Yeah, we having time is doing wonders right now. NoLynch is just stupid at this point. If Micro is Town the scum will just block him again and kill one of the players who no one is OK lynching. Great idea for sure.

They sleep on an open window as it's pretty hot outside, a random wasp wanders in the house (not often nor usual thing to happen), gets in the bed, the sleeping one rolls in their sleep and puts pressure on the thing and it stings. That happens twice. That's how one gets stung while sleeping :)

Oh wow! I am so sorry to hear that! I am very glad to hear he’s ok. I am allergic to wasps, I don’t like them at all. Family for sure more important than mafia game.


@Micro, why do you want to no lynch???

Sorry for being late.

Well, I was trying to "channel Pooka", because at some point in the game, he usually points out the final vote count and stuff, because Mafia Partners (supposedly) don't sit on the same wagon, at least not until later in the game when there are only few players left. Or does this not apply here, because we don't need a hammer for lynching?
A better example is probably:
Micro and dedo were both on yogs wagon on EOD2 and 3. So that should make it really unlikely that they are Mafia Partners.
Well, that's not helping with our current situation. And I lack the proper skillset for this kind of thing.

My thought process was more like this:
Mafia knows who isn't on their team and therefore most likely town. And since there are at least two of them they would most likely alternate between joining the wagon of the most likely lynch candidate, because the same player ending up on many successful town lynch wagons would look really suspicious.
But I see my error in thought now. I had the misconception there might actually be fixed never-evers for Mafia, but it's probably more of a (current) personal preference thing for each player separately.


I brought it up, because it struck me as odd that you specifically mentioned that in your reread summery of my post. And your argument doesn't make sense to me. It's their win condition and removes a distraction. I understand the reasoning behind Vitek's post 410 "It could be taken as way to lynch someone without calling them mafia" better, but now that I think about it, jesters probably aren't that common (because nobody likes them) so bussing would be more appropriate and less attention-drawing. But that's beside the point in this game.
About post 1290: Why do you only ask about my thoughts on Vitek's claim?

My reads have been all off so far, except for my gut feeling on Carradice based on previous games that I didn't act on. That's not exactly promising. But there's no way around it, so:

Micro seems to be like he usually is, at least the games I read. Wording things in a way some find suspicious or that are/seem contradictory (even more so under pressure?), which quite often seems to be the reason he gets lynched. So far he was only Town (if the banter from the beginning of the game is correct). But that might also be true for MafiaMicro.
He breadcrumbed his role early Day1. And breadcrumbed the investigation results. Seems a lot of work, that might not pay off. If he's known to breadcrumb every game (I don't know about that), he might have had to though. Personally, I think claiming Vanilla would have been the better option then though. Wouldn't have worked out in this game, but the overall chances would still have been better then Tracker?

Vitek: Unknown player. So nothing about former games to see potential similarities or differences.
I take it he didn't breadcrumb or he would have already told us.
(I will continue on this later today. I haven't reread him yet and want to take a look at interactions.)

(I'm writing it all out here, because I need to see it.)
And mechanics (PRs making sense? and Actions making sense?)
Carradice Mafia Role Cop
gogtrial Town 1xCommuter
SPF Town Compulsive Visitor
supplementscene Town Doctor

Micro claimed Tracker, claimed investigations: N1 dedo (nothing), N2 Lift (nothing), N3 trent (got blocked)
Vitek claimed 4xJOAT, claimed investigations: N1 blocked yogs (nothing), D2 watched dedo (nothing), D3 tracked Micro (successfully to trent)

One of them seems to be lying. (Yeah, I know, nothing new.)

Also sorry for leaving it here, but it's 03:00 in the night and I'm dead tired. Good news is it's almost weekend and I will have more time once work is done today.

i asked because i was told (by zfr iirc) that NL was only useful at MYLO when we don't know enough to say for sure. if we mislunch the result is the same.

So, I have reread Lift, and while some things stuck out that i didn't like at the time and I still (remembering my mindset then) don't care for overly, I feel he is either town or the Grandmaster of Scum.

(abriudged notes before i gave up on them) +++++

i was asking the questions re Joe to ask if anyone else had seen anything. I intend to go reread Joe now.
ugh! I'm glad they are doing all right. Family always comes before internet games!

well, i'd be happy with either; i had seen bits and pieces of Flocke hither and yon which i town read at the time, but not enough to mean i wouldn't vote Flocke.

if i had to believe my role or Vitek's claim, i'd go with what my PM says ;-)

1166, 1171 Joe preferred a Vitek Lunch over a Micro Sandwich and says to look into the Vitek/Carradice interactions. He thinks Flocke is towny (1154). If I was scum, I wouldn't go for one of the people who just called me towny when another attractive target existed in Dedo.
1087 says vitek is scummy (and me, but that is irrelevant as he later calls me town)
as far back as 1015 doesn't matter; C was still active back then.
the only mention i can find of a JOAT in games I've played (going off the 1st-page setup lists) is in ZFR's game where everyone was 3-use. In #64, Joe was a conditional SK who claimed 4 JOAT actions to live to another day.

willing to vote vitek; his claim to track me and the result is awfully convenient for scum because i had already announced my action and the result.

for good or ill, i could have tracked Carradice to whoever C role-kopped (maybe the person C claimed to have visited?), and been seen by a watcher if one had been there, but I was, instead, watching Dedo. not knowing about the regular/vanilla thing (because of having a PR), i didn't realize dedo was town and messed up by not tracking another.

So, you townies, who ought I to track if this game continues?

RN i'm going to sleep on this.
1 day 10 hours left
https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20200718T20&p0=136&msg=GOG+Mafia+%2367+Court+Phase+4&font=cursive&csz=1

Only If we can make use of it. In this case it's clear we cannot. It's just prolonging the inevitable.


