If you are Town, please don't do that. Ending a game by suicide is extremely bad play. If you are scum, however, please go ahead and vote yourself. It's a scum move anyhow to toy with self-voting.

The problem is: you're one of the more suspect persons around here. And your continued survival might mean that you are scum. And following you on nmillar will put them in the 'speed lynch danger' category too. However, nmillar is kind of in all my possible scum considerations. But so is Catte.

Why are you willing to risk trusting Catte with getting a read? That would assume that he is indeed Town and a PR and I doubt that. Yes, we might go the 'safe' route and no-lynch today. Not making a decision and hope to win by PR. But I think we have a player who got caught up in evasiveness and who refuses to clear up the confusion resulting from that. So I see no reason to trust that very player with winning the game for us by some alleged night-action.

If I'm right about him, he will just claim a scum-read tomorrow and get the final mis-lynch done that way. So yes, a no-lynch would buy us time. But I don't know whether that would actually help us save this game.

How about that: we try to hit scum. And if the activity of the past days is any measure, a no-lynch might happen on it's own if we cannot agree on who is most likely scum. That wouldn't be the worst, considering MYLO, but definitely worse than hitting scum. So that should still be our priority and not giving up the hunt for Today. (which an agreement to no-lynch would basically be)

@catte, phaolo, dedo, Vitek: I know voting is risky in the current situation. But tomorrow is deadline. So please make up your mind. Or are some of you waiting for two townies to vote for someone who isn't a scumbuddy so that you can pile on?

Still, I have no idea what I was in that game and I was even browsing it few months ago.

Yeah, it's something town GH shouldn't be weighing as possibility at all unless he knows it could be true.


Adalia's fundamentals is your friend.
While I roughly knew where it occured I had to look search for it as well so someoen had to do the work of fidning it either way.


I am aware you see me that way.
I personally would like to believe I am not like that but it is also quite possible I am overall behaving other way that I think I do and people indeed see me that way.

Oh, pray tell, which player was that? Blotunga who you wanted to hammer just to get lynch or trent you voted because we needed any lynch (according ot you)?
I am not denying I was on 2 town wagons but do you really think you are the one to call it out?


As was already mentioned, even in this game, the old saying goes, whoever brings up jester is scummy because he is trying to justify suspecting someone on behaviour they don't understand instead of scummy one.

I think I went over it several times and gogtrial mentioned it too. It's not about some playbooks at all.
It's about being consistent with your opinions.
It's not the same as adjusting your views. If you think John is cool guy but then you learn he is beating his wife, you change your opinion of him and that's totally fine. But if you are at party and you talk to people about how you like Nhoj and later, when you learn some of the people don't like him, you talk about how you can't stand Nhoj at all it would be no surprise they will consider you dishonest and wouldn't trust you. In mafia such turnaround would be for good reason considered scummy.
It's not about taking notes and having memory issues, it's not something one has to remember.
Gogtrial asked you about your turnaround on nolynch comapred to mislynch (voting trent and saying even town lynch is better than no at all and later stating you would prefer nolynch and that another wagon could be easily started) and you tried to downplay it as something related to not taking notes. But it is not.
Stance on things like nolynch doesn't need notes, same as your view of Nhoj shouldn't need ones. One should just have opinion about it without having to check what they said about it in past.

Nothing else you would like ot address? Or would you prefer to pretend it doesn't exist and for it to go away?

Sigh, here we go.

And in the case of D1 no-lynch it isn't even that much of an opinion. Past games have proven that D1 no-lynch is bad. Worse, actually, than D1 mis-lynch. Of course one can choose to have an opinion contrary to popular belief and past experience. But I do agree that the back and forth of GH on that topic looked strange.

But since you didn't reply to my generic question above, I'll ask you directly: Why aren't you voting? Tomorrow is the already extended deadline. And if you don't dare to vote at the moment, where would the vote be if you would dare to vote and what would have to happen to make you dare put your vote somewhere? A last minute panic? Is that what you, dedo, phaolo and Catte are waiting for?

I was just toying with the idea, mostly out of frustration at seemingly not being taken seriously much(my reads, divorced from the reasoning for them, I mean) this game, despite trying a bit harder. That plus (imo) lax or less than stellar town play (like town letting each "day's" vote wait until the last minute and us getting a mislynch on two "days"...yes, in part likely caused by me) has also frustrated me somewhat and made me lose a bit of enthusiasm for this game for a bit.

That aside: If we mislynch we probably will lose even if I don't self vote/hammer...so we need to all step it up, and soon, if we even want to think about winning this one.

