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Breja: Or whether they agree with you about weak gameplay, which you should not assume.
Well, to some extent it's of course always subjective. But if I asked you to mention maybe five memorable fights from the Kotor games, I doubt you'd be able to come up with much. It's always samey groups of trash mob after trash mob, which you can defeat by spamming a few abilities ("flurry" or whatever it's called plus "Force speed", iirc one doesn't need more). In that regard the games are pretty weak. The role-playing opportunities in quests are better, I will admit that (though skill system isn't exactly complex either, it all feels pretty consolized and a bit dumbed-down imo).
But I think those games are really raised above average by the Star Wars setting, which they capture pretty well (and in the case of Kotor 2 put an interesting spin on). If it weren't Star Wars and instead some generic fantasy setting, the games would be just mediocre, because the gameplay mechanics and the encounter design in fights are pretty weak.
Post edited May 05, 2021 by morolf
To give a feedback, I've played the begining of Outcast SP and noticed that it is really slow paced with the classic/old game style of map puzzles and story progression (Run through the map and explore until you figure out what you need to do then more enemy spawns when you do it, repeat.) ...while Academy SP is more of a "Spin your LightSaber around kid, after all you came here for this!" shout.

Both look good, but I believe Outcast will require more time investment and patience... which Im not in the mood right now.

...still, I felt Outcast's lightsaber feel is more, solid? (Through MP with bots testing, comparing it to Academy MP with bots.)
I mean, somehow in Outcast you can feel the hit, the impact, while in Academy, even with more moves and complexity, you can't feel the same impact with each hit.
Does that even make sense? It's weird. haha

Talking only about swordplay here.

By what I searched, there are tons of mods and multiplayer community is more active in Academy with Movie Duels II and some 'pro community' with this Serenity mod or something. (might be wrong through.)

So my conclusion by your opinions and my own 'beguiner experience', Outcast is more for long sit plays, patient and focused gameplay while Academy is, sit, cut some robots and swing your sword. Have fun, chill, leave and repeat when you feel like it.

Thanks everyone. :)
Post edited May 05, 2021 by .Keys
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morolf: But if I asked you to mention maybe five memorable fights from the Kotor games, I doubt you'd be able to come up with much.
Well, there's Bendak Starkilleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer... and the Krayt Dragon, which I remember even without thinking about them too much. Apart from the obvious "villains". And the Rancor. But let's be honest, there's always a Rancor. Oh, and I guess Juhani is also one, without further spoilers. That's just from the original. Never quite finished the sequel, so only remember bits. Oh, oh, and the like head honcho Sith on Korriban (which you can avoid fighting, if I remember correctly, but that's not the "light side" choice).

P.S.: I last played the game like 7 or 8 years ago.
Post edited May 05, 2021 by WinterSnowfall
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WinterSnowfall: Well, there's Bendak Starkilleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer... and the Krayt Dragon, which I remember even without thinking about them too much. Apart from the obvious "villains". And the Rancor. But let's be honest, there's always a Rancor.
I don't really remember those guys tbh (iirc only played Kotor 1 once). What I do remember is that at some point you face Darth Bandon, the apprentice of the main villain, with two henchmen...and it was just as forgettable as most fights, over in a few seconds...they had no chance against my "improved flurry" or whatever I was spamming :-)
Anyway, I don't want to be too negative, they're good games, and I enjoyed playing them (Kotor 2 more than the 1st tbh, imo it has a much more interesting story and characters).
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§pectre: You can enable the dismemberment by putting +set g_sabermorerealistic 2 +helpusobi 1 in the shortcut launch option. For some reason it's been blocked doing it normally in game.
I highly recommend setting the g_sabermorerealistic value to 11381138 instead of the numbers you usually find in guides on how to enable it. That supposedly allows dismemberment without making lightsaber damage insta-kill everything and screwing up the original game balance.

h ttps://tcrf.net/Star_Wars_Jedi_Knight_II:_Jedi_Outcast_(Windows,_Mac_OS_Classic,_Mac_OS_X)#Realistic_Saber_Com bat

(remove the space after h at the start and m at the end from the link. It's very fucky due to all the special characters and GOG forum can't handle it...)

Haven't tried it yet as I haven't replayed the game yet, but fully intend on doing this when I do.
Post edited May 06, 2021 by idbeholdME
Jedi Outcast had the better story and main character. Jedi Academy had the better mechanics and the vastly superior multiplayer. Just talked last weekend with someone about how the duel mechanics worked in Jedi Academy as well as how great the siege modus was.
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Lucumo: Jedi Outcast had the better story and main character. Jedi Academy had the better mechanics and the vastly superior multiplayer. Just talked last weekend with someone about how the duel mechanics worked in Jedi Academy as well as how great the siege modus was.
Seems like the mod community for Academy is also superior (in numbers) in comparison with Outcast.
(Which means only that Academy have more freedom and mechanics to be modded, not that one is superior to the other.)

