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nijuu: Im actually wondering why people have an issue with pricing. Its a big brand IP title even if its a small studio working on it.
Backers have a large amount of input into these kickstarters, especially one starting pretty much from scratch (regardless of IP). So im not sure where the problem is. The devs want a very good game. The backers want it.
ALL kickstarter's are a risk. Albeit some more than others.
The perceived value of the game compared to others of similar complexity and polish, from the pricing strategies of other kickstarters, from value of other games in the history of the developers, and ultimately, the comparison to the game they intend to make a successor to.

Torment, for example, solicited input on its pricing tiers from the fan community long before day 1. The early bird pricing was a direct result of that input.
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oasis789: looks like the base pricing issue is always a big deal for any kickstarter... hopefully they'll come out and justify it soon.
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OneFiercePuppy: Justify a $25 game price? The arrogance of consumers never ceases to be appalling.

Justification should be pretty simple: bills don't pay themselves, and two hours' salary isn't much to pay for a game if it's any good.
Better to be arrogant than ignorant I'd say.
This is a Kickstarter, not a game some publisher payed for and they need to recoup the money they invested in.

Let's take a simple example.
Say a developer needs $1000000 to make a game and launches a Kickstarter campaign.
If they go with a $25 tier they need 40000 backers.
If they go with a $20 tier they need 50000 backers.
The only thing that changes is the number of backers. Their bills are going to be payed either way, their bills don't magically increase just because they have 50000 backers at $20 rather than 40000 at $25. Hell, in theory they could have 1000000 backers with $1 each and it still wouldn't change anything.

The only question is "if they would have gone with a lower price would it have attracted more people and actually increase the pledged amount?". My answer would be YES (for me personally) simply because their current choice obviously is not working for many people. Considering most of the pledges come at the very beginning and at the end, with very little in-between, they are going to cut it pretty close IF they even make it.

And the remark "two hours salary to pay for a game" is also very ignorant. I wish I'd make $25 for 2 hours of work but I don't. And many other people don't.
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OneFiercePuppy: Justify a $25 game price? The arrogance of consumers never ceases to be appalling.

Justification should be pretty simple: bills don't pay themselves, and two hours' salary isn't much to pay for a game if it's any good.
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Aningan: Better to be arrogant than ignorant I'd say.
This is a Kickstarter, not a game some publisher payed for and they need to recoup the money they invested in.

Let's take a simple example.
Say a developer needs $1000000 to make a game and launches a Kickstarter campaign.
If they go with a $25 tier they need 40000 backers.
If they go with a $20 tier they need 50000 backers.
The only thing that changes is the number of backers. Their bills are going to be payed either way, their bills don't magically increase just because they have 50000 backers at $20 rather than 40000 at $25. Hell, in theory they could have 1000000 backers with $1 each and it still wouldn't change anything.

The only question is "if they would have gone with a lower price would it have attracted more people and actually increase the pledged amount?". My answer would be YES (for me personally) simply because their current choice obviously is not working for many people. Considering most of the pledges come at the very beginning and at the end, with very little in-between, they are going to cut it pretty close IF they even make it.

And the remark "two hours salary to pay for a game" is also very ignorant. I wish I'd make $25 for 2 hours of work but I don't. And many other people don't.
15/20$ i can spend for this project, but 25$ is to much (not only for me but for many players). And dont like only kick item in 75$ tier...
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Aningan: Better to be arrogant than ignorant I'd say.
This is a Kickstarter, not a game some publisher payed for and they need to recoup the money they invested in.

Let's take a simple example.
Say a developer needs $1000000 to make a game and launches a Kickstarter campaign.
If they go with a $25 tier they need 40000 backers.
If they go with a $20 tier they need 50000 backers.
The only thing that changes is the number of backers. Their bills are going to be payed either way, their bills don't magically increase just because they have 50000 backers at $20 rather than 40000 at $25. Hell, in theory they could have 1000000 backers with $1 each and it still wouldn't change anything.

