I have a question for you.

You explained why you thought SPF had to be removed, but why did you feel you need to hammer? Were you fully aware of the vote count when you hammered?

I knew it was close and some others had voted, but I hadn't counted. I thought it probably was the hammer as soon as I'd done it, as I was doing it I was just thinking about the claim really

Again, that's NOT what I wrote. You are trying to put words in my mouth that I didn't use.

My point was: Yogs wrote
ZFR OK - No explanation as to why
Trent OK - No explanation as to why
The point was more about Yogs than about you two. Yes, I could have continued the list with 'Carradice OK, no explanation' for completeness sake. However, I admit, I was focusing on you two and that just seemed to fit. And you, with your mis-representations, aren't doing anything to look less scummy!

But I do admit that Carradice's behaviour looked scummy on D1 and if it is necessary to avoid a tie/no-lynch, I will switch my vote to him. I just feel uneasy to vote for a claimed Cop with no CC, without further investigation and thought. Still, Carradice takes a third place after Yogs and you. Trent, I don't know. He is hard to read. I feel that he might be scum, but that is partially contingent on his connection to you and yogs. So I would like to see one of you two flip first. Or, if I you succeed in making Carradice today's only sensible lynch choice, Carradice's flip will also shed light on some other alignments. If he flips scum, that kind of exonerates you, since you probably wouldn't go to such efforts to bus a buddy who has kind of successfully false-claimed. Probably.

Here is what you wrote:
"I was looking for connections between yogs, you and maybe trent." Which I took to imply you did see inter-player connections in those statements of yogs.

If it's just examples of yogs offering no explanation for reads, then fair enough.
But if it's examples of interplayer connections then you should be consistent and include Carradice in them (plus Joe if I'm not mistaken).

Look, at this point we're just riling up each other going back and forth, so this is definitely counterproductive. I'm going to take a step back.

It wasn't my intention to misinterpret you. The meaning of the written word get lost sometimes and I accept that I might have misunderstood what you were trying to say. But I didn't do it on purpose.

But neither was I ignoring your other two points against yogs. It's just that the first point was the one where I could find a reason for town!yogs acting the way he did, so I thought I'd bring it up to see your thoughts on it. The other two weren't mentioned because I agree with them - not because I chose to ignore them.
I said it before, I find yogs scummy - just not as much as Carradice. If it wasn't for the scene flip situation I'd probably be voting yogs.

Get better soon, whatever the bug is. Also, until you get the results, you know, be careful. Stay strong.

What a refreshing sight, finding Micro's posts in the thread.

There is so much to comment on, that I give up trying to. I will proceed on just two issues:

1. PMs and roles (I knew this was coming)

@Lift: When I wrote that I was blocked, I was not quoting the PM in any way. I was making a rushed assumption that of course might be wrong. I hinted at it... I got no information on the reason why the cop check failed.

I do not know the names of all the roles, and being this a closed setup with a very crazy background, even common concepts names might be subverted, like in Joe's game.

But to sum it up, it might be one of three general cases. All can mean protection against cop checks or against everything. Unlimited or in shots:

a) Someone targeted me. Scum or misguided town.

b) Someone targeted my target. It does not mean that my target is scum; they can have made a bet on me targeting the one I had voted for.

c) The target protected himself. It might be inborn protection or in shots. It does not mean that the target is scum. He might have been protecting himself against a NK.


2. Reads (laconic version)

@Vitek: It is hard to miss #806. Or my reads form D-1. Or the updates about Lift. Also, the quote you provide is fake. Out of line with my first D-2 post, too.

Higher within a tier means more townie.



Tier 1. Village paradise.

Micro: Goes about his thing. Mentiones what nobody else cares to mention. Good. Trails in the Sky award to a good townie villager.

Lift: More active on D-2. Asks uncomfortable questions instead of going with the flow. Stardew Valley award to the next best townie villager.



Tier 3. Home of the burrowers.

Joe: Selective, out of context, handling of GOG mafia memory and records. He neglects the fact that, on the one time that I was mafia, I refused to claim any role. For his forgetfulness, he gets the Oblivion award.

Trent: Since the Not-Reading-gate, tunneled fast and steadily. Not out of character, but still. For his efforts exploring the underground he gets the Spelunky award.