Oooh! I finally realize how Vitek's report is negative towards Micro (I suppose I either missed the explanation or misunderstood what Lift meant). How does the action resolution normally work in this case? Is the blocked player's action negated or only the result? If the former Vitek's claim is in fact contradicting Micro's, if the latter they could both be real from mechanical standpoint. I tried to look it up on mafiascum but the examples there only appear to refer to the blocked player and not a 3rd player who also witnesses the original action in some way.


Flocke made a large post with thoughts and musings but still doesn't appear to have a list of 2 players for the supposed scum team.

Still willing to vote there. Today I will do my best to go over Vitek's posts, so please give me some more time to do that. By some time tonight I should be comfortable with voting.

Why trent? You point out what's in his favour. Yet you don't make a case against him.

@dedo: I hope your boy is better now. Wasp stings sting like hell and hurt for quite a while.


Because, to me, that claim sticks out. So I would like to have your view on it.

Well, NL at MYLO is only an option if there is any hope of gaining more information during the Night. That might lead to: let's not risk a mislynch but give our PRs one more Night to work.
However, that only works if there are PRs that can generate info. In our current situation, if your claim is true, we have one Tracker who is going to be blocked and one JOAT, who is probably lying. Since we all agree that it is unlikely that both you and Vitek are telling the truth. If your claim is false, it still is a better idea to lynch you than to NL and hope that Vitek's supposed remaining power will tilt the scales.



I think usually a blocked player doesn't move. At least that was the way I handled it as a Mod. But it might be that Pooka handles it differently.

Yes, he is fine now, thanks. It was only scary last evening as one of the stings was on the neck and apparently that was terribly paiful for him We put some ointment on it and once we knew it wasn't going to be a big deal it was just a matter of getting him to calm down and back to sleep. The other sting was on his thigh but I guess that one didn't hurt as bad. Anyway, all good now.

I think you are correct. Last time when you screwed me as scum (you suck!!) I was 2-shot roleblocker and I think the flavor was that I was nailing the target's doors so they couldn't leave their rooms. So that does make sense. If that is the "usual" resolution then it's another small bit that tips the scales towards Vitek being the one who is lying as his report would be blank and not corroborating Micro's claimed action like it is.

I see Flocke has posted, but nothing has really changed. I am good voting Flocke or Vitek as I think that is most likely who’s the remaining scum.

I think we have two remaining scum. Between the Vitek and Micro claims, I believe Micro more. I’m not voting Lift or dedo, if one of them is scum I tip my hat as they’ve played a masterful game and deserve the win. That leaves Flocke as the remaining scum.

Vote Vitek

I didn't back then but I did vote now :)

Still re-reading Vitek.

I'm done.

Check this out.

This is Today and at this point Vitek states that he believe there is scum between Trent and/or Flocke.

This is Vitek who supposedly tracked Micro to Trent's doorstep. If that track was true Town!Vitek would have known that Micro isn't the killer scum but something else. Let's assume the infamous Roleblocker. If Trent was the killer scum why would Scum!Micro waste the block or whatever other ability he has on his buddy? From Town!JOAT!Vitek's perspective the Micro/Trent scum team should be very unlikely yet he inserts Trent as one of his acceptable lynch targets. From his perspective the only likely scum teams should formed by any two out of Micro, Flocke and Lift. Yet he lists Trent here and also later on.

No, it wouldn't work from your JOAT's perspective.

Skadoosh.


Vote Vitek

I thought I talked about it but maybe I didn't. Apart his insistence on Carradice he was laying quite low and going with the flow to not make any waves to not alienate anyone and not to draw attention (with the exception of one small incident I think we all rather agree never happened). It's not much but someone's got to be it.


It it, though? Why?
I was unsure how it works and I still find ambigious. Mafiascum.net states "A Tracker that learns who a player targeted during the night is considered Normal" so as i read it, it doesn't say the action doesn't have to necessarily go through to be reported to anyone watching. ON the other hand logic suggests it would mean he went nowhere so it shouldn't turn up that way. It also depends on way RB would be described in flavour I guess. So I asked what way people see it.
If folks agree it's this way it means Micro lied and indeed visited trent.
That for me means he is scum and trent isn't if he was visited by Micro.

It is mistake but I understand you may believe Micro over me but how does it make it me more likely to be lying? What you say would makes sense if you take at face value Micro was blocked but that's what I was trying to figure out.


Shame on you for taking so long.

Mafiascum also says: "When an X-Shot role is blocked, the shot is not refunded; the player still counts as having "paid for" their role use, but the actual role is otherwise considered to not have happened (so, e.g., Trackers and Watchers will not be able to see the blocked role being used)."

Also, dedo is right. From your point of view, trent should be cleared if you were Town. Yes, his 'flying low' is a valid observation, but that can be caused by RL. Micro visiting trent could of course be the Town-Tracker Micro claims to be checking trent, as he claimed to have done. But not from your point of view. You agree that one of you two is probably lying. So you have Micro as likely scum. One scum visiting the other scum does not make sense at all. So if your reported track were true that would mean:
1. Micro and trent are definitely not scum together
2. Micro was probably lying about having been blocked
3. With Micro being likely scum (very likely from your point of view if you are Town), trent should be excluded.

So with your inclusion of trent in your suspect list you show that you were either not thinking it through or just desperately trying to widen the suspect pool beyond you and your scumbuddy +1. Or both.

So, Vitek is at L-1. If we assume that we've hit scum with him, the coming Night there will be probably no role-block (assuming normal roles and one left over scum). So one way or the other, the result of the Night will give us a bit of information.

Maybe now he can claim his alleged remaining shot.