Yeah, I guess it doesn't make much sense. I can't see why else they wouldn't kill me, unless they either completely missed Micro's post or they saw it and thought I'd be protected. Either way it's a waste of time because there's no info there.

Oh by the way:
Ahem.

EBWOP:

This is supposed to read:

"Bussing shouldn't be an acceptable option for them at this point as it takes them down a notch and gives us another night to work with and possibly extrapolate data from the interactions of the bussed player."

@GH: yes, it would have been prudent for Town!Vitek to wait and see what you would do, if he suspected you. Just as it would have been prudent for Scum!Vitek to wait for Town!you to hammer to make you look bad. So either way Vitek's hammering was imprudent. Which makes it NAI.
You constructing a case out of it looks quite arbitrary. Especially since your theory that Scum!Vitek wanted to protect you would make you Scum as well. Was that a slip? Or just nonsense?

That must mean that you aren't in any faction with anyone. So you must be third-party! ;-)


'Read between the lines'? Really? So now you admit that there was something. In any case nmillar is right. Your 'defense' is very nonsensical. You should know whether you have a broken keyboard or not. Your evasiveness on this looks really shady. So yes, I want to pull this thread, because at the end of the thread might be the conclusion whether you are scum or not. You are one of the main suspects after all.
If you mean to imply that you are a Town!PR by your 'do you want to pull this thread' comment, well, we are probably at MYLO and by your own argument Scum have you pegged as PR anyhow. IF you are Town!PR. But all your evasiveness with soft hints that you might be something important and that there might be something about your capitalizations or might not, make it rather look as if you are scum trying to evade uncomfortable questions.

Normally I would vote for you now. But that would put you at L-3 and just in case that you are Town after all, that might be dangerous. We have probably 3 scum who are waiting to pile on if we give them a chance to quick-lynch someone. And I won't be available for the next few hours to remove my vote again should someone attempt a quick-pile. So for now I don't vote you yet. But I guess the question who of you and GH looks more scummy has been answered.

GH is partially nonsensical. But that's very much himself. Your arguments are partially nonsensical. But for you I suspect that there is a rather scummy reason for it because usually your arguments are more reasonable.

{2144 words coming in, per MS word :O }
EBWOP: My post should have tagged GH's 883, not the post that GH quoted (lift's 863) "trying to improve myself"

Sorry for your tiredness.
I only read this post so far but want to comment that I was voting Nmillar EOD2 as per Idk that it's sudden, per se, so much as expressing a willingness-though less so than D2--to going back to my old ideas.

Ah? I hadn't considered that.... I guess that makes sense that they would let town!you live to get further info from you? I always thought scum would want to off the PRs instantly, but what do I know...

OTOH, Role Cop is almost non-existent for town, correct? if you are scum, the fact that you survived after broadcasting, if broadcasting roles, while one of the two possible objects-of-your-attention was offed helps us know that it was, indeed a signal...
Hypothetically, you signaled "G is S". If you are eliminated, as we have two G's, scum would be scared and attempts to remove both G's would occur, in hopes that they got the one you meant. Further suppose that you announced your target the night before--they would know who you referred to. If you had investigated without announcing who you were investingating, breadcrumbed your results but then had been lunched before Night and a chance to exposit on them, I would expect 1 G and then the other to be the NK on successive nights.
Again hypothetically, if you were scum, there would be no resaon for scum to eliminate their own via NK--it would be among the heights of folly to do so.

The only way in which is makes sense for scum to let you live is a) you are scum or b) they think that you investigating and reporting does more good to them then the potential harm in you investigating and finding out that they were scum.

+++++++

I told you I listen to you! :-D I see. yes, explained like that, I understand your concern. I'm not sure that it alone is worth voting someone, but it definitely makes oen think. I'll have to re-examine one of those i'd previously locked-town (the other being dedo)
(Trent iirc last game I played in talked about the benefit of moving people to a town core early on and then not moving them unless there was massive evidence against as this would reduce some of the confusion, and I tried that strategy this game).

Thanks.
yes, worth thinking about, but your aggressive pushiness early D3 rubbed my hackles the wrong way.

Consider this--have you survived because you are scum, as I think enough to vote you?

bump please (no vote)

{1225 words left}
Ah, I see. In the past you have had some reads that were not generally agreed upon, but your reads also tend to be far better than some others--that is one of the reasons I find this odd. You usually don't fixate on unusual things like time of posting unless you are scum trying desperately to find anything to stick.

