Pooka and Lift have eaten all the oxygen.

...are we playing in the same game? I'm barely here by comparison, and I still see the big push on Lift.

Speaking of question marks, you're a big one. I can't tell if you need removal or if the scum are elsewhere. What do you think about those who haven't been on the hot seat?

In the spirit of cooperation (and not being accused of just fishing for information), I'll go first.

I think I've already covered Pooka, Buck, and Gogtrial in my recent posts.

I think there's one scum in Lift + HSL. I'm just not sure which. I don't see scum!HSL making the push he did in 536 if they are scum buddies; it feels like there are too many pieces there that are good mixed in with too many pieces that aren't good. Likewise, people have made good notations on Lift being likely scum (easy ex. is 536 again), and I don't think Lift has exonerated himself very well. If HSL flips scum, then I'm inclined to clear Lift as just playing poorly, possibly due to Real Lift. If Lift flips scum, then I'm inclined to think HSL is Town; however, I have a burning memory of me clearing HSL as Town in a prior game because he did something scum just wouldn't have done (he waffled hard between two town wagons on D1 and got No Lynch out of it; post-game scum thread revealed it was deliberate).

Catte and Joe both feel like they are lurking. Neither one feels particularly different from usual (beyond the 2 Joe posts I noted early), and I don't know what to do about it any more than in any previous game. Hopefully someone can clear or damn them eventually, because I don't believe a lynch is going to hit either one.

I'm not sure what to make of Yog. His vote has been pretty low effort, and I don't know if disinterest, scumhood, or life are holding him back. I've had precious little to say because there's been precious little to comment on.

I've been getting an overall Town feel from Dessimu. His posting hasn't raised any alarm bells, and there are plenty of scummier targets.

Micro is messy, and he has always been a harder read for it. There's potential for scum here, but there are simply better targets right now.

Obviously I think Cadaver needs removal. I don't even care about his alignment anymore.

I had to cycle through your post, Lift's post, and Gogtrial's post more than once, but I see what you mean now.

I don't agree with your premise, since Lift's paragraph mentioning Condemner also says "and yet you don't! Instead you say you are relatively sure that it was a flawed joke (and therefore not a slip)." which was also in Gogtrial's Post 343 (the post Lift quoted, but not in the section he quoted). To me, the obvious explanation is an expected move of the vote after Carradice's wink wink.

-----

Dang it. I was about to be excited that there were less than 40 posts left to read, but another page has appeared.
I'm up to 721 and I see I've got some pings.

I meant this dialogue between Lift and HSL
to which Lift only partly responded in 728
and then HSL said

ALSO @HSL check Gogtrials 620 re Bookwyrm... despite voting to start a 3rd wagon.

Sorry, but I read "scumhood" as "scumlord" and all I can think of right now, is
Yogsloth, The Scum Lord! xD
fluff, this is just fluff

lol

just no

a bunch of hibbilty-bibble about obscure mafia roles or mechanics that no sane person cares about?

I now resent you for making me even read that

You owe me a Snickers bar

Elsewhere.

I already said some stuff about Catte and Cadaver in #655 which haven't changed a whole lot. In fact my feeling about Cadaver has probably deepened since.

TL;DR: Cadaver more likely Town which is ironic, Catte - neutral at best, scummy at worst.

Dessimu is starting to freak me out a bit. I think he had a great D1 but he has been posting some things that make me feel uneasy and second guessing my read on him. I still like to think he's leaning more Town but I'm no longer so sure about it. One of the reasons I like Pooka's wagon is because Dessimu appears to be outspokenly against it. He was already among the main pushers of Carradice's wagon - obviously that may be bad luck but if Pooka happens to flip scum I'd probably reconsider my previous reads. I still like to think he's Town but if he isn't he's been doing a pretty good job.

Joe was my other strongest Town read from D1. He's been mostly gone since or at least I can't remember anything meaningful he's said on D2 so it's almost as he hasn't done so at all. That doesn't make him scummy automatically as he tends to disappear from games but let's say it's making his initial Townie appearance decay somewhat. I still don't have a good reason to suspect at this moment.

On D1 I thought Micro is the scummiest player around because of his inconsistency of things he said he'd do (or better yet things he won't do) and his immediate actions afterwards. For D1 that was enough to place a vote. Today he's been a bit more active and more resembling his normal self so I'm not so sure anymore. NAI at best, slightly scummy at worst but keep in mind that I'm usually scum-reading him so who knows if I'm not doing that here again.

