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General discussionOld games ( retail versions) have the same big problem(21 posts)(21 posts)
(21 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted April 02, 2019
hi, playing around with old games and trying to get them to run ( games that are not for sale yet and 100% patched to run on modern systems)

mainly windows games:

Red Alert 1 + 2 + yurisrevenge expansion, Tiberian Sun + expansion, , Dune 2000, Resident Evil 2 and 3, and more ...

all the same problem : CPU abuse process always at 20 to 25% ( the main game exe) GPU seems to be doing nothing, doesnt get hot....

Tried (yesterday) lots of things: Use the GPU settings regarding vsync, disable multiple cores, etc etc etc , every option that the Nvidia panel has, i tried, nothing works, the fun part is, most games are EA ( well originally Westwood games) that have this CPU problem .

tried Resident Evil 2, but that is a tough one, so i tried Res 3: seemed to work by just running the game BUT

CPU seems to have to set full sails to run it: (2.66 default) at turbo boost ( automatically decide by the CPU) 3.2 GHZ all the time ( turbo) (not overclocked)

check attachment: re3_640x480w.jpg

Anyway has to do with the games , cause if itw ere because of the vga at 85 haz every game should be running like this and they dont , only these old games and some Unity games ( then again: unity = meh)
Attachments:
re3_640x480w.jpg (138 Kb)
Post edited April 02, 2019 by gamesfreak64
Posted April 02, 2019
You know, many of those old games expected a high end graphics card to have like two or four cores, not four thousand... If we are talking really old, it is the processor, not the graphics card, that makes the picture and then the graphics card only draws what the processor tells it.

Even ten year old games may need to be limited so they do not burn up the computer with 800F/s.
Post edited April 02, 2019 by Themken
Posted April 02, 2019
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gamesfreak64: hi, playing around with old games and trying to get them to run ( games that are not for sale yet and 100% patched to run on modern systems)
For Red Alert 2 (as I have that installed) are you using Orgin's version, TLD's version or Xwis's version? Or are you trying to be ultra retro and running the original version?
Posted April 02, 2019
I'm pretty sure that Red Alert has an entire source port to solve that problem.

As for Resident Evil 2, Well, sorry. But that's why they made the remake.


[url=https://pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Resident_Evil_3:_Nemesis]RE 3 doesn't seem to have as many problems.[/url]
Post edited April 02, 2019 by Darvond
Posted April 02, 2019
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gamesfreak64: hi, playing around with old games and trying to get them to run ( games that are not for sale yet and 100% patched to run on modern systems)
avatar
Pond86: For Red Alert 2 (as I have that installed) are you using Orgin's version, TLD's version or Xwis's version? Or are you trying to be ultra retro and running the original version?
Ultra Retro all the way (◑‿◐)
(◑‿◐) retail ofcourse ... no origin or other DRM , the retail had DRM, had Securom, Tages, Starforce,
and lots of more sick and nasty DRM ( DRM is very sick btw).

current topic: march 2019

Denuvo could be cutting your Devil May Cry 5 frame-rate by 25 ...
https://www.reddit.com/r/.../denuvo_could_be_cutting_your_devil_may_cry_5/

Mar 8, 2019 - Rule #5: No questions about buying/building computers, hardware, .... Thank you for the trip down memory age with SecuROM and StarForce back ..... best-of-breed copy protection systems like SecuROM for games and Screen Pass for movies. ..... I don't buy an expensive gaming PC to have performance crippled by DRM.
link: https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/ayu1yj/denuvo_could_be_cutting_your_devil_may_cry_5/

DRM is bad for our hardware , like i said before, if my hardware wasnt old ( physically) and needs to be replaced, i would not get a new pc because why would we waste our hard earned/saved cash
to get Win 10 spyware( ranges between 130 and 150 Euro for a home version , lots of bad updates, to run bloatware software / games, many modern games look like crap , play like crap , and bloat the system because the even simples looking games require 5 GB or more HD space.

Thats why i want old software/ games ( and OS garbage like win10) , today's games are crap.
Anyway soon very soon it will all be play for free with (microtransactions) like big EA boss said and everyone wants its share of it, i wonder what all hardware companies and (smaller) game developers will do ? cause the big boys will eat the small ones :D
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Darvond: I'm pretty sure that Red Alert has an entire source port to solve that problem.

As for Resident Evil 2, Well, sorry. But that's why they made the remake.

