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tinyE: Agreed. I hate it when the all white integrity of my comic books is sacrificed for something as silly as racial equality. XD
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Breja: Maybe I'm looking at it wrong, being white and all, but I always found that kind of changes for the sake of "racial equality" actually rather insulting. It's like saying "no, no, you're black. You cannot like or identify with the white characters. Here, we'll make this one black for you." I never felt like I can't like a movie because the main character is a woman, or is black, or asian or gay or whatever. True equality mean that it doesn't matter. And forcing such changes on established characters to appeal to some demographic only reinforces the feeling that it does.
I agree but I addressed the thread the way I did because I kind of took it as a bait thread. The OP put that there knowing someone would jump on it, which I did, and he then fired back.

Enough fun however because it's really a non issue that doesn't merit notice or discussion: really, who cares!? :P On top of that, I was never really a fan of The Four. Even in my Ultimate Avengers game the only one worth having is Johnny because he can blow people up before they get anywhere near the rest of your team, which is kind of cheating, but it's fun. :P
Post edited July 17, 2015 by tinyE
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tinyE: I agree but I addressed the thread the way I did because I kind of took it as a bait thread.
Well, I don't mind bait threads as long as we can easily take them over for actuall discussion or just for fun :D
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tinyE: I agree but I addressed the thread the way I did because I kind of took it as a bait thread.
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Breja: Well, I don't mind bait threads as long as we can easily take them over for actuall discussion or just for fun :D
We need just one bait thread; a kind of one in all, king of the bait threads thread.

A Master Bait Thread.
Post edited July 17, 2015 by tinyE
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Breja: Well in this case I do care, as obviously Johnny and Sue are not related in the same way they are in the comics.
Perhaps I was unclear.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_versions_of_the_Human_Torch There are a bunch of rewrites of how the character works. In all of them so far (AFAIK) Johnny and Sue are siblings. Why would you think that, say, adopted siblings would be any substantial change? Siblings adopted at a very young age tend to see each other as siblings, minus the adjective. Overall effect: near zero.
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tinyE: Agreed. I hate it when the all white integrity of my comic books is sacrificed for something as silly as racial equality. XD
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Breja: Maybe I'm looking at it wrong, being white and all, but I always found that kind of changes for the sake of "racial equality" actually rather insulting. It's like saying "no, no, you're black. You cannot like or identify with the white characters. Here, we'll make this one black for you." I never felt like I can't like a movie because the main character is a woman, or is black, or asian or gay or whatever. True equality mean that it doesn't matter. And forcing such changes on established characters to appeal to some demographic only reinforces the feeling that it does.
Because you look at it as an individual thing, while the issue is systemic : living in a society where the near-totality of role models (fictional heroes, but also social/moral/intellectual authorities, etc) represent a category from which you are excluded forever (being white, being of christian parents, being male, etc...). Which hammers the message of your inadequacy. It is indeed invisible when you belong to the dominant group, and have the occasional identification to a minority (and even so, heterosexuals don't often like to identify to "gay" love stories). but when the overwhelming message is that the heroes belong to "others", and that the ones who share your identity are an exception, this impacts not only the perception of one's own expected role in society, but also the other perceptions of it : the stereotype, the paradigm, of the "positive character", is defined by this artificial norm of over-representation. Because the issue is that representants of minority identities in such roles were much, much more rare than actual distribution (you can have 30% of "brown people" in a sociaty with just 5% of them being visible in medias). The issue used to be much greater a few decades ago, but marvel/dc are digging up a mental universe from decades ago. If the bulk of fictional universe had been crafted nowadays, it would have been more honestly representative of US demography, and this is what is being updated.

Again, it's a matter of drops in the ocean. It makes no sense if you only consider the individual drop.