Gogtrial is among the more (most?) active players which is always nice and I like some of his stuff but every now and again getting scared he's active scum which almost always make people look better than they are (almost always). I really can't be sure but I'd say currently he's leaning more towards the Townier side of things rather than the scummier one. I hope things around him will clear up a bit after we get a bit more information in terms of flip and/or some night actions.

Similar thing with HSL but a bit in reverse. Initially I was a bit more concerned about him as he feels somewhat different from what I've gotten used to from our past games together. Back then when he was more active I liked to think I could feel him being scum (I've guessed correctly more than once) so I thought the same may be happening again this time. Someone asked him and he said he's rusty, tired and burdened by IRL which makes a lot of sense as I sort of expected that to be the more likely reason (I know he's been away for a good while from our games because of health issues and IRL in general). I'm pretty sure he's not among the people who would be hiding behind IRL when they aren't on point. He also seems to be trying to solve the game so in general my feeling about him has improved since D1. Townie side.

I like bucktooth's posts in terms of general feel but some of the things he write don't always resonate with my own views. He seems to be comfortable in the game which usually is more likely for Town players who don't have so much to hide and worry about. Then again he's proved he's a capable player so who knows if he isn't a well-handled scum. Neutral at the moment.

Yog is dead neutral to me. I think he's heavily related to Pooka's wagon and that's one more benefit in Pooka's flip for me. If Pooka flips scum I don't see Yog being one as well unless ruthless bus pretty much out of the gate.

You're neutral to me at best. I don't remember a whole lot of what you've saying but I think Today's flip (assuming it's going to be one of Lift or Pooka) may shift things one way or another. We'll see.

I think that should be everyone but if I missed someone it's because he didn't make a strong impression on me so most likely neutral.

@gogtrial34987/post #750 - I'm bookmarking this for after a flip or two. And hey, thanks for reminding me that JoeSapphire not doing his entertaining read-lists is a scum tell.


@Dessimu/post #752 - agentcarr16 and Leonard03.


@Microfish_1/post #760
-- regarding Cadaver747/yogsloth: it says nothing at the moment.
-- How could you have assumed that Bookwytm627 was on Lifthrasil's wagon when the very vote count you posted shows he's voting Cadaver747?
-- "You say a "suspicious mind might think....". Does yours?" - Does ii? Let me think.
-- "i swapped "Pooka" and "LIft" in my brain as I wrote that" - I wonder why, hmm...
-- "Good catch [...]" - well, you obliterated my 1st question to you in post #735, and ignored the first paragraph of Lithrasil's post #749 to you, so there's that.
-- post #768 - not sure I get what you want to point out there?


@dedoporno/post #771 - you forgot Lifthrasil. And I said I"m rusty, busy and devolved.


And with that, I'm signing off for tonight. See you all tomorrow.

Assuming you mean Cadaver (whom I'm voting) instead of Lift, then just read my previous posts about him. I've been reading him as scum since Day 1, which has broadened into "he's trying to get himself killed. I'm willing to help him remove the distraction and walls." and personal annoyance on my part (which isn't very Town behavior, oh well).

Would Pooka be a better lynch than Cadaver? Probably, in part because Cadaver's apparently suicidal impulse means he's more likely to be town, and also because an unlynched Pooka could easily continue to dominate the conversation. That said, I'm guessing a Pooka lynch today means a Lift lynch tomorrow, and vice versa.

I wasn't talking about who was on the wagon, I was talking about who was pushing it. One does not need to be on a wagon to encourage it.

This also seems a good time to note: While I only quoted Dessimu's response, several people queried about my list. If my explanation still seems incomplete for your particular question, please ask again.

Oh. That makes sense, actually.

I'm not going to do a thing to persuade anyone to pick Lift over Pooka or Pooka over Lift.

Is Gogtrial the only one you'd be re-evaluating?

I have some other pings from this post as well.

---

So close to being current, but the youngin' wants my attention and this page doesn't look short. *sob*
I'm up to 761.

I didn't. Wyrm asked specifically about players that aren't on the hot seat. I've spoken about Lift not long ago. To you, as a matter of fact.

I'm back and catching up.

Willing to vote: Pooka, Gogtrial, Book, Dedo and wondering about Dessimu.
Curious about Lurkers.

