Yes. I was initially giving ZFR town cred because I didn't think scum would make a big deal about what they see as a big scum-advantage when nobody else had seen/spoken about it.
Reason: because it would be quite risky and make sure everyone (like me) who didn't analyze things knew about it. As a result, that post hurt scum. Because ZFR made that initial post, I was giving him town credit for doing something i didn't think a reasonable scum would do.
His stating that he'd do it as scum--when noone else had mentioned it--makes me erase his "town-point" that he got as a result of my brain.

Looking back, I don't know if in and of itself it makes him look scummier, per se, but it kind of does in that it neutralizes something that I credited as making him look townier. he was already looking somewhat fishy in my book because of his dogged pursuit of Carradice's initial play which I had read as "not the best play but NAI at worst".

in fact, because you and he say it is something he'd do as scum, i have to wonder if he is scum doing it to appear town, and if you should be wondering this as well.

That is possible, but that's not the point I was making. A good scum player resembles how they would be as Town, so ZFR saying he would do that as scum by itself is NAI.

EDIT: Just now, I noticed Carradice's post in the Mafia Admin thread. After two hours.
Carradice forgiven.

For posterity:
----------------------------------
I wasn't able to see it yesterday, but the librarian in me saw a disturbance I didn't quite like.
My dear Carradice.

NO EDITING

That was all. Thank you so much for your attention. Please carry on.

also

NO EDITING VOTE COUNT!

Carradice (3) - ZFR, trentonlf, Vitek
JoeSapphire (3) - gogtrial, Microfish, dedoporno
dedoporno (1) - Carradice
Lifthrasil (1) - JoeSapphire
trentonlf (1) - supplementscene
SirMrFailRomp (1) - Flockeschnee

Not voted: FlockeSchnee, yogsloth, Vitek, gogtrial, Microfish, ZFR, supplementscene
Not voting: yogsloth, SirMrFailRomp, Lifthrasil

Carradice and JoeSapphire are closest to imprisonment, at L-4.
There are 13 players. It takes 7 votes to imprison.
Court Phase 1 ends on Saturday, 20th June, 7PM London Time + any overtimes. Only two days left.
Check to make sure your vote is against the correct person.

Also @Joe if you're gonna vote anywhere other than the beginning of a new line, capitalize your vote, please.

I see what you are saying, and generally agree, but am not sure that I agree with it in all instances. This is one where I would tend to think a smart scum player who noticed such an advantage would let it slide and hope that no-one noticed it. At least, that is what i would do, I think.

HOWEVER, At any rate, in this instance, since his statement--by his and your own words--is NAI, this further erases his town-point(s?) that he got for making the post in question.

What are your views on ZFR?
Joe? I know that a foul mood does not a scum player make, but is Joe just out of sorts, or is he also different than normal?

is this usual for yogs to do when playing with vitek? I have never had the honour of playing with vitek before (with or without yogs in the same game), so I do not know.
Have your thoughts crystallized more regarding Joe?

I second this notion. We're all here for the fun of the game.
I think it would be much healthier to address and find a resolution for both of your problems post-game.

Sorry again for the interruption.

TL;DR


First, please, keep this civil, don't take things personally and try to leave past-games stuff behind.

You should always take subbed player behaviour into consideration but it is also quite hard to do the longer it is since they repalced as the replacement can always just say "dunno why they acted so, you can't blame me". And you really can't. In good and bad way for them. You can lynch them for it and they have hard time to explain it because they are not that person but in the same way it can be used to brush accusations off. Depends how strong the previous accusations were. It is hard for replacement to defend against anything substantial and already established but on the other hand it makes smaller issues with previous person less significant as it can be attributed to their style of play.
So what am I saying? You should take GR's behaviour into account but you can't expect much explanation from yog.


Thanks for the explanation.
It is quite reasonable and I find it as valid reason for acting differently.

I am always of the opinion people should claim when they are about to be lynched, not necessarily when they get brought to some threshold so I take it the same way here and if someone is about to get lynched (because of having most votes close to deadline with people voting them for lynch and not having much intention to switch), they should claim even if they are not at L-1.


I don't agree here and not just with Carradice but overall.
I don't consider someone throwing bad OMGUS-y votes around to be more likely town. I take it either as indication of being scummy or new and I don't think Carradice is that new, right?


