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TStael: snip
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sunshinecorp: Oh, I'd sure like to be paid to promote. If EA is listening, message me for details where to send payment. :D
Well, it is good that someone likes DLC. I apologize if I was ungenerous - only that most PC gamers hate cynical DLC.

In case of likes of Original Sin or Numenara, or Eternity - I have and will pay to crowdfund. And even pay for an expansion (Eternity), because I care about PC gaming in general, and deeply.

And Harper Lee.

Ever read, heard about? And parallel of Go Set a Watchman and ME3 ending controversy: if any?
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TStael: You say?

Besides. Harper Lee.

You read Mockingbird or Watchman? Or about them at least?

And even if not - is literary "controversy" ok in yer books?
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Leroux: To tell the truth, I'm not sure I understand what you're actually asking me here and for what purpose ...

Why should a controversy not be ok? Would you rather have the conflicting opinions censored? ;)

Whether it's interesting or relevant, now that would be a different question, depending on the case. I was speaking in general, not about Harper Lee.
And i was speaking of Harper Lee - because her case is both interesting and relevant.

She was subjected to a backlash, conspiracy theories even, to have wanted to publish again - Go Set a Watchman, as we all know.

The sonny of Peck speculating how his father might have wanted to "protect" Lee - whom published still living, to whom the said sonny could have taken his concerns private in good time - pretty disgusting to me.

Public criticized Lee for Watchman because their head-canon about Atticus Finch was disturpted. Lee meanwhile created all the CHAR's - so GSaW was hers, too, surely.

Having seen a backlash on such a literary figure as Lee, for a difficult character development - I had to ask myself if we gamers are any different with ME3.
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TStael: Having seen a backlash on such a literary figure as Lee, for a difficult character development - I had to ask myself if we gamers are any different with ME3.
Well, I don't believe in "we gamers" as a group anymore than I believe in "we readers" or "we people of the world" ... As I said I didn't take part in any of the ME3 controversy, and neither did you. And not everyone who actually spoke out against the ending of Mass Effect 3 did so with the intention of putting the pressure on Bioware to change it retroactively. I'm pretty sure that was a minority - vocal, aggressive, not too small, but still a minority of all the people who played through the game. I don't feel responsible for their actions, and I don't agree with them.

I haven't really followed the case of Harper Lee, but what I've read was mostly a controversy about the circumstances of the release in 2015, at her old age, not about censorship. You seem to have more insight into it, in case it's based on reliable sources, and it doesn't sound nice, but I still don't see the comparison to Mass Effect and why you would worry about it. Do you fear that you're prone to such fits of outrage over the ending of ME3 as well, once you'll have reached it?

The most prominent criticism of the ending, btw, was about the absence of real choices in a game that had seemed to make choices its main focus before, IIRC, so rather about feeling mislead by the gameplay than about the fate of the characters. You could argue that a game is a bit different than a novel (or any other pure work d'auteur) because it relies on the player taking part in the experience more actively. Or that Mass Effect is more of a commercial entertainment product paid for by big companies, aimed to please a huge audience and make a big profit, not a work of literature with sociocritical message that a publisher might support out of conviction even if it may not sell that well because the masses don't like what it has to say ...
Post edited February 20, 2016 by Leroux
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TStael: Having seen a backlash on such a literary figure as Lee, for a difficult character development - I had to ask myself if we gamers are any different with ME3.
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Leroux: Well, I don't believe in "we gamers" as a group anymore than I believe in "we readers" or "we people of the world" ... As I said I didn't take part in any of the ME3 controversy, and neither did you.

I haven't really followed the case of Harper Lee, but what I've read was mostly a controversy about the circumstances of the release in 2015, at her old age, not about censorship. You seem to have more insight into it, in case it's based on reliable sources,

The most prominent criticism of the ending, btw, was about the absence of real choices in a game that had seemed to make choices its main focus before, IIRC, so rather about feeling mislead by the gameplay than about the fate of the characters.
Well, you are more cynical than I - and that is fine.

But as much as I am a PC RPG gamer through-and-through, I genuinely think a FPS, or a console gamer is my potential bro or sis, as much as the casual gamer.

i genuinely like to think that gamers could be cool and supportive x-platform. Lest Bethesda and BioWare become console only.

As to Harper Lee - a journalist asked to know if she was fine about Watchman, but she told him to fouk off - or to "go away."

I do in fact anticipate that I might feel poorly about the ending, but as long as the single player war assets (post extended edition) allow any which one, probably I needs must stick with it.

BioWare was surely not honest about their advertisement - about sophisticated endings - but also perfumes and aftershaves are allowed to advertise quite openly with ridiculous promises.
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TStael: Well, you are more cynical than I - and that is fine.

But as much as I am a PC RPG gamer through-and-through, I genuinely think a FPS, or a console gamer is my potential bro or sis, as much as the casual gamer.
Hm, I wasn't aware that I could be perceived as cynical ... I just don't think gamers are a homogenous group that can speak with one voice. And I didn't mean to hint at any distinctions between PC and console, hardcore and casual, RPG or FPS aficionados, I mean individual human beings with their very own views, attitudes and preferences, each and every one of them. Especially if you include casual gamers, which I'm totally fine with, it's much too big a group to make any general statement about. Almost everyone is a gamer today. It's like saying all humans are brothers and sisters, which is true in a way, but also kind of meaningless as it's highly unlikely that humanity will ever act in unison. And mind you, I'm not saying some are better than others (unless they start bullying others), but they are all different.