I just felt that the extra "day" could be a valid option to pick from if we want to salvage this game.....if we went that route & Catte is town PR and has info to share on D4 then that would be an extra bonus.

And now maybe you can see why I in part have lost hope for winning this game and some of my enthusiasm?

Of course I want town to win and have some small hope left so I am trying to find options that might be worthwhile to try to do such while we have time.

Question(mainly musing/wondering): If we end in nolynch anyways, what does it matter if it's through deciding to nolynch or ending up that way through the votes not going anywhere?

But besides such nolynch through scum hunting I am also still willing to vote for someone on my list and hope we get lucky and find scum this time: Mainly Nmillar, but maybe also Catte(i'm leaning them a bit more towards town and less scum now, but who knows...maybe they are clever scum).

(Also would maybe vote Vitek, but am reluctant in case they are some third party)

The difference is giving up prematurely. If a no-lynch happens, it happens. If we decide right now not to lynch, we also remove any pressure from potential targets (you included) and we basically give up for Today. Hoping that some hypothetical PRs will fix the game for this.

The end result is maybe not that much different. But the intent and feeling is different.

Also, if you really are Town, don't give up your self-improvements. Sure, many of your reads are taken as 'meh, just GH nonsense'. But it takes some time to adjust preconceptions. We know from previous games that your theories don't make much sense sometimes. So it's easy to dismiss you subconciously. I'll try to take you more serious in the future - but honestly. That 'ah, that's just GH quirkiness' is also what protects you. Any other player would look way more suspect with the contradictions and strange things that you have written. If I discount the possibility that your strangeness is just you, as a player, as I know you, then I would have to conclude that you are scummy.

Basically my rating you as less scummy than Catte or nmillar is based on gut feeling. And that gut feeling was shaped by previous games together. It will change over the course of several games, when you keep improving. So don't worry. In some games time you will be judged as harshly as any of us! ;-)

Fwiw, I weigh all possibilities that come to mind to various degrees.

Would use it, but am set in my ways a bit....still, I again thank you for pointing out that post.

Blotunga, of course.

Also to be clear: I wanted to hammer both to help more capable town players have something to analyze.....as town have told me how important they feel a wagon to analyze is and how bad nolynch is many times in the past, and I wanted to both give them a chance to prove that to me by analyzing the wagons and also possibly hit scum if we could.

Of course I wanted other wagons to get to lynch, but they went nowhere.

I was also neatly on two wagons....it's more your flimsy reasoning for Blotunga's hammer that made me suspect you, and also (iirc) your posts to me and about the hammer afterwards on D2.

You likely know this by now, but if not: I don't usually follow many mafia games sayings and stances when playing. Heck, I barely have skimmed the mafia wiki and info since beginning playin these games.


It is if you have trouble remembering some of your own opinions....again: I HAVE POOR MEMORY

It is to the point I even forget some important IRL things sometimes, and have IRL notes as well for some such things.

(I even had a seizure a few years back that likely made it worse)
(of course, if I took more notes it'd likely not be as big a deal, so my laziness is partially at fault & I admit that)

I'd like for you to perhaps please not seemingly call my stated IRL into question so many times, if that's at all possible.
(To me even if you don't intend to come off as such it reads like asking a person in a wheelchair to stand up and saying you think they're faking it)

+++++++++++

(Someone bump plz)

Apologies for the late response. Ended up going to bed quite early after the long drive / escape from Wales. Anyway ...

1. This was during RVS, plus I already stated that the vote count I saw had Catte at 3, hence my unvote;

2. Everyone knows roughly when the next game day is going to start, so it makes sense that any number of people will appear very early in the day. Also, I'm in the same time zone as Catte, so it is likely that our online times will be quite similar;

3. We're at MYLO, so any information to avoid another mislynch is helpful. In fact, I want a claim from Catte. The other crumb I've found seems to implicate GH, but Catte has been very evasive;

4. As above, I found another crumb, which I think it's time to reveal today (I'll leave a few hours for opinions);

5. Seems to be missing from your list?

6. Pot, have you met kettle? You're accusing me of being scum, so of course I'm going to try and discredit you.

There's nothing in any of the above that I can see would make a strong case against anyone, even when combined, which leads me to believe you're either tunnelling and using a host of bizarre reasons to push my lynch (multiple times I've seen you ask people to join your wagon on me), or you are in fact scum.

EBWOP: All the above last post's quotes were by Vitek and all of it's reply bits are to them....messed up the quote tags.
(neeed sleeep badly o.0)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Tbh I think whomever is on the scum team is counting on such or something else town does to help them win.