[url=https://pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Resident_Evil_3:_Nemesis]RE 3 doesn't seem to have as many problems.[/url]
thanks , but no thanks, if i wanted i could buy a new i5 that runs all that she ites BUT i dont like remakes cause 99% are bad, too many 3d engines used and FPP games... i hope the indy developers will keep making small games like casualgames cause all hope for AAA is lost cause every game has to become 3d (✖╭╮✖).
Post edited April 02, 2019 by gamesfreak64
Posted April 02, 2019
avatar
gamesfreak64: Ultra Retro all the way (◑‿◐)
(◑‿◐) retail ofcourse ... no origin or other DRM , the retail had DRM, had Securom, Tages, Starforce,
and lots of more sick and nasty DRM ( DRM is very sick btw).
For Red Alert 2 thats most likely why then. I use Xwis's base version (multiplayer only) then add the single player files from my install CD (just copy them across no need to install the game.)

Same works for Yuri. Yuri you will need a compat patch to fix the menu issue other than that it both play DRM free.

(If you want a step by step gude for Red Alert2 + YR let me know.)

For Resident Evil 3:

Restoration Patch Got mine running under 10.

1 & 2:

Resident Evil 1 & 2 will have majour issues under new systems. For the classic versions I used Rebirth.

Resident Evil 2

Resident Evil 1
Posted April 02, 2019
avatar
gamesfreak64: Ultra Retro all the way (◑‿◐)
(◑‿◐) retail ofcourse ... no origin or other DRM , the retail had DRM, had Securom, Tages, Starforce,
and lots of more sick and nasty DRM ( DRM is very sick btw).
avatar
Pond86: For Red Alert 2 thats most likely why then. I use Xwis's base version (multiplayer only) then add the single player files from my install CD (just copy them across no need to install the game.)

Same works for Yuri. Yuri you will need a compat patch to fix the menu issue other than that it both play DRM free.

(If you want a step by step gude for Red Alert2 + YR let me know.)

For Resident Evil 3:

Restoration Patch Got mine running under 10.

1 & 2:

Resident Evil 1 & 2 will have majour issues under new systems. For the classic versions I used Rebirth.

Resident Evil 2

Resident Evil 1
wow thats alot of information , will take me some time to read it and figure it out....
thanks for the reply.
Posted April 02, 2019
avatar
gamesfreak64: wow thats alot of information , will take me some time to read it and figure it out....
thanks for the reply.
No problem.

If you get stuck give feel free to give me a shout.

Also Dune 2000:

Gruntmods

Or (as I dislike Gruntmods):

Custom Installer

After installing copy the folders MISSIONS, MOVIES & MUSIC to your Dune 2000 data directory.

(C:\Program Files (x86)\Dune2000\DUNE\Data OR C:\Program Files\Dune2000\DUNE\Data ) If using the custom installer. And instaled to the deafult directory.)

Then install the unnofficial 1.06p patch:

Linky

(Download Dune2000.exe and replace it in your Dune 2000 folder.)

Also make sure to edit RESOURCE.CFG So it says the following (Notepad will do):

data\
data\movies\
data\music\
data\missions\
data\maps\

Dune2000 config tool will allow bigger resolutions for the game (such as 1920x1080.) It will also get videos working. Though you will get a white box to the top left that i've not been able to remove.

Tiberian Sun + Firestorm has this which should work:

(I was not able to get it running on mine it would crash when loading the first mission!)

Tiberain Sun

And finally Red Alert 1 you should really be using this:

Red Alert 1 Installer
Post edited April 02, 2019 by Pond86
Posted April 03, 2019
avatar
Themken: You know, many of those old games expected a high end graphics card to have like two or four cores, not four thousand... If we are talking really old, it is the processor, not the graphics card, that makes the picture and then the graphics card only draws what the processor tells it.

Even ten year old games may need to be limited so they do not burn up the computer with 800F/s.
Thanks for the reply, i am aware of the CPU will do most of the work, but they still advice users to get a decent GPU instead of using onboard GPU ( which usually sux)so it is quite confusing.

Googling : Lots of Cores or a Faster CPU Clock Speed : About 148.000.000 results (0,48 seconds)
thats a lot :D

Google showed me a featured snippet

A core is a single processing unit, multi-core processors have multiple processing units. So a dual-core 3.0GHz processor has two processing units each with a clock speed of 3.0GHz. A six-core 3.0GHz processor has six processing units each with a clock speed of 3.0GHz.Dec 20, 2017
Do I Need Lots of Cores or a Faster CPU Clock Speed? | Create Pro
https://create.pro/blog/cores-faster-cpu-clock-speed-explained/
this makes it even more complicated , and the sad thing is they don't give a real solution, in a way they only say it's up to the buyer to decide, which isnt much of help to me :D

Don't want to waste lots of Euros again ending up with a setup that only frustrates me, like i mentioned before in similar posts, if my current system wasn't t that old (almost 10 years(so physically it retired 6 years ago) ( one new pc every 4 years, instead of one pc per 10 years (+_+) .