Oh, also, for all its tediousness, clumsiness and induced boredom, the cringeworthily heavy-handed "white man" movie illustrates this point well. So do studies/documentaries on black kids socialized in dominant "white" medias, and preferring by far white dolls and white action figures to identify to (cue to whitening creams sales, etc).
Post edited July 17, 2015 by Telika
I think it looks awful. Unfortunately we don't even get to see Jessica Alba in her knickers. One good thing from the last movie. :(
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Breja: Well in this case I do care, as obviously Johnny and Sue are not related in the same way they are in the comics.
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OneFiercePuppy: Perhaps I was unclear.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_versions_of_the_Human_Torch There are a bunch of rewrites of how the character works. In all of them so far (AFAIK) Johnny and Sue are siblings. Why would you think that, say, adopted siblings would be any substantial change? Siblings adopted at a very young age tend to see each other as siblings, minus the adjective. Overall effect: near zero.
And I said that "What impact it will have on the story, if any, I can't say yet". The overall efect might be zero, but it still feels like the very obvious, forced attempt to appeal to a demographic, and I already said what I think about that. Maybe my opinion would be different if the actor really struck me as a great choice, but so far I'm not impressed. Though in honesty, the entire team looks very bland.
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Breja: Maybe my opinion would be different if the actor really struck me as a great choice, but so far I'm not impressed. Though in honesty, the entire team looks very bland.
I'm with you there. None of them look all that interesting to me, and I'm not going to go see it in theaters unless the reviews surprise me. I didn't like the ones with Ioan Gruffud (and I *really like* Ioan Gruffud), so I'm not hopeful that I'll like the new one. I never even read the comics, so I have zero attachment to any of them :/
Was an Eastern European cast as Doom? No? So much for diversity, I guess.
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Gonchi: Was an Eastern European cast as Doom? No? So much for diversity, I guess.
They probably tried to fly some people out to Latveria, make a few calls, and couldn't find anyone.

"Well, we have six thousand applicants from Romania."
"Romania? No. Get me a Latverian. I'm not going to make the social faux pas of getting someone from the wrong damn country!"
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Gonchi: Was an Eastern European cast as Doom? No? So much for diversity, I guess.
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OneFiercePuppy: They probably tried to fly some people out to Latveria, make a few calls, and couldn't find anyone.

"Well, we have six thousand applicants from Romania."
"Romania? No. Get me a Latverian. I'm not going to make the social faux pas of getting someone from the wrong damn country!"
Thank god we've got so many British actors to fill in for any culture or ethnicity.
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Breja: Maybe I'm looking at it wrong, being white and all, but I always found that kind of changes for the sake of "racial equality" actually rather insulting. It's like saying "no, no, you're black. You cannot like or identify with the white characters. Here, we'll make this one black for you." I never felt like I can't like a movie because the main character is a woman, or is black, or asian or gay or whatever. True equality mean that it doesn't matter. And forcing such changes on established characters to appeal to some demographic only reinforces the feeling that it does.
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tinyE: I agree but I addressed the thread the way I did because I kind of took it as a bait thread. The OP put that there knowing someone would jump on it, which I did, and he then fired back.

Enough fun however because it's really a non issue that doesn't merit notice or discussion: really, who cares!? :P On top of that, I was never really a fan of The Four. Even in my Ultimate Avengers game the only one worth having is Johnny because he can blow people up before they get anywhere near the rest of your team, which is kind of cheating, but it's fun. :P
This was not a bait thread. It was meant to be a discussion on the changes made to the Fantastic Four . Johnny and Sue are brother sister so one being black is illogical. If they 're going to make movie s base d the studios need to stick to what is in the comics. That's what comic fans want. Tiny if you find that top be baiting you're an ass looking for things that aren't there.
Post edited July 17, 2015 by ShadowWalker56
Looks good to me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAgnQdiZFsQ


Cheesy line #1 we have heard many times before- "We can't change the past but we can change the future"

Well duh we all know that. Sheesh

Cheesy line #2- Military general: What if we say no ?
Black Human Torch: Say yes.

Wait what ? Who hired the crappy writer.


Best comment on youtube- "At 1:29 the top part of the tank literally just disappears into a dinky explosion. You're not even trying anymore."

No way am I going to spend money on this.
Fantastic 4 movies had too much potential. I wish they make a movie on The Ultimates. I remember the last panel of series with Dr.Doom saying "It's Doom who pulls all string."

But now they just ended up with a reboot that no one cares about.