I just thought to myself, how every forum Mafia game is basically a bunch of random people agreeing to very responsibly point fingers at each other for like, a month. I swear, it feels like every day is filled with a ton purpose right now...

Am I a joke to you?! Explain yourself!

Wrong, Mafia player would argue about stupid NK to gain more Town points (to look like puzzled, in my case pissed, Town player). Your reason makes no sense - because Mafia players would argue via Mafia Day Chat. And where did I *disagreed* about NK please?

Perhaps Mafia NK was not so bad, who knows.

My theory is that your weren't killed by Mafia. Yes, you heard me right and this is not a claim but a theory.
I don't believe in stupid Mafia, never will, and that NK was stupid. The only logical possibility I see (and which I posted somewhere) is that Pooka could be Town and Mafia decided to put an additional blame on Pooka for his quick hammer, because if they killed someone else angry Town mob just might have wanted to lynch you instead. But it's super far fetched.

Another theory, is that ZFR did something to Mafia roles (without crossing the *no bastard* elements but at the same moment very close).

What if Mafia NK target someone but that target was either protected by Town PR, redirected by who knows what or that target had a Bulletproof vest? What if Maxleod was killed by Town or even Neutral with Compulsive modifier?

If you think that I'm trying to say something about me, think again, that was not a claim, hint or a breadcrumb. That was a food for thought.

I would know that we eliminated a Town player who can't control himself with his shifty hammer and help me and others with Town investigation / deduction activity. I don't remember who said that, Lift probably, but I agree: if you would have claimed something like this: *It is I, Pooka, I killed Carradice in cold blood because it's either me or him, no second chances, my life was at stake, blah-blah-blah quickhammer was a must*, I would believe you or at least I would consider your Town possibility with greater window of possibilities. But you confessed that during Mafia game you weren't paying much attention while striking the last blow.

(I know you quoted much more of me and you might expect me to say more as well - I will revert back to you later)
Yes, YOU can read it ONLY as scum!Cadaver. Neat indeed.

Carradice made a *joke* about good old times at Stanley Hotel. You were the first player to mention Condemnder role. I read about Condemner role (there was a link somewhere). You were not Condemners in that Stanley Hotel (you said it yourself just now), other players at Stanley Hotel called you Jesters back then. What am I confusing with what exactly?

Anyone want to give their input to a theory I have that the scum team is comprised entirely/majorly of players from the recent SH game? I feel like unless Cadaver's PR theory(that I honestly did not think of) holds water, it would make the most sense for people who have already played with Max to not see them being under the "newbie protection".

Just to break it down, the pool of this potential team would be:

lift
dedo
Joe
Cadaver
buck(your's truly)
micro(moderated the game)
pooka

this leaves the remaining players as:

HSL
Dessimu
ettac
book
gogtrial
yogsloth

as it has been discussed quite a few times this game already, the new player protection for D1 and N1 is pretty consistent between games. ESPECIALLY someone who's low post count would imply they were trying to get a feel for how the game works, it seems odd for anyone in this community to pull the trigger on such a player even if it would mean a townie down with little info to grab from it.

Not to say that the WHOLE scum team needs to consist of players from the SH game, even a majority of the scum having previous knowledge of Max as a player could have influenced the NK decision.

I know this theory puts a huge weight into what is a un-official protection of new players, but I just have a hard time believing that a new player going down N1 would have been caused by a group of players who a majority of would have seen this as Max's first time playing.

@ZFR
^ I made a second double-post, sorry.

Cool. OK, maybe. I'm asking ALL, haven't I mentioned @all? Who the heck are *mafia-all*? If you meant that was asking Mafia Players to provide their insights - that is something even I could not consider (extremely crazy), if you meant that it was some kind of trap, there is a chance and someone reacted already. But Mafia would either keep their mouths shut (if they are clever) or accuse me of something (if they are not clever). Like I said I expect Mafia to be clever.

Pooka's wagon was no better that Micro's, at the same time Carradice's wagon was a bit better that Pooka's, in my opinion every post of Carradice was incredibly suspicious and I was quite surprised how several players were not thinking that way, also Carradice addressed me only once and it was too late anyway.
Biggest sin of Pooka was not only lurking but generating unhelpful posts (I'm going to ISO Carradice for 3 votes - This is the reason for these 3 votes?), and Carradice named Pooka as active player and voted you without switching to Pooka till the very end.

Yes

Pooka is lurker no more, he manifested into new form of *Fabled D2 Pooka*. I don't care about new or old players, I'm too old to be sentimental about something so artificial. Carradice (irrational), Micro (irrational), Pooka (I had nothing on him on D1 besider lurkiness and sh!tting all over the place in just a few posts), Yog (let's kill Pooka but leave Carradice alone) and Dedo (same but with addition - I would hammer Carradice if there is no other choice) - those were my viable Mafia-like target on D1.