I don't consider Carradice's play to be anti-game because I find it to be excuse. If it was honest I wouldn't like it as player rregardless of alignment but I see is as way to get past for his posts so if he made any slip it could be waved off as nothing because see, he didn't know his alignment so he couldn't have bad intentions.

Only thing giving me pause is ZFR gunning for him as well, and I really dislike the "let's lynch him to remove distraction" reasoning.
That too is great excuse to lynch someone and get a pass by saying "we had to lynch him, it was necessary, you can't blame me".
i als ofind him a bit too focused on mechanics and while he is quite active most posts contain little actual scum-hunting. Plus I don't like his profile picture.
So I am torn bbut willing to continue to see how it develops.

As for others, quick overview off the top of my head before I have to get back to work. They are very weak.

JackTopaz: Feels like his usual self. Have hard tiem reading him as always so mostly neutral but as he has done nothing that i would find directly scummy he is leaning town. I don't like how he spent time a bit too much time on th eavatar thing so that would be a handful of scum points but on the other hand it quite fits with hi usual behaviour. So still mostly neutral I think.

SirSomething: His usual "I don't have much to say"-self. Doesn't tell us much but if memory serves right he is a bit more active when he is scum.

Trentie: That's how I know him and nothing wrong there so far. Leaning town.

yog/GR: Wasn't fan of what GR was posting and there is not much to judge yog on so based on GR leaning scum.

SantaScene: Seems to be trying in his own way and I get fairly good vibes from him. I don't think I have experienced him as scum so it makes it harder to judge but slightly town so far.

gogtrial: Strong play so far but bit too much obsessed with Joe... is what I thought but upon quick readthrough of his posts I am not sure where I got the idea. So just strong play I would say. Town I would say.

Lift: I find him scummy most of the time and he is no different here so... Neutral I'd say?

Dedo: Called me stupid so scum. Find his reasoning for voting Joe weak and I find it strange how suddenly Joe gained votes. Somewhat strongly backed out of Carradice situation.
Although I like porno, pirates and Batman he gets leaning mafia verdict right now.

I bet I forgot someone.

Now I've got be TL;DR myslef for a too long post.
Shameful.


I felt fairly good about Flocke's posts despite the low amount they seemed genuine but on the other hand mention of Jester is like scum-claim so 100 % mafia.

Vítek is silly duck.

*I've go to TL;DR myself*.

Oh, Micro is missing.
Scum for being somewhat invisble and slipping under my radar I guess.

Recent posts full of "I like this, I like that", weird exchange with trent and vote for Joe that looks like RVS?

I haven't played with him for quite a while so I don't know what is usual for him anymore. When we played the most together a couple of years ago he was a lot more active, though. Then again he did prefer to sign up as a sub rather than actual player so maybe external factors are what keeps him back. No idea, but waiting for something from him.

I'm not extremely happy with my vote and I'd like to find something better but I don't have anything else better at the moment so I'm going with what I didn't like the most. I'm also considering SPF as he isn't very active but the thing that gave me pause there is the fact that he appeared to not pursue Carradice solely based on the PM situation and that looks Towny to me.


I did? When?

I believe I made it clear why I don't think it makes sense to pursue them based on pre-280. The only scenario where that isn't the case is if they lied about the whole thing but that doesn't make sense to me for scum to do under the circumstances in which it happened.

Of course it is but the point still stands. If we don't deal with it D1, it could become a distraction at a more critical time when we can't afford to mislynch. If you recall Poppy's game the very exact thing happened.

But that's not my only reason. I still think we have a better than average chance of hitting scum here.

Guilty as charged. I like analysing game mechanics.

At the moment it looks like the choices are Joe or Caradice. Lift has voted for SPF, which I would of done if SPF didn't say he was feeling unwell. Perhaps an opportunistic vote while staying off a town or mafia wagon? But then again I voted in the same way for Caradice and I've been tempted to vote for SPF so I understand the reasoning.

I haven't voted for Dedo. I voted for you, Carradice and Trent

My point is I read SPF as scummy even when he isn't because of his lack of contribution even when he's town. I'd probably voting for him if he wasn't unwell, which mitigates it