The only question is "if they would have gone with a lower price would it have attracted more people and actually increase the pledged amount?". My answer would be YES (for me personally) simply because their current choice obviously is not working for many people. Considering most of the pledges come at the very beginning and at the end, with very little in-between, they are going to cut it pretty close IF they even make it.

And the remark "two hours salary to pay for a game" is also very ignorant. I wish I'd make $25 for 2 hours of work but I don't. And many other people don't.
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Asmo2: 15/20$ i can spend for this project, but 25$ is to much (not only for me but for many players). And dont like only kick item in 75$ tier...
You taken a survey have you? ;).
Remember this. Will be a higher price on release. All kickstarters are higher priced. So if you want to pay more later... thats your perogative ....
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Aningan: Let's take a simple example.
Say a developer needs $1000000 to make a game and launches a Kickstarter campaign.
If they go with a $25 tier they need 40000 backers.
If they go with a $20 tier they need 50000 backers.

And the remark "two hours salary to pay for a game" is also very ignorant. I wish I'd make $25 for 2 hours of work but I don't. And many other people don't.
And if they charged a dollar they'd only need a million backers! Your grasp of economics is dizzying.

I called it two hours salary because Oasis is from the us. Median personal income, minus taxes at that rate, comes out to about 12-13 bucks an hour. Or were you...ignorant of that?
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Aningan: Let's take a simple example.
Say a developer needs $1000000 to make a game and launches a Kickstarter campaign.
If they go with a $25 tier they need 40000 backers.
If they go with a $20 tier they need 50000 backers.

And the remark "two hours salary to pay for a game" is also very ignorant. I wish I'd make $25 for 2 hours of work but I don't. And many other people don't.
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OneFiercePuppy: And if they charged a dollar they'd only need a million backers! Your grasp of economics is dizzying.

I called it two hours salary because Oasis is from the us. Median personal income, minus taxes at that rate, comes out to about 12-13 bucks an hour. Or were you...ignorant of that?
That was an extreme example. Way to go ignoring the point!

Edit: And yes, I was ignorant of the fact your remark was aimed only at 'oasis789' since there are more of us having a problem with their choice of tier pricing. I apologize for calling you ignorant on that remark. I stand by my other reason.
Post edited April 25, 2013 by Aningan
An unknown studio starting this kickstarter for this series is 1 thing.
Another issue with this kickstarter is the history of attempts of reviving the JA series.
JA3, JA3D, Hired Guns: The Jagged Edge, JA BA and JA Online all failed at some point. Those which got realised never managed to rise to the standard of JA and JA2.
The will to "modernise" the series always seems to be in the way of making a successor which can match it's predecessors, leaving us with mediocre games.

Having said that, I am slightly optimistic as they seem to be heading the right way. Talking with the people from the Bear's Pitt is defintely something good. Some great additions to the series have come from there.
I also like the idea of a base of operations and what sounds like forward bases/posts. It adds realism and tactical gameplay. In JA2 you had crossroads which you could clear, but the enemy always came back. Now you might be able to setup a post there to secure it.
Despite agreeing to some of the criticism on the tiers, I'm considering backing it. The $75 tier looks interesting if it was $50. So if I back it, it's probably going to be the $25 or $35 tier.
Post edited April 25, 2013 by HertogJan
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Aningan: Let's take a simple example.
Say a developer needs $1000000 to make a game and launches a Kickstarter campaign.
If they go with a $25 tier they need 40000 backers.
If they go with a $20 tier they need 50000 backers.

And the remark "two hours salary to pay for a game" is also very ignorant. I wish I'd make $25 for 2 hours of work but I don't. And many other people don't.
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OneFiercePuppy: And if they charged a dollar they'd only need a million backers! Your grasp of economics is dizzying.

I called it two hours salary because Oasis is from the us. Median personal income, minus taxes at that rate, comes out to about 12-13 bucks an hour. Or were you...ignorant of that?
"Dizzying" indeed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_elasticity_of_demand

There are a few reasons why FullControl might keep their preorder price high. One is low price elasticity, but that's an assumption, maybe even a poor one given how many people seem to care. Another is cannibalizing future sales. But that's misguided: FTL sold 20-30x their backers post launch.

