Congrats on the release Cherry team, devs, artists, GOG, everybody!
Already looks like an amazing game, just like the first one.

hi all, so, I just found out that eventually you can find an item in Silksong which solves the diagonal pogo issue:

The Crest of the Wanderer lets Hornet "cut swiftly and nimbly with short, precise strikes." In practice, this means that she swings her needle much faster but has shorter reach. The other bonus is that Hornet does a more traditional downwards Pogo attack where she lands vertically, instead of at a 45-degree angle.

(from Rock Paper Shotgun)

The diagonal pogo isn't an issue, if you attack close to the object the direction doesn't really matter

good to know :) maybe the main issue is using it not to kill enemies but to travel using bounce points?

not sure, I haven't reached a place yet where I wouldn't be able to go on without it

It is curious. Silksong is making me to feel Hollow Knight an easy game. They feel more different than it could be perceived at first look.
The two hearts of damage, the new diagonal pogo from the beggining, standard enemies with the double of hit points and moves, they need to be treated with even more caution, acting as microminibosses from the begginnig, Bosses with a lot more of hit points. Bosses combats feel longer.

Loving the game, they have achieved a masterpiece again, but I suspect they are going to balance a couple of details here and there.although the step up in difficulty is voluntary, designed and conscent. They wanted it in that way, it is a fact.

Even better is the Reaper's Crest because it has longer reach.
That's exactly the point. Traversing with diagonal Popgo is extremely ... unusual. It is possible but not easy. As I said, I switched to Reaper's Quest and no more pogo difficulties :)
Still boss difficulties though ... these guys are so hard. I am glad that I found a teleport mod which at least removed the walk of shame gameplay element which I never saw a reason for it to exist in the first place. I hated it in HK and I hate it in Silksong.If I need to fight a boss 50+ times to "git gud" enough ... there's no need for additional punishment anymore I'd say ;)

Personally I find the difficulty just fine and I don't consider myself by any means "good" lol having sooo many enemies deal double damage is admittedly silly but it makes you respect them which I like a lot (it's very Gothic-like) and bosses are doable after a few tries so I don't mind a bit of walk

A lot of this stuff will probably get nerfed in future patches which is a shame (the double damage I mean) because I'd rather they went overboard with the difficulty than fall short

They had better. It needs a lot of fixes. Not just difficulty, but especially all the other crap, like pay-per-use save spots (on top of an already REALLY bad/slow "economy"), and how long refilling shards takes (which makes tool use really hard to swallow), and the like. But I don't think they intended this felt experience. It's a symptom of "we only playtested it ourselves, and, over 7 years, we're pros so couldn't tell how bad everything really was".

But I do have faith they'll fix these things. They eventually made Hollow Knight the masterpiece it is, after many rounds of updates.

To paraphrase you: "I'd rather be elitest and expect most people not be able to experience the game, even if they were able to experience the game it's a sequel to rather fully.

Ever so many people -- I'll avoid saying "most" even though it probably is -- who experienced Hollow Knight, even through to an ending, can't make much or any progress in Silksong. It's just too tough. And not just the difficulty, but the platforming too. HK had some platforming challenges but it was nothing like what Silksong has all over.

That's the biggest problem: Silksong's not living up to being a sequel to one of the most beloved and regaled games ever that, while challenging, was fair and broadly approachable. Silksong's unfair, broadly exclusionary, and goes for cheap shots. (Without fixing the #1 complaint people had universally about HK: the walk from benches back to bosses or locked swarm room.)

I'd be fine with them adding an easy mode. However, I'd prefer they tweak "normal" mode so it's not this unhollowed mess for the standard experience it is. People can revert to original release (or they could do a "hard mode" setting) that preserves this current state.

Call what's there now the default "original challenge mode". Fix the normal (and don't label it anything unusual). Optionally add an 'easy' down the road. But the "normal" should be not really much worse than a standard Hollow Knight clear, else Silksong will continue to be looked upon in poor light as a sequel.

It won't be easy for them to do however -- because some of the platforming itself would need to change on the difficulty settings. Again, I say this as someone who did do HK rather thoroughly except the Pantheon and Path (I could get most of the way through it), and have done plenty of precision platformers like some of Guacamelee's towering areas, or all of Shovel Knight, and a full clear of Smelter, etc. I'm glad I could do it. But being able to do, e.g., the disappearing flower jumps over spikes that have enemies spawn on top of you for the way back should NOT be required for the basic full clear.)

The matter is not if the game is much more difficult without advise, in fights and platforming, but if in the current state is really balaced, and it involves natural learning and "git gud"
For 3 hours of gameplay or so I see this natural learning and "training" not so evident as is in the oiriginal, but I achieved things, slower, harder, and involving the double of attemps Hollow Knight forced me to make to advance and defeat and platform.
I can not imagine how the future difficulty can be. Who knows, maybe this game modifies the neural way of understand the standard difficulty in a metroidvania and it works hehehe...

Anyways Cathedral or Celeste are even harder, so they have not pushed too hard. I guess.

I didn't follow Hollow Knight's post development but is my understanding that each added DLC was harder because vocal people asked for it?

I think that's the cause of Silksong being more punishing than the older/younger sibling. People want hardddddd!

I recall a talk where one devs of Slay the Spire stated that that enabling telemetry changed the way they perceived the "vocal" fans as they were a big minority, and the way most people actually played was not the same.

What can I say? I like this level of challenge, it forces you to be wary and cautious of what an enemy might do next, instead of just tanking every hit like a wall

Hollow Knight had tank builds and I guess I wouldn't mind one in silksong, but it's the most boring way to play *by far* since you don't actually learn how to fight a boss or tough enemies, in Silksong I find myself swapping tools every now and then because most of them are offensive

The best advice I can give to someone having issues is: be patient and observe, all enemies have obvious windows to attack, and stick to the intended path until you have a nail and one or two silk ugrades (plus all the skills you get along the way)

Like, a lot of people can't progress through Hunter’s marsh (the ant tribe and pogo zone)... but that's a completely OPTIONAL area lol

There were plenty of rebalances and making the player stronger/etc along the way. The extra content was also just not really part of the game: A boss rush dungeon, a quest chain that made you explore the map again for a super hard fight at the end, etc. The other stuff they added were things like fast travel and stronger charms. (But the game also didn't start as ridiculously overtuned.)

But yeah, too many things in gaming (both tabletop and video) have been ruined by devs catering to the vocal minority of "make it as hard as it possibly can be!"