Anyway also mentioned many times why i hold off buying a pc as long as possible : 1. too expensive ( since 2002)
2. many old software wont run on (forced) win 10 (+_+) . 3. new hardware Not win 7 compatible cause mickysloth doesnt want to (+_+) . (awfull spyware (you have to disable lots of things)
6. 125 tot 150 Euro for a (+_+) home version

main reasons are in bold, and its not about the price :D
avatar
gamesfreak64: wow thats alot of information , will take me some time to read it and figure it out....
thanks for the reply.
avatar
Pond86: No problem.

If you get stuck give feel free to give me a shout.

Also Dune 2000:

Gruntmods

Or (as I dislike Gruntmods):

Custom Installer

After installing copy the folders MISSIONS, MOVIES & MUSIC to your Dune 2000 data directory.

(C:\Program Files (x86)\Dune2000\DUNE\Data OR C:\Program Files\Dune2000\DUNE\Data ) If using the custom installer. And instaled to the deafult directory.)

Then install the unnofficial 1.06p patch:

Linky

(Download Dune2000.exe and replace it in your Dune 2000 folder.)

Also make sure to edit RESOURCE.CFG So it says the following (Notepad will do):

data\
data\movies\
data\music\
data\missions\
data\maps\

Dune2000 config tool will allow bigger resolutions for the game (such as 1920x1080.) It will also get videos working. Though you will get a white box to the top left that i've not been able to remove.

Tiberian Sun + Firestorm has this which should work:

(I was not able to get it running on mine it would crash when loading the first mission!)

Tiberain Sun

And finally Red Alert 1 you should really be using this:

Red Alert 1 Installer
nice tips ....


i think i have ra1 working i mentioned it before in one or more topics.


check: ra95settings.jpg
Attachments:
ra95settings.jpg (158 Kb)
Post edited April 03, 2019 by gamesfreak64
Posted April 04, 2019
If you want to go full retro with your games and use old versions of the games, why not go full retro hardware-wise? Use a modern system with modern OS for surfing the internet, but for retro-games, get an old second hand PC (or repair the parts of your current 10yo old PC that are broken) with an old Windows version that you don't go online with (for security reasons) and use that offline retro-PC to play retro games? That way you'll play those old games with the kind of hardware they expect and run fine on.

I can't really advice you on particular specs for a retro PC, I myself just used an my old Athlon X2 64 PC with a Radeon HD6670 and put Windows XP on it, but that might still be quite new for really old retro games. There was a recent discussion on GOG what retro machines people use: https://www.gog.com/forum/general/what_kind_of_retro_rigs_do_you_own. There were lots of possible options mentioned there.

*edit: caution with building retro PC's: there's no such thing as an optimal retro PC, with old hardware you can run into compatibility problems as well. The most important question is: what games do you want to run on it? You'll probably get the best experience from something that was considered high-end at the time the game was released. A nice in-depth video, if you have half an hour, is this video by YouTuber LGR who specializes in retro gaming and asked other retro gaming youtubers their opinion on retro gaming hardware. I skipped to the end to see the conclusion: emulation is a complicated affair, but retro hardware even more so: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CgisEFObjA.
Post edited April 04, 2019 by DubConqueror
Posted April 04, 2019
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gamesfreak64: Thanks for the reply, i am aware of the CPU will do most of the work, but they still advice users to get a decent GPU instead of using onboard GPU ( which usually sux)so it is quite confusing.
I'm not sure who you mean by 'they' and what you mean with 'a decent gpu', aren't you running into the trap of reading general advice for newer games and applying it to old games? What you need is a gpu that was decent or high end in the era when the game you want to play was built. With current onboard gpu's like on a modern core i5, the problem you might run into is compatibility, but not very likely lack of gpu power. *edit: I googled your core i5 750 (the one that showed up on the image), it doesn't have onboard gpu or so I've read on a forum. What gpu do you use?
avatar
gamesfreak64: this makes it even more complicated , and the sad thing is they don't give a real solution, in a way they only say it's up to the buyer to decide, which isnt much of help to me :D
For your problem, this part is not complicated at all: the games you want to play, expect the PC to have just a single core as multi-core and multi-threaded cpu's probably didn't exist yet. So for these games, clock speed is the only thing that matters. For really old games, high clock speeds can be a problem too, as really old DOS-era games have their game speed tuned to the cycles of the cpu and can run too fast on newer cpu's.
Post edited April 04, 2019 by DubConqueror
Posted April 04, 2019
I am not sure what the problem is, or what you believe the problem to be. As others have pointed out already, old games can only use one CPU core, so if you have four cores, the most they can use is 25%. But usually that is more than enough, since every core of a modern CPU is much better than the CPUs back then. There are some scenarios where it actually matters to have a high single thread performance (=performance on a single core), like a highly modded Morrowind for example, but in most cases it really should not be a problem at all.