Why does any of this matter? Because just meeting their initial funding target is probably not going to be sufficient to make a proper JA successor. JA2 cost sirtech canada 4 million to make way back then.
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nijuu: Remember this. Will be a higher price on release. All kickstarters are higher priced. So if you want to pay more later... thats your perogative ....
This doesn't sound like a great argument to me. Do you really think many people will jump all over a classic game like JA remade in a mere classic fashion still for ~$40 or something? Sure, you'll get some hardcore fans for that, those that didn't already back the kickstarter, but I imagine a lot of people will wait out a sale at that price.

Not to mention I can already here the 1.13 purists complaining it doesn't have the same amount of content which will automatically lead to forums full of complaints and low metacritic scores.
Post edited April 25, 2013 by Pheace
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nijuu: Remember this. Will be a higher price on release. All kickstarters are higher priced. So if you want to pay more later... thats your perogative ....
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Pheace: This doesn't sound like a great argument to me. Do you really think many people will jump all over a classic game like JA remade in a mere classic fashion still for ~$40 or something? Sure, you'll get some hardcore fans for that, those that didn't already back the kickstarter, but I imagine a lot of people will wait out a sale at that price.

Not to mention I can already here the 1.13 purists complaining it doesn't have the same amount of content which will automatically lead to forums full of complaints and low metacritic scores.
Not meant to be an argument.
Do people want a new JA game to be done right? Here is their chance.
Tactical Layer - Core Combat
Dear backers and friends,

Day 3 in the campaign and we are super happy about your support and questions! Keep them coming, and we will work hard on keeping you up to date.

In our last update we talked a bit about our ideas for the strategic layer, and this time we want to get to the core and heart of the game.

We just want to briefly note that we have a lot more updates planned, covering detailed information on the ideas we have for the game. From story to world economy and customization options. Soon we'll also be making an update on add-ons and changes to pledges.

We are completely and utterly dependent on your support! So please, pledge share, tweet so that we can make this Jagged Alliance: Flashback a reality!

Currently we're closing in on 20% of our minimum goal, in just 3 days, which we think is a fantastic start being a relatively unknown developer and it means we're on-track.

A big thank you from the bottom of our hearts, and now lets get to the meat of this update. COMBAT!

Core Philosophy of Jagged Alliance: Flashback

There is a great deal of speculation and doubts surrounding what we mean by staying true to the core and what we mean when saying words like “accessibility” or “modern”.

So lets just hammer this one into the ground right away.

“If it ain’t broken - don’t fix it”.

This is where some of the newer games got it wrong we think.

Flashback will be using the same mechanics for the tactical layer as Jagged Alliance 2. We are NOT dumbing anything down or replacing complexity with simplicity.

We will try to take a look at some mechanics and see if it’s possible to tweak and improve them. A prime example of this is stealth and fog of war. So read on.

But you say you are not making JA2

Yes - We are not making a new Jagged Alliance 2, we are making an all new game, but this does not mean that we’re moving away from the gameplay it pioneered.

We are making a new story - using the JA2 core tactical mechanics, selected pieces of 1.13 community patch as well as additions of our own.

A new story means we can include a new setting, dream up new missions and introduce all new enemies - but at the same time the current budget means we're restricted in the scope of the game in terms of assets and the total amount of mercenaries, which are a scalable factor of the final budget. However, all of these elements do NOT change the core gameplay.

Simply put, more money = more game content.

We don't just want Flashback to be a rehash of JA2, we want to ensure that the improvements made by the community are taken into consideration. We want to show you how AIM came about and we want to expand the backstories of your favourite mercenaries. We think these are ample reasons to make a new game for both new and old fans to enjoy!

Movement, Line of Sight and Fog of War

This wouldn't be a true Jagged Alliance game without the hybrid system, therefore we are bringing back the hybrid system, enabling real time positioning your troops while roaming in a given sector outside of combat.

When the enemy comes into line of sight of any squad member, the game turns into the classic turn-based combat system from JA2. Read more about that part further down.

