pompous title that made an elephant out of a molehill for no good reason.)

Let's try the opposite example, a game where a gender swap wouldn't work.

The Great Tournament had a mandatory male character.
The plot was that the player's character would go from a squire to a knight.
Sticking to at least a minimal amount of realism makes that impossible for a female.

And there's a scene where your mentor is trying to inspire ill-prepared soldiers for a longer battle and his speech goes along the lines:
"I know you're frightened and that you'd rather be doing something else. I'd much attend a tournament, fuck and drink so much I'd forget what I did by morning.
...
But as we were ordered by the king on this mission, we have to fulfill it.
So: fight for your families, your lives and the life of the man next to you.
Tonight might be the last time you see your home. Take a moment to remember it."

Would that speech work in a different context and not with male farmers turned into soldiers overnight? I doubt it.

I'm not arguing that not having the basic character customization of picking their sex is not a good thing, it is.
And I'm not arguing that fighting for equality and equal representation is bad either.

However, I did find being too extreme about small things (that are unimportant and besides the point), laughable.

Even if the sex choice of a character is locked, it can still be a good game and if there's a game I don't like I'll just go and play another I do like. There's no need to get super vocal about a tiny detail that isn't even the game's main point.

In response to the second part:

Sorry, but I'll have to laugh at that one. XD

If you meant to replay to the user I replied to I get it, but otherwise, it makes 0 sense.

Okami is a game takes a bunch Japanese myths and tales and builds its own story based on that cocktail.
You play as a wolf that happens to be the god of the sun (according to the hints in the game and the original lore of Amaterasu - the goddess of the sun, the PC is a she-wolf).

You occasionally fight demons that look literally like imps with paper masks instead of faces.
Mostly you use you divine brush to restore nature, feed wild animals and help people (the famous game mechanic is drawing in the game world to influence it, e.g. drawing a circle in the sky causes a sunrise).

To address another point, I think we can agree that at least 90% of video games are pure fiction.
They have almost no connection to reality.

Plus it's every player's right to play their (single player) game however they want.
Want to test the possible responses of a NPC, the may level if you've got the time? Why not?
Want to cheat if it's just your game and not multiplayer where you'd be hindering another player? If you like, go for it.

Extreme example: if someone plays as a sociopath for role-playing reasons (or just because they find it fun), it doesn't make them a sociopath in RL.

To be clear: I'm not defending or attacking anyone, I'm just presenting arguments.

That's infinite possibilities of stories you're dealing with. What if all women were kidnapped at the time of character creation? What if the story is about the personal and emotional journey of a male? His gender doesn't play a role in that? What if the y chromosome has shrunk to non-existence in game's timeline and males are extinct (now now, don't get excited here)? The idea that one thing can work for all stories is a retarded fallacy.

Also never mind the need of an excuse in the first place. Why make games if you have to bow to everyone's ideas about plot? Then its better off to go make someone else's game because you'll never have creative freedom either way.

I don't see any reason that plot wouldn't work with a female character; all that would really need changing is replacing the word "man" with "person". Also, there's nothing unrealistic about having a female character go from a squire to a knight.


This response is somewhat of a joke, but it is the sort of thing I actually sometimes do when playing games. Sometimes I'll save the game, try doing something that might not be a good idea, and then reload, just to see what will happen.

I really love to experiment when playing games; sometimes I discover interesting things. For example, I'll attach a screenshot of something strange I remember discovering decades ago. (If you're not familiar with the game, the bottom of the screen shows the party, and the upper right is the combat log; this screenshot was taken during a battle.)

Sorry, but I am not going to follow a link to that site. Do you have a better one?

What about sireing a child for one of the cortesians in the brothel? You know, with all fucking and drinking through the night. Nothing unrealistic too?