Some good mods I've encountered so far for Academy that enhance the lightsaber combat for multiplayer and singleplayer both:

Movie Duels
Movie Battles II
Evolution of Combat Evolved (Adapted from Outcast)
Evolution of Combat III Pro Edition (Adapted from Outcast)
Ladder (Adapted from Outcast)
OJP Enhanced Lite and Expanded
Serenity Jedi Engine

It's really awesome what the community can do to make one game like this alive after ~15 years.

-edit:

Just checked Movie Duels official moddb page and looks like there's a new Update coming:

"Tompa9 (Mod dev) 1hour ago
Hello MD community players. We are working hard to finish last touches of the mod so it can be released in good shape. Thank you for your patience. It will be released when it's done somewhen in May."

https://www.moddb.com/mods/movie-duels
Post edited May 06, 2021 by .Keys
Regarding mods and the like: Shoutout to Raven Software for releasing the source codes after Disney shut down LucasArts.
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Lucumo: Regarding mods and the like: Shoutout to Raven Software for releasing the source codes after Disney shut down LucasArts.
True, releasing the source code is the best thing that can be done to ensure the game will be alive for a long time to come. Look at Doom. 25+ years and still a game with one of the most active communities out there.

Wish more games did that.
Post edited May 06, 2021 by idbeholdME
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.Keys: Thanks everyone. :)
I thought this might be of interest to you - a retrospective on the whole Dark Forces/Jedi Knight series. I don't usually recommend any youtubers, and Noah is pretty much the only one I follow. Even if I don't always agree with him, his stuff is pretty much always interesting to listen to.
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.Keys: In this "Force (4th) Day", what are your opinions in both games and why one is better than the other in your point of view?
Or maybe they're equal in gaming value?
Both are great games, you can't mistake if you choose one or the other, but I prefer Jedi Outcast because you play as Kyle Katarn <3
Why Disney have to kill you, my dear???? D':
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KetobaK: Why Disney have to kill you, my dear???? D':
Seeing how they handled most classic characters, I think Kyle might be better off not existing in the new continuity.
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Breja: I thought this might be of interest to you - a retrospective on the whole Dark Forces/Jedi Knight series. I don't usually recommend any youtubers, and Noah is pretty much the only one I follow. Even if I don't always agree with him, his stuff is pretty much always interesting to listen to.
Speaking of retrospectives, I don't know if you're aware of the old Gametrailers one for the entire Star Wars series? And by entire I mean pre-Disney :)
Each of the 10 episodes is popcorn worthy and makes for great comfort-watching.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZrCEjxynWg&amp;list=PLW8W26rOZJlaLKTmd36ntUkBYR67x0pg5&amp;index=1
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Lucumo: Regarding mods and the like: Shoutout to Raven Software for releasing the source codes after Disney shut down LucasArts.
+1 For more Devs releasing their Source Code after their company ends as a "public domain", just like art, music, etc.

There's also one cool indie game called "Cortex Command" whose devs released their Source Code. There's a whole community working in a project called "Cortex Command Community Project" after DataRealms gave up the game.

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Breja: I thought this might be of interest to you - a retrospective on the whole Dark Forces/Jedi Knight series. I don't usually recommend any youtubers, and Noah is pretty much the only one I follow. Even if I don't always agree with him, his stuff is pretty much always interesting to listen to.
Thank you! I also enjoy listening to Noah's content, I've never watched this video though. Will do. :)

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KetobaK: Both are great games, you can't mistake if you choose one or the other, but I prefer Jedi Outcast because you play as Kyle Katarn <3 Why Disney have to kill you, my dear???? D':
Outcast indeed look great, unfortunately I'm not in the mood right now to dedicate time+patience to it's singleplayer campaing as it is more slow paced. Academy is more the kind of 'sit have some fun, see you next time' kinda game I want right now, so I got Academy ^^'
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KetobaK: Why Disney have to kill you, my dear???? D':
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Breja: Seeing how they handled most classic characters, I think Kyle might be better off not existing in the new continuity.
I remember that I was quite mad when I hear about Rouge One, felt like the final nail in the coffin for Kyle, but after I watch it was pretty good. And after Jon Favreau bring back the Dark Troopers in The Mandalorian I have high hopes, maybe he will return to the canon in some point