During all phases, enemies are only visible while inside line of sight and a few turns after leaving it again.

To make things a little more interesting while roaming, we are adding fog of war to the game. This adds exploration as part of the game. When entering an undiscovered sector most of it will be black, and is only revealed as you explore it.

This opens up a whole new dimension to the game, and we think it’s something that could really add to the tactical depth of the game.

Turn-Based Combat System

Going into turn-based combat will be very much like JA2.

You will have the standard action point system to perform movement, shooting, reloads, detonating C4 etc. The amount of action points for each turn is still depending on the state of the unit in terms of health, fatigue, stress, current stance and even possibly a more complex suppression system like in the 1.13 mod.

We will not touch a lot of this and change it. It’s more about using modern computer power to visually aid the player with movement path display, information about cover, effective ranges of weapons and more. Making it more accessible for players to play the game without having to have the manual open.

Enemy Factions

If there’s one thing we want to do with Flashback, then it is to introduce a varied amount of enemies.

The game is not black and white, east vs. west, there are shades of grey - the Russian presence introduces a massive amount of turmoil on San Christobal, and various factions will compete against each other, some more active than others.

Trust will play a central role in the game, because it’s not everyone you can trust, not even the CIA.

It’s entirely up to you how you proceed and portray yourself throughout the game, are you ruthless enough to torture your enemies or will you be merciful enough to gain the trust of the resistance?

The amount of factions, the political aspect of this and the influence into the game is partly part of stretch goals - as this adds an entire new layer of art assets and balancing into the game.

We will go more into this and the story behind Flashback in a later update.

All the Nitty Gritty Details

It is important for us to give you this quick overview.

It’s become apparent to us that there are a gazillion questions about the details and also a lot of personal wish lists for what should and should not be in the a new Jagged Alliance game. We’re currently in pre-production of the game so we do not have all the little details in place yet, which is also why we’re taking all your feedback in to see which direction to take the game.

We will add more updates through the next weeks that will go into more depth on different aspects. For example we are looking hard at making a more deep stealth mechanism, taking weapon modification into the game and so on.

But end of the day a lot of these details are impossible to answer before we know more about the final budget. Every little feature and art asset costs money to produce. And we want to make sure that we keep what we promise!

Until next time.

The Full Control JA Team
New Pledges and Add-ons
Dear backers,

As always, thank you for all your support and valuable feedback - We’re listening

For this update we’ll be covering changes to pledges, the addition of add-ons and some information on what’s to come.

First of all we can’t stress enough how important it is to get the word out that there’s a Jagged Alliance Kickstarter happening and that we really ARE trying to do the franchise justice. We see this campaign as a community effort, therefore sharing the news on Forums, Twitter, Facebook and LinkedIn would be a tremendous help in reaching our goal and enable us to add more content to the game.

Upcoming Kickstarter Updates:

Old-timers We’re currently talking to a few of the people who were involved in developing the original Jagged Alliance Games as well as prominent modders of the 1.13 patch. We’re still not sure of their possible involvement in this campaign, but it’s something we’ll let you know as soon as it’s in place.

The Full Control Team
A lot of people have been asking for more information about the team so we have decided to make a short video from the Full Control Den, showing you where the magic happens, the team and a bit more on what we’re currently working on. We also have a Q & A video planned!

The Story and RPG elements
We’ll also be taking a closer look at some of the story and RPG elements we have in mind for Jagged Alliance: Flashback, which we feel are some of the core pillars of the original titles.

We have lot more updates planned and also a surprise or two, so stay tuned.

New Pledges and Add-ons:

Pledges:

We’re gonna be adding new ones and making changes to existing pledges.