As for D2 - Absolutely no idea. I suspect that some players were not very active since D2 started, almost like they are fine with us talking with each other without mentioning them. Like I said I think the answer to Mafia question lies in Votes pattern and Wagon generating. Gogtrial (was it a real time Pooka accusation? - only Scum could say that about Maxleod - you are confusing Condemner role ALL THE TIME) and Dedo (cadaver did it in real time) - in my opinion they are happy to think that I could be Mafia (guts?) and I'm not sure it's a good sign for them both. There is also Book who even placed a vote on me, but I can't think he could be Mafia just for that vote, can't say for now if his posts were illogical or not. And you, Dessimu - you would be a good Mafia player but I was not able to find anything concrete on you yet. Lift - he is still NAI, it''s almost look like he is trying to look like Neutral even, Pooka is arrogant and bored - he acted the same one time when he was Mafia but it's Pooka's modus operandi or so they say.

What I can't stand is Lurkers! Especially on D2. I would poke them, poke them hard and make them suffer ;)

ZFR might punish me, this time for real.

Hmm, only IF we lynch Pooka and he flips Mafia. But it would also mean that there is no 24/7 chat. Double *hmm*. (Gogtrial, please don't poke me for this, it's elaborated already).

No idea. I played with Carradice only twice. First time it was Stanley Hotel game and Carradice was like that and gained himself a fairly quick lynch which was part of the plan and earned him a victory together with Gogtrial hence a *joke*. Thw second time Carradice was Mafia and he was super charming and helpful, he even created a spreadsheet of all players and their traits (I was the most aggressive in that spreadsheet for instance), then Carradice got annoyed with me for quoting him *incorrectly* and we had a small fight and I was NK afterwards most probably by mistake (I was not the best target but it saved the Town). Current game was the third time, I haven't seen Carradice for more than a year and I can't say why he did what he did (pocketing book at the beginning, accusing Dedo for not being active out of the blue, not voting Pooka till death, accusing players who voted him). Here is my opinion: no idea.

Same here: it was irrational behavior on so many aspects. All the more reason (for me) to suspect those who haven't seen it (Mafia knows who is Town and might not want accuse Town players out of fear for retribution).

No idea, there are lurkers here (Mafia might want to keep low profile for a while, gather Town ideas and then use them against Town players - because why not?) and I haven't read the posts from those players who are actually participating in the game.
But you may check here:
Defending Pooka is suicadal. If he is Mafia defending Pooka by his Mafia companions is insane.

Yes, Carradice is Town and this does not work anymore. As for Yog - what can I say, I'm staring to like him and still suspect him, also Dedo, Micro, Joe and Pooka. Book - no idea, have not read properly his latest posts yet.

If we had lynched Pooka on D1 and Pooka flipped Town at the end I would vote Carradice on D2.
If Maxleod would survive the D1 I would accuse him of being Mafia and vote as well.

I'm sorry this makes no sense, not the part that I could be Mafia, but the link between Cadaver-Yog. If Cadaver is Mafia - Yog is anything, Town or Mafia (or Neutral even). I don't see how you are so certain that Cadaver-Mafia will make a good Town citizen out of Yog just like that.

Are you saying that the whole reason for Mafia to execute that NK was the idea that he might have a PR? I really don't think so. In place of Mafia (if they are no stupid of course which they might be if it's the case) I would search for players who might have *breadcrumb* their possible PRs. And like I mentioned before Maxleod is a perfect Town player for Mafia since he would attract all the attention to himself.

Lift was quite pissed with Micro almost all the D1 since his vote on Dedo, and I can't blame him for that. Sometimes I think that Lift dislikes the lying players even more than I. Lift is not a fan of unnecessary jokes and he was annoyed by Joe's question about my pm. Carradice was not his primary subject until later when he ISOed our posts more. I think Lift is after Micro still, as for the *awfully close* - maybe? I'm not going to suspect players for having same suspects or *awfully close* list of suspects anyway. For me Lift is super NAI, and I can only respect his willingness to punish liars!
Yet again I suggest you to check the wagons and votes pattern (if you haven't already) + add here lurking players with sudden appearance for vote and backing off afterwards.

So, Lift's suspects: Yogsloth, JoeSapphire, Microfish, Carradice, Pooka.
Cadaver's suspects: Yogsloth, JoeSapphire, Microfish, Carradice, Pooka, Max, Dedoporno and Bookwyrm

Yes! What does it mean? Could you also check your list against mine? I want to win a lottery.

sorry, I have to have a vote count in order to even think in a straight line

unofficial- I think that's it

Interesting. What about me? Buck was following Lift and Lift was following me or what? Since when Mafia players following each other? I thought they would do their best no never cross each other, pretend to have a conflicts on occasion and in the end after some time wasting *consideration* jump on a leaving wagon with the excuse "better to lynch someone I don't suspect even now - then no lynch at all" nonsense.
But then again - "everything can be anything".

Yes, first you need to put more shade on me, than search for those who suspect me for various reasons to make a viable wagon. Voting me now might cost you your reputation. Perhaps later.

