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shmerl: That's why I said artificial restrictions. Architecture compatibility is a given fact. If you want to run one on another you need to use emulation (QEMU etc.). But adding a password is an artificially added restriction not dictated by any technical necessity. So it is DRM.
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Gersen: Well apparently it was dictated by a technical necessity : to prevent some "too intelligent for their own good" browser from thinking those were RAR files and offering to open them. You could even say that it was also dictated by a "practical" reason : to prevent from accidentally opening and extracting the archive and ending up with an non-installed partially working game.
As others explained, it could be achieved without using any passwords or even RAR format. That was one of the listed reasons, and not really a good one too. The DRM related reason was about torrents / malware thing.
Post edited December 29, 2014 by shmerl
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Ganni1987: Then ask yourself which of the 2 services gave you a working game.
Well either...

The game is Windows only :

On Steam : you have to run Steam Windows client on Wine/Windows, download and install the game then copy the installed files.

On GoG : Download the game, use the script in this thread to extract the password, or using Wine/Windows to install the game and extract the files.


The game is Linux compatible:

On Steam : Download the game using Steam linux client.

On GoG : Download the Linux packages.


I would say that both are similar except that I am pretty sure that it will probably be easier to extract the files from the GoG installer one way or another rather than having to run Steam Windows client on Wine to download it.
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Ganni1987: Why should I care about the certificate if I'm downloading the games from my personal account on gog.com?

Give me one valid reason.
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Gersen: What ? we were talking about pirates tampering the installer, what I said (actually what GoG said not me), is that if a pirate extract and repack the installer then the new installer won't be signed, which is something Windows don't like.
Please, don't be so simple. Do you honestly think pirates care about digital signatures? I'm willing to bet most of them can't tell between a signed and unsigned file and the little popup that comes up on Windows they will click "continue or yes" just to get to the installer, they barely read it or know what it's referring to, let alone worry.
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Gersen: Well apparently it was dictated by a technical necessity : to prevent some "too intelligent for their own good" browser from thinking those were RAR files and offering to open them.
That's because they are RAR files. I wonder which browser we are talking about here -- I can't think of any that cannot be persuaded to skip content sniffing given the right set of HTTP headers.
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Gersen: I would say that both are similar except that I am pretty sure that it will probably be easier to extract the files from the GoG installer one way or another rather than having to run Steam Windows client on Wine to download it.
Installing Steam on Wine and downloading the games is something most people can do.

Downloading the GoG installer, searching for the game id, extracting the MD5 to extract the files is something not everyone can do.

I don't see how you could say GOG would be easier.
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Gersen: The game is Windows only :

On Steam : you have to run Steam Windows client on Wine/Windows, download and install the game then copy the installed files.
Where do you want to copy the installed files and why?

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Gersen: I would say that both are similar except that I am pretty sure that it will probably be easier to extract the files from the GoG installer one way or another rather than having to run Steam Windows client on Wine to download it.
No, Steam runs quite fine with WINE. Those GOG installers don't. Getting that decryption key is too much work. Steam gets more attractive for linux users than GOG. Period.
Post edited December 29, 2014 by classicgogger
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Gersen: I would say that both are similar except that I am pretty sure that it will probably be easier to extract the files from the GoG installer one way or another rather than having to run Steam Windows client on Wine to download it.
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Ganni1987: Installing Steam on Wine and downloading the games is something most people can do.

Downloading the GoG installer, searching for the game id, extracting the MD5 to extract the files is something not everyone can do.

I don't see how you could say GOG would be easier.
Hopefully innoextract will include that, so it will be rather easy (again demonstrating the nonsencial nature of this password). Except I think it should be a special gog case, since innosetup isn't used by GOG only. Something like gogextract I guess.
Post edited December 29, 2014 by shmerl
This discussion has been somewhat pointless for quite some time now.

Most arguments in favour of this practise are irrelevant now, since the passwords can be obtained fairly easy. And not only by us, the legitimate customers, but also by anyone else.
The only other purposes not affected that I can see would be the prevention of misunderstandings (accidentally extracting the archives), and the prevention of the embedding of malicious software (which is pointless anyway). Both issues, especially the first one, could be tackled with other technical systems. There are good examples in this thread already.

So please, remove these restrictions.

Edit: By the way, I won't buy games in the near future either, unless some things change around here. These passwords aren't so bad all on themselves, but along with the introduction of regional pricing and a few other issues it's just... too much.
Post edited December 29, 2014 by Urnoev
high rated
I'm kind of surprised that the discussion is revolving around pirated copies. It was a ridiculous argument on GOG's side, and served to derail the discussion on the actual matter at hand.


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Gersen: You can download Windows for free and legally from Microsoft. Granted it will only work for 30 days (unless it's a beta/ public RC which usually last for a lot longer) but it's fast to install and more than enough to extract games, and if you use Virtual Box snapshot feature you can even manage to not have to reinstall Windows every month.