$65 Low on Ammo Tier: A boxed version of the game + a printed manual (ONLY THIS TIER) + Digital soundtrack + Digital map (Shipping is covered for the EU and the US but please add $25 if outside those areas )

$200 Who be the fool Tier: All previous rewards + you get to make a name for the enemy name pool (ONLY THIS TIER) Limited (50)

$500 Bobby Trapped Tier: (Will now also include) Name a trash item in the game and co-write the item description (ONLY THIS TIER)

$1200 Sooo Badass Tier: All previous rewards + Co-design a bad guy in the game (ONLY THIS TIER) Limited (10)

$1500 You’re breaking up Tier: All previous rewards + Co-design the implementation of radio coverage on the island og San Christobal (ONLY THIS TIER) + Become the radio npc guy (ONLY THIS TIER) Limited (1)

$1800 Get out your guns Tier: All previous rewards + Co-design a Mercenary in the game (ONLY THIS TIER) Limited (10)

$2500 Guns r Us Tier: (WILL NOW BE) All previous rewards + Become a faction leader, we will use your name and (if relevant) use a picture of you to add a general likeness, in addition you will be added to the special NPC credits list. (ONLY THIS TIER) + Free access to all expansions + 10 extra digital copies of the game. Limited (3)

$10,000 A.I.M.ing to Win Tier: (Will now also include) Become the Top Pimp (Story NPC) of the island and run your very own brothel (ONLY THIS TIER) Limited (1)

Add-ons:

To to add the add-ons, simply change the amount of your pledge accordingly, without changing the reward tier. If we reach our goal we’ll be able to make surveys to clarify which product you desire to add. Please note that some items are only available to some Tiers, shown below:

DIGITAL
◾ Digital Copy $20 (From $25 tier and up)
◾ 2 Digital Copies $36 (From $25 tier and up)
◾ 3 Digital Copies $45 (From $25 tier and up)
◾ Digital Hi-res Map 7$ (From $5-$25)
◾ Digital Soundtrack 7$ (From $5-$25)

PHYSICAL

◾Backer T-shirt $20 (From $50-$85)






We’ll be continuing to update the pledges and add-ons and will be adding a Unique limited Tier every Friday from now on.

PayPal options will be added to the FAQ

Until next time

The Full Control JAF team
Mercenary Personalities & Backer Avatars

Dear backers,

A short weekend update :)

We’re slowing down a bit, but we’re past the critical 20% and there’s still 26 days to go. While we’re constantly tweaking the campaign and gathering feedback, we also need to focus on getting some press coverage to raise the overall awareness of our Kickstarter campaign.

We have some big news just around the corner, which we’re confident will boost the campaign and help us to reach our goal as well as improve the game.

Mercenary Personalities

One of the main complaints we had about recent attempts to make Jagged Alliance games was the removal of some of the humor and personality for each mercenary.

“Dont fix it if it ain’t broken” - remember?

So we are super happy to be able to bring back a lot of what defines the game - mercenary personality.

We are going to get back to the great 2d icons for each NPC and mercenary. They simply allow for much more personality than a generic 3d head that will never have as much detail as a well drawn 2d image. Together with some cool facial animations a lot of personality and feelings can be displayed.

Another very important aspect are the inter-team personalities. E.g. don’t put Fox and Buns together unless you want to listen to a cat fight making your ears bleed. While having the i-team working together will boost a teams performance.

A big amount of personality also comes from the voice over for the mercenaries. While we haven’t decided yet if we are going for English with a national accent - or having Ivan speak Russian only - we definitely want to get a strong personality shining through voice overs.

If you think you got what it takes to voice your favorite mercenary, or have an opinion on the English or non-English voice overs, head over to the comments section and tell us what you think!

Backer Avatars

For this short update we’re adding a set of backer avatar pictures, so that our backers can show their support and maybe spark the interest of other backers by commenting on other projects they’re currently backing.

We’ll be releasing additional avatar sets along the way, giving you more options to choose from.

A nice weekend to all!

The Full Control JAF Team
Post edited April 27, 2013 by JMich
thanks for all the updates much
haven't had a chance to read through everything lately.any idea about how many mercenaries would be available?.
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nijuu: thanks for all the updates much
haven't had a chance to read through everything lately.any idea about how many mercenaries would be available?.
No idea yet. But remember that it is a prequel, set ~10-15 years before JA2, thus not all mercs should be available. We should probably have a few new faces as well, but nothing set in stone yet. Should we have an answer to that question over at the pit, I'll let you know.