Anyway ... I hope you'll look back at the Mass Effect series fondly regardless and the ending won't spoil it for you. Who knows, maybe you'll even enjoy it, against expectation? In any case, have fun! :)
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ShadowWulfe: Well, Jezebel just posted a good breakdown of how Atticus was always a racist. It dives into the idea of the enslaver's chivalry and the "good white person" patriarch.

The article proposes that Watchman wasn't quite as hamfisted as it would seem on the surface, just that the racism inherent to Atticus was more insidious.
>Jezebel
>good anything
HAHA.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Post edited February 20, 2016 by LiquidOxygen80
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ShadowWulfe: Well, Jezebel just posted a good breakdown of how Atticus was always a racist. It dives into the idea of the enslaver's chivalry and the "good white person" patriarch.

The article proposes that Watchman wasn't quite as hamfisted as it would seem on the surface, just that the racism inherent to Atticus was more insidious.
I frankly like conversation starters: and remain a bit perplexed about o'Toole not being awarded for Lawrence of Arabia.

There are not that many mandelas, suu kyis, or gandhis - those whom greatly transcend the powers that be.

Atticus was a child of his time, maybe. And standards got just a little more vigorous than with "Amazing Grace." (*)


(*) Road to Damascus while sticking to slave trade
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ShadowWulfe: Well, Jezebel just posted a good breakdown of how Atticus was always a racist. It dives into the idea of the enslaver's chivalry and the "good white person" patriarch.

The article proposes that Watchman wasn't quite as hamfisted as it would seem on the surface, just that the racism inherent to Atticus was more insidious.
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LiquidOxygen80: >Jezebel
>good anything
HAHA.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
You did not read the article, I take it - but posted thus.

To a thread that minds Harper Lee. (and ME3).

How come?
Post edited February 20, 2016 by TStael
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ShadowWulfe: Well, Jezebel just posted a good breakdown of how Atticus was always a racist. It dives into the idea of the enslaver's chivalry and the "good white person" patriarch.

The article proposes that Watchman wasn't quite as hamfisted as it would seem on the surface, just that the racism inherent to Atticus was more insidious.
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TStael: I frankly like conversation starters: and remain a bit perplexed about o'Toole not being awarded for Lawrence of Arabia.

There are not that many mandelas, suu kyis, or gandhis - those whom greatly transcend the powers that be.

Atticus was a child of his time, maybe. And standards got just a little more vigorous than with "Amazing Grace." (*)

(*) Road to Damascus while sticking to slave trade
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LiquidOxygen80: >Jezebel
>good anything
HAHA.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
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TStael: You did not read the article, I take it - but posted thus.

To a thread that minds Harper Lee. (and ME3).

How come?
Because I refuse to give that rag my ad click revenue, thanks. Besides, Jezebel has a reputation for being as bad as Gawker. That's all you need to know and all I'm going to say about it.
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LiquidOxygen80: Because I refuse to give that rag my ad click revenue, thanks. Besides, Jezebel has a reputation for being as bad as Gawker. That's all you need to know and all I'm going to say about it.
Then i think you do ill to post - rep does not equal source criticality, Source criticality is an independent thing.

And about Harper Lee, or Mass Effect 3, pray tell? :-)
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TStael:
Nah, he is right, Jezebel is mostly clickbait.

I saw the title and kind of thought about it, read it with low expectations, and walked away feeling like they defended their point well. I do think there's a fairly strong argument to be made that there is some deep seated underlying racism built into their family structure.

But what do I know, I'm just some jackass not bashing an easy target. The kneejerk reaction is to yell "right in the childhood!" when it comes to Watchman.
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ShadowWulfe: Nah, he is right, Jezebel is mostly clickbait.
I have an article there once or twice, and survived.

And anything about Lee or Mass Effect, though?
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sunshinecorp: ME: Bring Down the Sky
ME2: Zaeed - The Price of Revenge (gives you a squadmate)
ME2: Kasumi - Stolen Memory (gives you a squadmate)
ME2: Overlord
ME2: Lair of the Shadow Broker
ME2: Arrival
ME3: From Ashes (gives you a squadmate)
ME3: Extended Cut (free)
ME3: Leviathan
ME3: Omega
ME3: Citadel (best of the bunch)

All of these give you a lot of good content, storywise and character wise. Some are excellent, some are just good, but all are highly recommended. In fact, I think you're not even getting a complete Mass Effect experience without them.

You can of course safely skip any DLCs that are just appearance packs, weapons packs or action-mission packs, I haven't even listed them here because they don't offer much if anything at all.

Trust me. Get the DLCs I've listed. Or at the very least get the ones that grant you extra squadmates and the Citadel DLC.
PS. I think DLC at best gives further mileage for a game that has been, and shall be, played through-and-through.

Dragon Age Origin's for example.

A DLC practice I am very stroppy about is not minding release version quality, when almost day one DLC is available.

Dragon Age Inquisition was a disgrace on release for PC - btw. DLC did not linger.


In case of Mass Effect 3 - writing a bad ending, and milking it some more as DLC - I hope it delivers story-wise, but to make BW / EA more profitable for it just goes against my better principles.