[...]
I sure hope you're not suggesting this as a viable solution.


EDIT: added missing word
Post edited December 30, 2014 by HypersomniacLive
Subscribed (and voted on shmerl's wishlist) to see how this plays out.

I'm a little worried by this.
high rated
I'm really angry at GOG about this situation.


Dear GOG, If you're reading this please know that:

I've always had the assumption that I own the games I buy from you and I always believed them to be DRM-Free. Now my library has games encrypted with a password that you silently decided to add for a reason that doesn't make any sense.

Should you decide to remove this password I'll have to spend a lot of bandwidth and hours into downloading all the affected games and since most of my library is backed up on DVD's it also means I'll have to spend a lot more hours into re-burning discs again, needless to say that good money may go to waste cause of this.

As you can probably see, you've created quite a mess for me. As it currently stands I won't buy any Windows games from you, I can't trust you anymore.

In my 3 years since I joined, I've rarely been disappointed even with your mistakes that have left many people disappointed and angry. It really burns me up that such a great company promoting DRM-Free goes to put a password where not needed. You could have executed this idea in a better way.

I can't help but feel betrayed by the trust I've placed in you.


Regards
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HypersomniacLive: I sure hope you're not suggesting this as a viable solution.
Let's see, it's a solution that works, is free, doesn't have any compatibility issues, is not hard to use even if you have limited knowledge... well yes it is a viable solution.
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ssokolow: You should be good if you snip off the initial 7-byte magic number that says "this is a RAR file" (...)
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Gede: If I may, I would suggest just the opposite: adding a few extra bytes at the beggining to mask RAR's "magic number".
I got the impression that Gowor found "ordinary Windows users can bypass the installer just by renaming the BIN to RAR" to be an unacceptably high risk of unnecessary support calls.

Hence, I was proposing something that's still reasonably easy to future proof but requires more specialized work to unpack.
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ssokolow: As I pointed out in my edit to my previous comment, all you need to do is prevent the browser and the user's unrar tool from identifying the archive. You should be good if you snip off the initial 7-byte magic number that says "this is a RAR file" and adjust your unrar.dll to infer it based on something like a combination of expected filename, expected filesize, and the hash of the first 4K of the file.
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immi101: crazy thought: Let's just tell the users that they have to run the installer to properly install the game.
People used to be able to install stuff from cd/dvd by looking for the install/setup.exe and clicking on it.
Why are we assuming that people are too stupid to understand these simple instructions when they download the game?
Because Gowor seems to have explicitly ruled that out, so I was presenting a compromise I consider acceptable.
Post edited December 30, 2014 by ssokolow
@DragoonPL had an interesting comment in the wishlist:

Passwords are easily found, there's no logical reason to set them uniquely. If you want passwords to stop people not really sure what they're doing, just use the same password for all archives ("IKnowWhatImDoing" or such - and publish it on forum/in FAQ).
The bottom line - to prevent users from erroneously opening that in the browser or running it with VLC (what else should be prevented, users flashing their devices with those bin files instead of firmware anyone?) there is no need to use some uniquely generated passwords or any passwords at all for that matter. Just use some other format which is still possible to extract with existing tools.
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Gersen: Let's see, it's a solution that works, is free, doesn't have any compatibility issues, is not hard to use even if you have limited knowledge... well yes it is a viable solution.
It's not a free solution since it relies on Windows. And installing Windows in VM just to unpack the package is just insane.
Post edited December 30, 2014 by shmerl
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shmerl: Not everything, just something that's intended to hinder your usage of what you bought. I.e. "Digitial Restrictions Management".
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Gersen: So if a game is compiled for x86 CPUs and that as a result it prevents me from playing it on my ARM Android table.. it's definitely DRM. Not to mention that the game is closed source... double DRM.
No, it's DRM when they artificially and pointlessly put roadblocks in the way of my taking the resources from that x86 game and using them in an ARM-compiled copy of ScummVM or DOSBox or what have you.

The key word being "artificially".

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Gersen: We are in 2014...the Internet exists...

...what will happen, some dude download a GoG game from a torrent site... he will end up with some random Bitcoin miner installed, he will post in Redit/Twitter : "#@# I just installed a #@# GoG and those #@# installed a malware and destroyed my computers! "... five minutes later Kotaku will post an "article" : "GOG gone bad; now they install malware with all their games!" and ten minutes later similar headlines on most gaming sites... yes that's silly but that's the world we live in.
We are also in 2014 where Windows checks digital signatures on EXE files. It's more robust to have the signed InnoSetup EXE do a hash check on the RAR and that requires no password.

Again, ineffective at the claimed purpose and puts artificial roadblocks in front of legitimate buyers.
Post edited December 30, 2014 by ssokolow