[ aside/offtopic-slightly ]Don't lose heart! you make games funner to be in than they would be without you. Don't stop believing that we can win this! (Unless of course that was LAMIST on your part to say "idk if we can win this because MYLO" [paraphrased; please correct if I read your tone wrongly].

I see. Thanks for the info.
2.yes, that could have been useful. Unfortunately, as no scum worth his or her salt would want to draw attention to themselves via hammer, this is all WIFOM.
If one is utterly convinced person X is scum, is it worth hammering to shut them up before they can sow more confusion?

:O The potato chip & bologna one sounds yummy!

+++++++++

Please explain what you mean? Read what between the lines? Are you afraid that something will pop out if you pull too far? Are you concerned that your hypothetical scumbuddy is bussing too hard?

(Apologies, but I still don't get the difference between bussing and distancing very well; they seem in truth to be synonyms.)

+++++++

Again, as I said previously, I tend to get easily led by my nose and believe whoever last talks, especially if they have convincing arguments. Gogtrial sounded so towny that I feared that he was scum, similar to my fear of Lift in Joppo's 1st scum game.
We did? I don't recall, but then I stop paying close attention when removed from in-game.

if your statement that that's the only thing you've united on is true, then yes. Time-of-postis shaky reasoning at best.

HOWEVER, neither of you voted EOD1

and both of you voted for Blotunga EOD2

it is not inconceivable that the two teammates would try and stay far apart from each other in everything, but would vote similarly, in order to advance the scum-cause.
Day 1, Trent was town. Hypothetically, scum could have avoided voting him because town did a fine job of that.
D2, you both voted blotunga, perhaps on less than what you abstained from voting trent over.
Post 51, nmillar is voting catte, catte votes joe (distance for nmillar?) Both of you have unvoted by 115 (you in 83, nmillar in 86)

D2, NMillar has voted by 495, you aren't.
663, you vote Blot in Position 3, and after explaining #88 as a joke about expending a ton more energy on later days (scum taunt?)NM votes in 699.
(Side note: I just noticed that every wagon from EOD1 is eliminated :O)

IOW, it is inconclusive, but it looks like it might be two scum in cahoots. The only way GH fits in is if he is also scum and you 3 lack day chat so you are telling him (quite loudly) "dude, quit the bussing because it looks bad!" I however, don't claim that this is what you are doing toDay. I don't pretend to know what you are doing, either.

++++++++

1. Thanks--I shall.

2. You didn't offend me. I tend to think of myself as having a very tough skin and shrugging off comments that might offend others. Also, now that you bring up my past play... I do get your point :P
I do remember RW's last game where he saw my innocent-to-me question as proof-positive that i had PR (which i did) and was role-fishing (which I wasn't).
3. reread, please I left out a word, it seems. it should have read Does this help?

++++++++++

WOW! I should perhaps go back and read the early games, as there seem to have been now-rare combinations of roles back in the day! Also, that flavour was vastly amusing! Thanks for bringing it to my attention!

That's quite a big difference...thank you for fixing it before I asked you about it...

Gonna post this (if it works) and then go to bed...

EEEEE. Thank you for the warning!!

Bussing is inherently distancing. Distancing doesn't necessarily mean bussing. If we are scum together I can have an argument with or about you and even vote you but I'll try to not go too far so I can't go back without becoming suspicious in the process. On the other hand, if I've decided I need to buss you I'll go all the way - I may even end up being the driver of the wagon that drives you in the ground. That might not necessarily happen if people buy it early enough but I would be prepared to go all the way if needed. For example in the game where SPF, Pooka and I were scum together I bussed Pooka hard in the end and had branching plans on how to win the game is going to be won depending on the outcome. Is it clearer now?

By the way, @Micro, I don't think you ever responded to my question on what you think is a good course of action (or if you did I forgot about it or missed it for which I apologize and could use a reminder in the form of a post link).

I also forgot to respond to ZFR's inquiry: Moving the day end is very welcome.

Btw, gogtrial said that these games on Gog usually have a cop.. where the f**k is ours?

Either we don't have one or they didn't find scum yet and their not-scum reads aren't in any danger of being lynched yet.