And with how slow town has been to get wagons to claim range all game, and slow in general(with us rushing near the end each "day"), we're likely been helping them quite a bit already.

I somewhat get what ya mean. I mean, I might not see much point in one over the other(atm...am a bit tired....might think a bit different when wide awake), but I can somewhat get what you mean and respect your stance.


All I would like is for people to realize I don't "see" things in these games as they do, and sometimes don't say it the right way(I have trouble expressing some more complex and wordy thoughts with the right words sometimes, or i'm too tired or forgetful and mess what I want to say up a bit...or more than a bit....leading to some of the oddities in my posts, no doubt), and to take that into account and maybe give some of my stances and reads some consideration in such games in general.

And of course I continue to try to improve as best I can...so thanks for the encouragement on that.

Again, thanks for the encouragement....it is a nice sight to see. :)

It happens...just glad you got to it eventually. :)
(Also hope yer doing ok as of now, and that you had some fun on your trip at least)

To be honest/clear: normally this alone wouldn't have made me suspect you....it was all the things/reasons (plus a few more I likely forgot) when combined over time that did the trick, as it were, and made me suspect you(and continue to do so).

This also, by itself, wasn't that big a deal....just when combined with your being on vacation vs Catte's IRL, and the other reasons and such, it made it seem more suspect.

Good point, also such info would possibly be helpful to town at this point.

Well i'll be back up in 8-10 hours, so hopefully i'll be greeted with said post when I get up. :)

Derp...6 should be 5....my bad.

Good point.

Maybe i'm tunneling a bit, and if so it's likely somewhat due to how I focus on finding scum.

(Of course if you're scum then it's one bit of tunneling i'd be ok with)

++++

(Going to bed y'all...have a good one, and to town: GL finding scum and with the game while I rest a bit)

Considering how far along in the Day we are, the participation is really lackluster. @dedo and phaolo: my question to you both still stands.

What's up on your end? nmillar, who asked for extension, is more active than the two of you. Is RL intervening? Have you given up on this game (if you are Town)? Or are you happy with the state we are in because you are scum after all?

Eh, I'll try.
Probably the most suspects for me at the moment seem to be nmillar, catte, Vitek

---

Btw is anyone able to understand something from the past & current votes?
(I hope there's no need to explain the brackets..)


D1
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_mafia_69_he_he_the_uniwizard_tournament_second_edition/post394

[trent] 7 - [gogtrial], [blotunga], Vitek, [Joe], dedo, GH, Lift
[Joe] 1 - Micro
[gogtrial] 1 - (phaolo)
[blotunga] 1 - [trent]
Not voting - catte, nmillar


D2
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_mafia_69_he_he_the_uniwizard_tournament_second_edition/post795

[blotunga] 6 - Lift, [gogtrial], catte, dedo, nmillar, Vitek
nmillar 4 - GH, Micro, (phaolo), [blotunga]


D3 as of now

https://www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_mafia_69_he_he_the_uniwizard_tournament_second_edition/post976

GH 2 - Micro, nmillar
nmillar 1 - GH
catte 1 - Lift

Not voting - catte, (phaolo), dedo, Vitek

After just a busy morning? Come on..

Sorry. I got a bit tense. I'll have very little internet tomorrow, so today is the last day where I can participate in discussions - and I felt a bit alone. ;-)

As for your listing of previous trains: Vitek, dedo and I were present on both mislynch-trains. GH would have been present on both trains too, if Vitek hadn't been quicker.
catte and nmillar didn't participate in the D1 lynch - a Day, where no-lynch is decidedly worse than a mislynch. However, on D2 they were both on the mis-lynch wagon.

Today we have the stalled GH wagon, which probably means that either he or one of those voting for him is scum.

Was that what you were asking about?

Well yeah, I was asking about some opinions.

Btw I just realized a thing with the current votes..
the probable 3 scum could easily trigger a mis-lynch with just 2 wrong townie votes and end the game.

If this hasn't happened yet, it could mean:
1- they didn't think of it and I just doomed us (improbable, but in that case.. sorry)
2- they can't reach 5 on a townie, sooo..

if GH is town, there must be at least 1 scum voting him and at least 1 among the others (I'll exclude myself obviously).
I don't expect them to be so bold to do a double vote, so I imagine there's only 1 there and 2 remaining.
Since I already suspect nmillar.. that's one scum.

if GH is scum, instead, those voting will probably be town, so again, other 2 scum remain among the others.

After this, I feel there are (a bit) more chances that Micro is town.