About the low GPU usage: GPU power has increased exponentially in the last 20 years, much more so than CPU power (again, per core), so these older games are really nothing for modern GPUs (you did not mention what your GPU is). In fact, some may not even use the GPU at all.
Posted April 04, 2019
avatar
DubConqueror: If you want to go full retro with your games and use old versions of the games, why not go full retro hardware-wise? Use a modern system with modern OS for surfing the internet, but for retro-games, get an old second hand PC (or repair the parts of your current 10yo old PC that are broken) with an old Windows version that you don't go online with (for security reasons) and use that offline retro-PC to play retro games? That way you'll play those old games with the kind of hardware they expect and run fine on.

I can't really advice you on particular specs for a retro PC, I myself just used an my old Athlon X2 64 PC with a Radeon HD6670 and put Windows XP on it, but that might still be quite new for really old retro games. There was a recent discussion on GOG what retro machines people use: https://www.gog.com/forum/general/what_kind_of_retro_rigs_do_you_own. There were lots of possible options mentioned there.

*edit: caution with building retro PC's: there's no such thing as an optimal retro PC, with old hardware you can run into compatibility problems as well. The most important question is: what games do you want to run on it? You'll probably get the best experience from something that was considered high-end at the time the game was released. A nice in-depth video, if you have half an hour, is this video by YouTuber LGR who specializes in retro gaming and asked other retro gaming youtubers their opinion on retro gaming hardware. I skipped to the end to see the conclusion: emulation is a complicated affair, but retro hardware even more so: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CgisEFObjA.
i like the get an old 'retro' pc , well my old pc were treated so well by me, that they looked like new... the HD were the parts that got old and used a lot therest looked like new when i got rid of the hardware properly ( not just dumping it in a container) my first 100 hz pc looked like new, my second aswell, in fact every pc/console ( atari 2600) looked like new, except the c64 that was old and the circuits were dead.

Anyway, if devs would develop good games , i have seen many games that look very good but just missed out: mostly because they use 3d engines, example: take all the fallout clones, most are brilliant games BUT, and its a but in caps, the engine/tool sux and everything looks like metallic shiny toys, add 360 degrees turning of the map and or the player around the axis which is annoying.

Thank you for the links, a lot of work required i will try it on my new pc/win10 cause i dont want to damage my good old win7, have to keep my good old win7 as long as posible and Windows 10 = trashware anyway so if w10 messes up after my playing and fiddling to run games like Dune its okay :D.
Posted April 04, 2019
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DubConqueror: You'll probably get the best experience from something that was considered high-end at the time the game was released.
So you'll need at least 10 retro PCs to get that "best experience" for all old games. Great advice!

I have a modern PC (i7 6700, GTX970, SSD, "tuned" Windows 10, etc.), and my experience is great for ANY game, from 80s+ to recently released ones.


avatar
gamesfreak64: Anyway, if devs would develop good games , i have seen many games that look very good but just missed out: mostly because they use 3d engines, example: take all the fallout clones, most are brilliant games BUT, and its a but in caps, the engine/tool sux and everything looks like metallic shiny toys, add 360 degrees turning of the map and or the player around the axis which is annoying.

Thank you for the links, a lot of work required i will try it on my new pc/win10 cause i dont want to damage my good old win7, have to keep my good old win7 as long as posible and Windows 10 = trashware anyway so if w10 messes up after my playing and fiddling to run games like Dune its okay :D.
Ok, you don't like 3D games and Windows 10, but why do you keep repeating it?
Post edited April 04, 2019 by teceem
Posted April 04, 2019
The guy really needs to build a retro computer if he is going to be such a fanatic about running the originals.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionOld games ( retail versions) have the same big problem(21 posts)(21 posts)
(21 posts)