Usually Cops stay hidden until they have a positive scum hit. At MYLO a cop would also have to speak up if someone they cleared as Town is in danger of being mislynched. But as long as revealing themselves isn't necessary for Town, it's better that any Cop we may have stays hidden.

However, for Catte that isn't an argument to stay hidden. He was already called out on his capitalization. If that was an attempt to breadcrumb reads as a Town!PR, that attempt already drew attention. So there is no reason not to state clearly what he meant, if he is Town. However, if that was an agreed code for scum communication because scum don't have a Day-chat, then he might have a harder time explaining what those capitalizations meant. And that seems to be the case.

But I will withhold my vote until Catte re-appears and explains what he meant by his 'Read between the lines' comment.

There are literally hundreds of computers in this college, some are broken. I'll use several different ones in a day. It would be better for us all if we left it at that for today, don't forget the Stanley Hotel.

Well now's the time to ask yourself why the questions might make me uncomfortable. If I had something helpful to share, I would share it right now. I don't, so I can't. If you really want to pressure me to spill the undercooked beans I will gladly spill them all over your face.

Which arguments of mine are you finding unreasonable? I've done a lot of speculation, but wild speculation is kind of my thing.

You're kind of reinforcing my point there if I've understood you correctly. I said you were going along with him in contrast to voting for him the previous day. That's precisely the turnabout that I'm raising my eyebrow at.

See my reply to Vitek.

But if your theory is that I'm scum communicating with teammates, why on earth would I pick this method? A more sensible choice would be to use pre-arranged codewords/phrases, as someone in here has already mentioned. Much more likely is that it either doesn't mean anything at all, or the reason I hypothetically wouldn't want to discuss it is because it isn't helpful yet.

Or c) they assumed I'd be protected after you pointed the "breadcrumb" out to everyone or d) they weren't paying attention.

If, hypothetically I really did breadcrumb something and I didn't want to talk about it yet, what might be the reason for that? Frankly it was anti-town of you to bring it up yesterday (whether deliberately or accidentally) and because of that I was sure I wouldn't survive the night. The only thing that makes it look like it might simply have been a bad town move on your part is that I can't think of a reason scum noticing it would want to bring it to everyone else's attention.

By the way, the difference between bussing and distancing is the intended outcome. Distancing is simply not wanting to look too close to one another but both stay in the game, bussing is when you actually take one of your buddies down.

Given the experience nmillar and I have between us, I'd like to think if we were scum together we wouldn't be so obvious as to do anything of that sort. It's pretty standard to avoid voting the same in early days, because there's no reason to. Frankly, I'm a bit disappointed in the low opinion you have of the imaginary nmillar-catte scum buddies!

Good question.

Already called out and already completely denied, yes. "Nothing to see here folks, move along move along."
You guys really can't take a hint.

Your omniscience seems to be on the fritz. There's nothing there that can help right now.

A pre-agreed code can be a hell of a lot more subtle, don't you think?

Okay, so my packing is done ready for the drive home tomorrow, so I've had a bit of down time to catch up on today's posts, and there are a few things witch I had noticed previously, but probably didn't give them the attention they deserved.

As such:

Unvote Catte

Vote GymHenson

On mobile, so without wall of text quotes:

@Catte: yes, I can take a hint. But in your case I won't. That ship has sailed. Because scum can too easily try to hide behind such hints when they are caught at something that seems off.

If you are town, you would understand how this looks to other townies. "I don't know if my capitalization means something" (which is an absurd statement) but also "it doesn't mean anything" but also "don't keep prodding. It totally means something that would be bad to reveal" ... these statements and insinuations combined are self contradictory. And that's what I call unreasonable behaviour.

So no, I'm not going to let that slide. If you are a Town PR, you're on scum's kill list now anyhow. So you might as well share everything you know. But if you aren't town, I want to see you wiggle out if this.

So if we decide to do a mass claim (which might be a good thing at MYLO) I want you to start!

P.S. and since nmillar unvoted you, I can put my vote where my main suspicion is right now:

Requestus Explanatio Catte

Vote Count

GH 2 - Micro, nmillar
Vitek 1 - GH
catte 1 - Lift

Not voting - catte, phaolo, dedo, Vitek

8 players. Takes 5 to lynch.

GH is closest at L-3