People are stating that they do not care for achievements anyways, therefore they don't feel mistreated, but this post isn't even about how you personally feel about achievements.

It's about the fact that even though we've paid the same amount as Steam users for a game, we've received less than they have/receive less support.

It really doesn't matter if you like achievements or not, it's more a matter of principle. At least for this thread.

That statement is switching the premise of the petition to be something different that what is actual being put forth.

The OP is not saying THQ must add achievements to all games, but rather, THQ must stop treating GOG users like second-class citizens by selling them GOG games that do not have achievements whereas the same identical titles on Steam do have them.

That is unquestionably disrespectful to GOG users. Their money is equally as valuable as that of Steam users'. Yet in exchange for the same money, GOG users are receiving a somewhat gimped, less-featured product.

And Achievement inequity is just one of the major problems with GOG games. Lots of games have other additional inequities for GOG users too, such as they receive new multiplayer servers and new patches on Steam, whilst the same identical games on GOG are left gimped without those things.

Yet another major problem is that some games that desperately need Crossplay in order for GOG users to be able to play multiplayer in a reasonable way don't have Crossplay.

GOG's policy should be that publishers are not ever allowed to sell any games on GOG that are less-featured than their Steam counterparts, or that in any way gimp the user experience in comparison to the Steam version (i.e. as happens when GOG allows games that need Crossplay to omit it).

You said the same thing as me, only with different words. You are saying THQ Nordic games, which have achievements on Steam but not on GOG, should not be sold on GOG.

And that is exactly where I disagree. I want the THQ Nordic games on GOG, regardless of whether they have Galaxy achievements or not. Multiplayer support is also another thing I personally don't care for, and want to appear on GOG even if the GOG version is lacking it.

I hate achievements. Even if you try to ignore them, all kinds of popups keep popping up to announce that you "achieved" something when you entered a new room in the game or whatever.

If GOG versions lack achievements, that's one more reason to keep buying games from GOG.

I also find it very hard to see how a feature that tracks your playing and keeps sending information to some server is ideologically compatible with DRM-free approach.

I think co-op would be a bigger selling point, at least here on GOG. iirc one of the top reviews warns about the lack of co-op and says he won't purchase because of it.

Yeah I don't care either way, but the rough truth is companies can treat GOG users worse than Steam users because GOG is much smaller and brings in much less money. They could spend similar amounts of time putting in Steam and GOG achievements, but it might not be worth it to them when 50k users play on Steam and 5k users play on GOG.

And the reason people won't use GOG? "All my games in one place" on Steam. ;)

The part where you and I (or you and Timppu for that matter, since I share his view) disagree is the part I bolded. I don't consider a game with achievements is more complete than the same game without them. If they are there I'll just ignore them. In other words, in my opinion achievements themselves aren't a feature, and neither is a lack of achievements.

But while the request is intended to make sure publishers don't "treat GOG users any worse" (arguable, as per the paragraph above) than they do Steam users, you should be aware of all its consequences. If the wish is successful don't expect a rosy-colored outcome of a perfect world where we get all the games we are bound to get in our current future and every one of them simply has the extra work of achievements tacked on. Sometimes it would mean the publisher would just think "I won't bother publishing on GOG then. It would mean extra work for a smaller profit than the Steam userbase will give me for the same work".

Arguably, I believe most publishers will just ignore GOG if that wish gains wide adoption. So I'm sorry if Timppu and I don't sign that wish, but neither of us want to make that hypothetical future a reality for a so-called feature we are indifferent to. Timppu wasn't "switching the premise of the petition to be something different that what is actual being put forth", he was just considering what would happen when a publisher decides he's not willing to go that far to appease the GOG userbase. They would still have that choice after all.

Crossplay/ multiplayer features are an entirely different beast tho. I won't address them in my post further, but I admit they should be in our versions regularly when possible (even if I personally don't do multiplayer)

I agree, but Galaxy keeps the playtime tracking local, doesn't it? I hope it does

To me it is irrelevant if they are considered as features or not, that is just semantics. Either way, they are features (or non-features) I don't care for, hence I can't support the idea that a game lacking them shouldn't be sold on GOG.

It is a bit like the complaints about the GOG version lacking German or French or Italian language support, or a Linux/Mac version. I guess it sucks to German Linux and French Mac gamers if the GOG version doesn't have them, but since I personally don't care for non-English (nor really non-Windows) versions, I am totally fine if only the English Windows version arrives to GOG. That is the only version I want anyway, and I don't feel like being left out of anything even though I can't play a German Linux version of the same game on GOG.

(Linux versions _might_ become more relevant to me in case MS keeps doing stupid things with Windows 10... but at this point I'd just try out WINE in case I'd want to run my GOG Windows games on Linux).

If I was advocating adding exclusively games I like, sure. Rather, I am advocating the possibility that brings most games to us (including genres I don't care about) even if some of them won't have all the possible bells and whistles that some of us would want.

No solution will give us all the games and every feature (even conceding that achievements are a feature), that much is obvious. Either we will compromise on not having game X here at all and nobody enjoys it, or having an achievementless version here and a subset of the userbase will enjoy it but not all it has to offer them. The math is obvious here.