ZFR: Starting tunnelling because of a disagreement on rules. Then grabbed on a series of excuses to keep maintaining his vote. He never voted for anyone else. "Now it is the rules, now that he did not read the pm, now that he forgot I was actually voting for him (of all people); now that he says he is a cop; now that another guy says he is a doc; now that scum is underpowered and we overpowered...". Lucky Yogsloth never got tunneled over a disagreement about rules, despite we hold the same opinion. Lucky Lift got himself an answer, while I repeated and rephrased mine.... Today I just find myself scrolling past ZFR's posts. They add nothing of value. Nihil. Ommisions and mistakes leave his posts senseless. Nor repetition or near-rudeness add anything to this player's fun (if he changes his tune, someone let me know, plz).

(The line above is not a vote)

Hint: Use the line in bold as a further excuse for voting for Carradice. You are welcome.

For his crazy tunnelling, ZFR gets the highly prized SteamWorld Dig award.



Tier 2. A sea of meh.

Vitek: Not too much time available on D-1, I might presume. Going with the flow against the guy who did something weird, then checks on others, then gets back... I do like his exchanges with Micro, however.

Dedoporno: started picking on the guy who had arrived late. Made a few unfounded accusations. However, he has considered a variety of options.

Flocke: Very sparse posts. Shows some effort, but there is just too few of them.

Yogsloth: Started promising. At first it seemed that he was going to deliver... Later, it seems like he was just going with the flow against an easy target (Scene), as he turns against another easy target.


All these guys receive the Pixelated Roguelike award.



Read again my first post of D-2...

Ah, OK. Then it really was a misunderstanding of omission. Just like my omission of Carradice's rating by Yogs.

Still, I'll leave my vote on Yogs. I'd prefer to see his flip over Carradice's today, since I think that yogs is definitely the scummier of the two.


Well, since you said that you targeted me, we can remove option c) from the list. I don't have any power that protects me from being investigated.

hmmmmm...

b - what roles disguise their target's alignment to a cop or make their target untargetable?
c - other than copproof (who is surely scum) or commuter (which was gogtrial who is dead) what protection is there against investigation? It's unusual for protection from night kill to also influence a cop read...

^

this all feels bad.

it could be covering... claiming he was blocked then realising he shouldn't know he was blocked... but why not just say his message said he was blocked?


troubling... I've been wondering what carradice has been getting at when he keeps saying he refuses to discuss PMs and roles.

If it was this, then what was the problem? He assumed he was blocked, it's safe to assume he was blocked by scum. If he was not blocked by scum, then scum already know that. So not discussing PM and role is allowing scum to maintain their advantage.

Have I misunderstood?

From the game rules. The way I understand the concept, this applies to all direct mechanics-related PMs from the mod. So, no quoting the PM verbatim. But obviously, everyone understood that the cop check had failed because of someone interfering with it. About the exact description of the role and the mechanic doing so, your guess is as good as mine.

Who is your top suspect and why? What are your thoughts on lynching Carradice today?




You seem awfully quite today, I hope all is well. I’ll ask you the same two questions I asked Joe.

@Vitek: On a side note. I do like Micro's thaumaturgy. He is both a speaker to the imprisoned, and a speaker for the imprisoned.

That someone got eliminated does not make their comments automatically invalid or deserving to be neglected. If Micro feels to bringing back questions that were left unanswered, or observations that people missed, why not? The one time that I saw someone complaining from considering the comments of an eliminated player, it was scum who was complaining. Just saying!

I've not advanced much from my process of elimination. I'm torn on carradice. I feel he is town. I hadn't considered why until just now but I just thought - if he's scum where are his allies? Could be trent and microfish I suppose. Still I kinda have the impression carradice is drawing all the attention and that is being permitted to happen.

When I look at his general tone I think town. But his claim and this recent post of his are very troubling.

Still I'd rather catch a wolf and see how carradice looks after that, than go for carradice now. It's not as simple as that I know, but, that's my preference.

So I'd rather lynch someone from:

trent
dedo
lift
vitek
micro
yogsloth

I think trent or dedo has the best chance of being scum out of these.

I said I'd reread dedo and vitek didn't I? I haven't done. Reading is for neeeeerds

If Carradice is Cop, b and c are out of the question. Scum isn't going to leave him alive without making sure he's getting blocked.

Why bring up these scenarios?

This comes from someone who introduced very twisted versions of mafia roles that made veteran players trip and fall. In an open setup, even. People kept thinking that they were getting the well-trodden concepts they were familiar with.

Not being a veteran, not pretending to know all the names of well-known, used-to-death, classic mafia roles, and above all, not knowing what scum have in their bag of tricks for this game, I will leave all the assumptions for others to make.

For me the obvious answer is that scum are searching for whatever is left at the disposal of town. Which leads itself to a guess...

Why bother answering a question which you already answered yourself? "Lucky" Lift asked normally so I answered him.