My ISO is not done yet. It's 20 hours left:
https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20220428T21&p0=1457&font=cursive

Will Lynch anyone at L-1 (except for Pooka for which I already voted hence can't add to that) if nobody reacts by the deadline

1. Yogs/Cadaver: okay
2. Book had been very anti-Lift iirc earlier (memory is hazy, but it was mentioned in one of gogtrials's posts that i referenced earlier, I forget which rn and am on borrowed time rn)
It was a. About Yogsloth. and b. I just don't know. I've forgotten why i asked it other than to get your reads on that situation.

"People think pooka lied, stumbled while trying to explain, and just kept stumbling (or the accusers kept tunneling) until we have reads on half of the players here. " You asked me to reword this
I meant,
"People think Pooka lied with the refresh/no-refresh thing, tried to sort it out and got mixed up in his own lie. The more he tried to explain the deeper he dug his own pit, and then fell into it. Or so say the Tunnelers. So many people have commented on it that we have basically everyone's take on Pooka, regardless of how he flips.

I mentioned this already @HSL.
I miscounted Lift's spot on D1. the bit about they couldn't be on Carradice's wagon on D2 is so obvious it didn't need a response. What I was doing was contrasting those who were on Town!Carradice on D1 with what wagons they were on on D2.

hands Yogs a snickers bar
What I meant was...do you think there is merit to HSL's accusation that Lift deliberately did not reply to HSL's question? @Book
you stated Does this mean you prefer a Lift wagon? I don't see one developing on Cadaver toDay

Gogtrials and yogs would be the two I'd most evaluate, yes, but I might glance at others, too.

Dessimu I need to reread; I haven't paid a lot of super-critical attention to Him toDay because of how solid his D1 felt.

I think I've read everything. Ping me If i've skipped anything please.

1) 2) 3) 4) 5) 6) 7) 8) 9) 1) You mean adding the numbers inside your (or others') quotes or outside them? Putting them inside will save some space on line separation, it would also technically change your quote and in case someone answered with the number already in it, adding another one would be cumbersome (e.g. 2) 8) blah-blah-blah quote) changing the number to the one which corresponds with the final reply looks more convenient, but I digress and there so little time left.

2) Yes and no. It *sucks balls* (Pooka™) on so many levels, yet there is some beauty in it. I wonder why it's draining you so heavy mentally, there are not that many posts of yours and if you accept the very possibility of your demise doesn't it open up the will to say your final words freely and without fear. Instead of feeling *guilty of sucking for Town play* you could at least try to make your last stand memorable. It's just a game, even if stressful at times.
Moar Pooka! Don't be afraid to surprise us! My dear sweet Pookina, love of my life! ;)
[Sorry I become a bit sentimental, reminiscing some great moments with Pookina-Town and me-Town in one Mafia game, where Pooka were(was?) a lady]

3) In my first GOG Mafia game and in several games after players used to say that Lurking practically means Mafia. And not because Mafia is lazy even but because it's much easier to abstain from saying something suspicious or from making a human error and get an accidental lynch for that.
And I can see that Micro provided you with such an example in post 699:
So for me it seems there is such a thing as *pro-Mafia Lurker*. For instance Yog would be an awesome Mafia player for his playstyle you it's almost impossible to accuse him of anything other than lurking and laughing most of the time ;)

4) Before that you named HSL and Lift as your Scum leads.
Let me check your recent posts quickly...
> Hmm, some interesting titbits with Lift, you are not going to claim at L-1 even, ZFR wouldn't like it probably, perhaps it's a normal reaction for depressed/angry Town nearing a lynch, especially after Carradice's example, I don't see how not claiming at L-1 is not worth it unless you are Mafia or Town Vanilla of course, no idea if you were hinting at that or you genuinely just don't believe in good Town anymore,
> Micro's claim query could be interpreted in a bad way, yeah. Personally I can see that it's possible for any alignment to say this, again based on my experience with ZFR, I thought it's normal to do just that:
And no more Mafia leads from you. I guess *Fable D2 Pooka* was a lie, not that you are lying per se, you just gave up pretty easily, just like Carradice. If you are Town and Mafia wins because of your downplay there will be no pride in such a victory, I can't see how your explanation should persuade me or others that you are Town if you prefer to lie down and die without fight, this is anti-Town behavior, but you still have ~18 hours to change your life for the better, Pooka!

