Oh, for crying out loud, not this again.

2 Mafioso in a 12 player game is already unbalanced towards Mafia Why would catte unbalance it even further by making it 3?

He even made a straw poll, back when we had 10 players, on whether to include 1 or 2. One. Or. Two.
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/who_wants_to_play_forum_mafia/post109

He's not going to make it 3. I mean he could, but that would make it very bastard, since the sign up thread discussion stated he won't. If we believe that, we might as well believe he bastarded the game even more. By including a Cop or a Survivor.

Let's see if we can put this to rest by asking for direct confirmation. Worst case he'll say no.

@mod: Can you confirm there are 2 Mafiosi in this setup?

I won't confirm the numbers as this isn't an open setup per se, but the sign up thread contains publicly available information on balancing and I encourage all interested players to read it and draw their own conclusions.

do you think bucktooth is genuine when he claims to be uncertain how many mafias there are?

ah I see, you thought I'd stated an interest in korotan after trent had voted himself out of the game.

how certain are you that my interest means I think someone's scum?

He could well be.

Yes, precisely.

All I'm certain of is that typically taking interest in a players voting behavior would be made outwardly apparent only in the event that said players voting behavior differs from your own.

For example:
"I believe X is scum, player Y has also voted for X, I find that interesting"

Unless you have prior evidence of Y acting scummy, why would you make a point to post your interest in Ys voting behavior if it was to mimic your own feelings?

Like I said prior, I have no desire to dig further into your comment now that it came before the hammer. as it adds way to many variables for it to be suspicious to me anymore.

I'm unsure. His reply seems genuine enough, but the original 'assumption' statement may have been a safety statement as an effort not to reveal that he knows how many scum there are as a fact.

However, the last speculation about a 'number of scum' statement proved false. Trent's irritation about the, in his eyes, underpowered Mafia size didn't come from him being scum. So, while bucktooth's 'assumption' struck me as odd, I don't think it is enough to make him lean scum.

Just as ZFR pushing against trent on D1 doesn't make him scum either. The inverse would have been true. Scum trent would have meant town ZFR. But town trent doesn't automatically mean scum ZFR.

I went through Korotan's posts (it wasn't a very long read). The only real somewhat meaningful interactions with other players outside of fluff and mostly irrelevant stuff are with Lifthrasil and Joe. Lift's were some musings on how Korotan could be scum latching to ZFR's tactic and Joe was noticing Korotan's switch from NL to Trent. Neither of these things seems like a good reason on it's own for picking him out of the bunch.

So aside from accusing bucktooth for assuming the whole two-scum thing and Lift immediately calling him out for that, there is nothing interesting today.

I believe that at least one scum has been on the trent wagon. I'd like to imagine, what with how all the votes are scattered across players, that trent wouldn't really attain majority if 1) he didn't self-hammer and 2) none of the scum jumped on him, which I'm assuming to be one. Aside from the bragging rights, his actions late-Day made me read him as Town enough to deserve making it to the next day, a point I made in the pen-ultimate post on that Day. Perhaps I should've posted it earlier? And this is why I think there's only one scum on trent's wagon. Korotan seems like a low-info kill, but it gives us just two less people we can suspect out of the seven-people wagon:

ZFR - dedoporno - nmillar - GH - Lift

Alright, cool, so my working theory is that one of the scum is on this wagon. That Lift is there feeds back into the whole thing about him being suspicious the previous Day, but I can do better than tunnel on him, and pay better attention to the other four.

One of the other scum is in everyone else. That group being:

bucktoothgamer - joppo - JoeSapphire - Microfish

IIRC, Microfish voted me for what he later admitted to be faulty reasoning but never took off his vote in spite of it. That's a thing worth looking into. I think bucktooth is looked slightly Towny to me. Not sure where would I put joppo and Joe.

Here's hoping for a great Day 2.

ah, I see.
actually I was interested because korotan's voting behaviour in voting for trent, actually, in voting at all, differed from his own. He usually doesn't like to vote unless he's sure, and especially doesn't like to vote in a game where the elimination flavour is killing.

but I'm generally interested in korotan. he's an interesting guy.

reason I'm asking is because I started wondering if another reason korotan got taken out is because I put him in my 'town' list early on so the mafia thought he was one of the more town-cleared, but no-one else seems to think that so it looks like I'm just having an inflated sense of the sway of my own opinion. ah well.


but you wouldn't like to limit yourself with anything less vague right now?

maybe. The statement-then-amending-the-statement-with-a-statement-qualifying-the-first-statement reads more like town to me.

"Are we thinking both scum are in that list, or are one of them sitting on one of the outlier votes? Yes I am assuming 2 scum as that's the assumption I've been having all game."
- Bucktooth

He claims he addended to avoid rebuttles of 'how do you know there are only two scum?"

I feel a genuinely guilty person would have been more tempted to edit the original statement, rather then addend.

is what I reckon.


Tonight, I think these are town:

Pooka, for yesterday's derp
Bucktooth, for today's derp
Dedo, because he tried to dissuade me from reading him as town so I, poor predictable fool, have no choice but to town read him

I had someone else on this list but I just deleted them because I thought about something. oooooh!

more on that story later

You were expecting what? How on earth should I know if he's genuine?

reading this gave me like a euphoric... dang what's that word for the moment of utter clarity?

well I'm messing up the moment, but I got one of those that the scums are DEFINITELY gym and micro.


aaaaand it's gone. ah well. it was a great feeling for a moment


just seemed like you were taking him for genuine with this getting exasperated you were doing before:

I see what you mean now. No, this was directed to the fact that I was afraid this will become the topic of the day.

And people won't notice my "joppo's 'you fooled me again'" lead.

I think there is a good chance bucktooth's statement was genuine. But maybe it wasn't - maybe it was LAMIST.

Anyway,

Does anyone not find joppo's 'you fooled me again' odd? When he himself admitted that trent was centre, slightly on scum, side of the scale?

I'm reassured that you find it odd.

So that's something.

Uhmmm...