As much as we'd love to, GOG just doesn't have the same pull as Valve and a wish will not change that. But if GOG ever becomes as big as Steam you can bet publishers won't think twice about adding whatever feature here they do over there. They would do it even before we ask them to add them. However, keeping the game pool smaller is not the way to achieve that.

Both wishlists as far as I can see are not about wanting to have more games with achievements in general but rather for some special kind of achievements IF there are any. Could you rephrase this? What is it you wanted to say here? That GOG is receiving not as many updates as Steam or something else? What exactly are you meaning with "support that gives their games in steam is superior to the support that it offers to their gog games"? And is "Pero" a typo or a person?

I mean in general. That is, there are many games that are supported by the developers in the steam forums but not in the gog forums. Also (although less important) most steam games have achievements and cloud save, but in gog right now virtually any game that is added has no support for achievements even though they are highly demanded in the requests of the wishes of the users and many of them also have no added cloud save (although this fortunately to a lesser extent).

In the end I do as many users, if a game does not have support for the developer's gog or does not add achievements or clud save I get the game without drm by other means.

On the contrary. I consider it very selfish to suggest that if a game lacks a certain feature (be it Galaxy achievements, a certain language or OS version, whatever), then no one should be able to buy it on GOG, even those who don't care for that particular feature. Like I don't care for achievements, so no I am not going to sign a petition that such feature MUST be in a GOG version before it should be sold here.

On the other hand I am not against the idea of games having achievements either, so if the GOG version gets them too, hey good for those who care.

To me that is common sense and I am surprised it isn't for some. This isn't any Amnesty human rights bs we are talking about here, but games entertainment.

I support GOG games having achievements (and Linux and German versions), but I am not going to boycott games for not having them. It is the same as if I said you shouldn't be buying a certain game from GOG because it is missing a Finnish language version, and I'd demand GOG to remove it from the store. That is just senseless.

We are customers, not GOG staff or GOG owners. It is not our job nor duty or even right to decide where the platform should be going. It is GOG's headache. We vote with our wallets, that is all, but I will not let you or any other customer (other than me) to vote with my wallet, ok? Get your own damn wallet to vote with.

Ah, now I understand - and I have to agree. THQNordic is bringing many games to GOG - which is a good thing. However after a quick post "Hi, hope you enjoy this game" (mostly posted by THQNordic Tom or so) you won't hear anything after. Luckily some - mostly smaller studios changed this and are active on the GOG forums as well (and it's fun to talk with them) ... but THQNordic ... no.

Keep in mind that the Galaxy API needed for the achievements here works quite different than the Steam API most devs are used to. It also seems to be a lot of work for devs to adapt Steam achievements to GOG. In example: The game "Layers of Fear" was offered here with achievements just as it was on Steam. So I played it but could not unlock a single one. I had a nice e-mail chat with the devs/publishers and he then told me that their engine would not be compatible with the way GOG is handling achievements. GOG offered me a refund and a day later the achievements were gone. The problem was and still is - not only in the case of THQNordic - that several devs consider GOG to be a bonus. They get our money and that's it. They don't want to invest more than necessary on GOG because GOGs sales in general are not nearly as much as Steam sales. This also often leads to the unfortunate fact (that has also been posted here and that imo is far more important) that those devs neglect games regarding updates - even feature updates. Perception is still broken here on GOG, the devs of Pharaonic added several additional languages to the game (Text only) on Steam months ago and told me that it's too difficult and time consuming to add those on GOG as well (I pointed them to the simple Galaxy API update possibility but got no reply anymore) and the list goes on. THIS is a real problem and imo far more worse than missing achievements which could be argued if they are even part of the game - but yes, I get your point and I agree ... but this goes not just for THQNordic AT ALL.

But where is the wishlist asking for more achievements in general? The two you posted only asked for some special kind of achievements.

I would not complain here at all. Steam will only provide cloud saves for games that are supporting it - meaning newer games. The way GOG provides them works different and is able to provide cloud saves even for older games that will never get cloud saves on Steam. Unfortunately it is a lot of work to implement those. Just take a look at the "What did just update" thread and you will see that GOG is constantly adding cloud saves and overlays. They seem to not even need the devs to do this - it's all Galaxy.

I don't even dare to ask what you want to say by "other means".

The point is that nobody here has said that if a game doesn't have the achievements it shouldn't be sold on GOG, and certainly I don't demand it.

Also the wishlist is limited to ask respectfully that the users of GOG are treated with equal dignity compared to those of other platforms. One thing we definitely all agree on, starting with updates that do not take months and months to get on GOG compared to Steam.

For the rest of course everyone votes with his wallet. I also bought games without achievements if I liked the game, because I give more importance to the drm-free factor compared to the presence or absence of achievements. Despite this it would be nice to have the complete package even on GOG for all the video games.

For all these reasons I think it's right to support the petition, so that we can all benefit from it. :)

You mean ACTIVE files? That's not the case afaik. If you are talking about the Galaxy embedded installers you will always have the option to use the classic installers instead. So far GOG has not changed this approach.

The reason for this is simple. Devs like to have their updates done the easy way. Using Galaxy API to update the game leads to a quicker update. However GOG (so far) still have to built the offline installers with the new files after Galaxy was updated. So without Galaxy updates you might even have to wait longer for any update.

I am pretty sure the "optional" will stay and I still prefer my classic offline installers even though I also do use Galaxy.