5) Keyword: "IF" ;)
Pooka, please show me the will and strength to fight if you want to show how you "would have zero interest in continuing to be clumsy and more to invest and do better." You're not investing that much and I don't know why I even bother to ask you to be motivated over and over while *comfortably sitting* on your wagon (Dessimu™). All I can see for now is 3 possible suspects (HSL, Lift and to some extent Micro), elaboration on Lift and lots of complaints and depressive remarks.
The part "I like to be honest, and I'm not Mafia" - noted your claim, thank you.

6) I would say you remind me of me, but those things tend to backfire on people, me included.
It's not much of an explanation or a reason. You are a grown-up person and a professional Mafia player with great experience, no one should hold you by hand! How could you say that even? How many times should I repeat myself that your quickhammer is not a problem but execution of that hammer and more importantly the follow-up explanation.
And you even stated how you haven't read (by mistake) after post#400 and Gogtrial mentioned that it's L-1, if it's not a *hold it* message to you than what is, and you haven't seen it (L-1 post) yet you complained about not having something you weren't paying attention to.
It's hard to believe, Pooka.

7) I wasn't paying much attention to any GOG Mafia for which I was not present, I saw only one where 3 players were left and the end and Dedo got the deciding vote on which Town to lynch and won that game. As for the no D1 lynches, I saw some of them also, maybe it was in that game with Dedo as well but I'm not sure. Sorry I usually spend my free time *for pleasure* on playing games and reading books more than reading GOG Mafia.
(@Dedo, you did good in that game)

@All, don't you worry I'll be with you till the end of DAY without any IRL breaks. I have my alarm activated and slept well. That's a promise!

8) OK

9) Fair enough, again nothing wrong with lynching another player and save your life for any alignment. That was not my point.

No, I don't. My life, my rules.

Because we are *comfortably sitting* (Dessimu™) on different wagons (Pooka vs Lift), because you and Gogtrial I think mused how Lift was following after my votes (I wonder if he followed other players' votes) and you don't like Lift behavior for a Town hence it's only fitting for your mind to play the idea that me and Lift are Mafia goons, that I even might have tried to protect him with my inquiry to Joe where Lift was following after Micro's wagon and lastly that I fully disagree with your notion on how Maxleod NK was made for a the sake of PR hunting among Town players.

In other words it's easier for you to think of me as Mafia. Even though you are no sure you have anything on me. My words, not yours. I can't look into your mind, after all you are my *Mafia-Infernale* and for a good reason.

I think it's better for me to stay till the very end, thank you for your concern (also I have my obligations after I made a promise). I'm not trying to lynch myself mind you even you it looked that way to you personally. As for the hurting my team, I presume you meant Town, we'll see about that in due time. Let's not discuss it again please (replacement imitative).

My bad and I intend to make something useful, and easy to read, in next several hours unless someone hammer.

@All, please don't hammer yet!

Can't complain, in case Mafia is irrational my plan could have worked better than I expected. How's yours doing?

@Pooka, I missed your post #727, sorry.
Yogs - rubs the wrong way
Micro - for a second time for his claim mentioning
HSL - is better now
Joe and Book - suspicious

Moving on...

@Dessimu, who was suggesting 3 Mafia players hence *shielding* the possible 4th Mafia goon as a "more likely scenario" in your opinion? Does it include yourself? If suggesting 3 Mafia is scummy do you mean that you are Mafia as well based on your own standards or it's easier to exclude yourself? Also how come that I wasn't suggested that there are 4 Mafia players and not 3?

Here's Book's:
You tell me. Also why Cadaver and Book only without mentioning other players who mused about number of Mafia players - I think there could be at least one more, no?

Who needs it anyway when you can shade away without looking back ;)

Please proceed, Dessimu.

Could you please elaborate further on why my name is in that list? yes I voted for carradice at one point in D1 but I was on the pooka wagon by the end of D1

If I am in a spot where the top 2-3 wagons are people that I read strong town vibes I would place a vote elsewhere based on my scum reads. In turn, if someone REALLLY reads scum to me I will try and plead my case why and try and convince others to follow suit


Honestly I feel pretty okay with either of these wagons right now. With the info we have right now I would feel okay with putting my D3 vote on whichever one does not get lynched D2. I will also be paying a bit more attention to Dessimu moving forward if pooka does flip scum.