Yes.
I would do the very same in both cases, Mafia should act like Town, if player has no idea what it is then - act the same way as before. This is my normal behavior, I am a bit rude, I'm aggressive at times, and I'm pissed when someone call me a liar discuss my probability of being a liar. Also I'm not a fan on alignment jokes and pm pokes as much as I don't like irrational logic or contradictions.
Not sure about Neutral though, maybe I would just lurk all the way or act like a crazy person for the fun of it.
(not a claim of any of those alignments)
OK, good. Make a good work of it.

see here:
We'll see about that. Since you mentioned Pooka's name in your *schemes of possibility* - quite the contrary, it will say something about you. After all *it's all what ifs* and *everything can be anything*, right?
I'm glad that you are so certain about so many uncertainties and I hope you are trying to manipulate our thought process more than needed.

Let's lynch Cadaver and see if he is Mafia first, right? If he is Town - oh well, nothing concrete on Yog. Sounds comfy ;)

Thank you!

And that Town might even protect the Carradice from NK, and Mafia might even consider another target - the same Maxleod even, or if they have Strongman they might have expected some kind of protection and send an ultimate killer to kill Carradice for certain, but then again Town might have some specific PR for just that and eliminate the Mafia Strongman in the process. OMG, so many possibilities, what fun! (again, not a claim)

Carradice played bad in all circumstances, including Pooka-the-quickhammer-Town possibility.

Yes, Pooka's wagon is a *lazy wagon*. For the desecration of Town Codex he well earned the death penalty. What if Pooka is Mafia and you are Mafia?
That would fit well with your sudden suspecting me and those *who had similar votes or list of suspects*. But anyway I think lynching me would help you a lot in your search for truth (or death, whatever the cause), good luck!

Was it an off-topic or are you trying to say something here?

should have put this in the last post to compare

Do note

HSL and Dessimu are voting the counter-wagon to Pooka

both times

Maybe bookwyrm up there too, as I assume cadaver is a vanity wagon with zero chance to roll, we'll see what he does

me and gogtrial the only doodz on both times



ok what's Pooka actually up too, lets me check

this is an ungood answer

"HSL is my only suspect, but that's because of some other game none of us are playing at the moment"

look guys

I know you all want to write these massive wall posts with about a billion words in each

but sometimes mafia is really hard and sometimes it's easier than it looks

I hate to be this way sometimes, but I am actually about as confident as I get here

If Pooka turns out to be town and is actually being this way on purpose and we ran T/T wagons on Day 1, well then, just lol!him and lol!us

but... yeah

occam's razor and all that

Ouch my head. I woke up with headache and fever. I don't have the concentration to go through all these walls of text now. I'll try later. First I'll go back to bed.

You were drinking with Yogs again, weren't you?

Oh really? Here are two sentences for you:
1. Yog and Dedo <<said that they>> are not going to vote Carradice no matter what.
2. Yog and Dedo are not going to vote Carradice no matter what <<I think>>.
When I expressed my opinion I did not mean that those were their exact words. Gogtrial said that only Scum!Cadaver could have said that about Mafia NK but I have not been saying that I'm Scum. Great logic, yes?

But anyway, let's play your game.

Dedo:
No Carradice here, then after I pressed a bit:
Dedo adjusted his statement to:
Dedo was not going to vote Carradice unless it's a L-1 and there are no better candidates for a lynch. Unfortunately even if it was the case we never know since both Carradice and Pooka wagons seems viable and Pooka can't handle his hammer.

Oho.

I still don't get it. Should I have stayed on the same topic and for how long. Was it suspecting? I have not fully discussed the previous topic or what? Maybe we should get back and start over?

Yes, if someone get a link in PM they are Mafia. What part I ignored again and where? I don't get you! Your demonstration failed on me, perhaps I'm not so bright or maybe it's a language barrier or your want me to say something specific. So, again, let's get back to the topic which I *ignored* and start over.
Ask me a direct question for GOG's sake!

I agreed that less that 3 Mafia is unlikely.
- "but seemingly didn't realize that Dessimu did not preclude more than 3 mafia." - That isn't what I've been saying. At all.

Thank you. So 25% guideline, but at the same time 26% feels high and 20% is okay? Why is 26% is not good (*feels high*) if it's 1% diff.? And yes, ZFR could balance the game with additional PRs or bring some Neutrals into the game.

I acknowledge that I read the above and I don't understand what do you want from me.

I brought it up, ok. My joke was not funny for you - ok. I don't care really.

I don't care - part 2.

Yes, absolutely. I wonder who is more stupid Mafia or Town some times. Pooka might be Town with or without my interaction with him. With or without. I will say it again - with or without.
Mafia knows who is Town. So if Pooka is Town and we lynch him you might as well get some Town points for that.
In case you don't understand - you can be Mafia for everything you just said and for shading me for nothing in particular, vague assumptions and baseless accusations.

I don't care - part 3.

It's time for a wider context I guess.