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GameRager: I'd vote scene if there was a wagon on him atm, but there isn't. If that changes I would gladly change my vote, though.
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PookaMustard: Judging by the previous day, scene was a wagon that went up to L-2 before blotunga's took over. Meanwhile, Joe didn't even have a one-vote wagon by the end of Previous day. I think he had a RVS vote on him or two, but that was it. It is more likely that by the end of htis day, Scene will have a sizeable wagon.

This logic of voting if there was a wagon would apply if it's nearly the end of the Day and you need a lynch to go through, but we're still at the start. Even Joe's wagon itself consists of only you and scene (wagon starter) so...I'm still confuzzled. You could have voted scene instead.
I'm damned(in everyone's eyes) if I do and damned if I don't, basically. If I started the wagon on scene and he turns out to be town I will have made myself look suspect, and if I don't when I find him suspect then I also look suspect.

As I said: If scene gets a town lynched then I know he's likely scum and also know to analyze the wagon against Joe. I could unvote and revote scene but atm I am waiting to see where this wagon goes. If a wagon starts on scene i'll likely change my vote.
Still catching up, IRL has been life-y.

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dedoporno: I suspect that each of them thought the other one was too quiet and was maybe hiding a PR. Or they might have went for a low kill information (this seems more likely for the mafia and less so for the SK but who knows).

As for blotunga's wagon, I'm still waiting to hear from scene but here are some other thoughts on it. First of all, it was obviously a mistake but, to be honest, I don't think it was a bad wagon in itself and under the circumstances we had and in the vacuum of D1 it was acceptable. A few things to note:

Joe "started" the wagon with an RVS vote and never moved from it. The vote was said to be essentially baseless but later on it gained reasoning that solidified it in an real vote. That might have been a natural and organic transition or Joe was presented with good reasons to stick to his vote and not have to look for reasons to vote others. I tend to prefer the former as Joe said he wants to see SPF as mafia which checks out. Unless, of course, that was just D1 distancing and the SK surprised them which would probably be perfect for scum-Joe is it's making him look better for it. I'll leave this for now though as when I started writing this paragraph I had Joe more on the Town side of things but as I went on I started to hesitate what all of this means. I want to see him as Town as he is way too attractive to be scum.

Next is flub who joined the wagon after blotunga's questionable actions and explanations. Not much to say there. Can be opportunistic scum or over-vigilant Town who reacted on somewhat poor Town play.

Then it was myself, dedoporno - pretty much same the exact same thing as flub. Maybe I should be seen at as a tad more suspicious since this is now becoming a real wagon even though it takes quite a while to actually pick up.

Then it's Wyrm. Wagon is starting to roll now as we kind of need it (or the rival wagon) to pick up speed and Wyrm is bloodthirsty for it but this isn't exactly AI for him and under these conditions it becomes even harder to distinguish opportunistic voting for mislych from voting for the sake of securing a lynch on someone you actually find suspicious. Even more so when the votee has made himself look subpar.

Then SPF. Scum. He mentioned at one point that he would support the other wagon (scene) in case of need but never again got back to it even though at one point we were struggling to seal blotunga's. This may or may not mean something.

Then scene. This is pretty much the most interesting one. There is no point inn doing an overview, everyone has their observations of scene so far. I want(ed) to give it poor Town play as it's not the first time but it's not just one or two missteps. The weirdness keeps going and going. Some things that irk me at the end of the day, in the context of blotunga's wagon are #374 and and the next couple posts about lynching either of them. 374 felt redundant in the context of them basically battling each other for survival, it's almost as if it's to make the vote look a bit better and not only for self-preservation but out of need to secure the lynch. I'm not sure if I'm not reading this in a biased way now after my view has been tainted by everything preceding but it is what it is.

Finally trent with the hammer. This is a tricky one. I want to see trent as Town as based on his exchanges and couple of actions he felt like it. But then switched back from scene to blotunga even though he [trent] said earlier that he believes both are probably Town. I perfectly agree with lynching for the sake of getting a lynch to work with but I find it slightly odd when you vote for someone you down find scummy, especially in trent's case. He is one of the people who would always vote for a player they find scummy no matter what. So there is a bit of a contradiction there which I'm not exactly sure how to read.


That's my view of things so far. Thoughts and opinions are welcome and encouraged.
I...like this post. That is my gut reaction. Almost, he persuades me (to be just as confused as he was then?)

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Bookwyrm627: When thinking about what Agent did, put yourself in his shoes for a few minutes. Start with his victory condition, and then think through what you would need to do to achieve it.

SK has a certain freedom in that he needs to kill EVERYONE; he can go for any target of opportunity. He needs to make sure the mafia gets killed at SOME point, but he doesn't want them to go out too early because then everyone starts hunting specifically for him. It wouldn't hurt if he could claim credit for killing one, but he needs to avoid being too active in killing mafia so they don't retaliate against him.

I'd guess that Agent went for someone on the outskirts. I can't remember a single thing SPF did that was notable. He existed, he sort of posted, but he never left a mark. I'm guessing Agent wasn't aiming for Mafia, he was aiming to kill someone that wouldn't lead back to him. Based on events, Agent likely took Investigation Immune; there had to be a Town Vig targeting Agent in the mix if he took Bullet Proof, and as Dedo mentioned there isn't a lot that would paint Agent as a target for a Vig. Future nights should clarify this.

Also keep in mind that Agent didn't know anything more about the scum team than Town did. Don't try to analyze his reactions to identify his partners (or mafia) because he literally had no allies in this game. It might be worth looking over his posts for scum hunting, but we have no guarantee that he was actually doing any scum hunting, since mud serves him much better than clarity.

I plead the fifth. If I did kill him, it was either because I thought he deserved or because I wanted a low information kill or because he had the nicest skin and I wanted it. One of those.
Are you sure you didn't do to have a nice head to mount on your wall?
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Bookwyrm627: Masons, if you exist, then please claim now. Mason claims would allow each townie (except the Masons themselves) to effectively clear at least 3 players out of the 10. That narrows the field quite a bit, and seeing who isn't cleared by the mason claims could be very enlightening indeed.

If you are a group of 3 Masons, then that goes triple, since scum can't claim that.
Please explain further. Refresh my memory, if you prefer that phraseology. How would it enable others to clear yet others? I saw nothing in the setup rules/mafia wiki to indicate that masons cannot be scum, or have 1 of 3 masons as scum. Pleas enlighten me.


Please bump if you see this before i have posted again.
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supplementscene: snip...

@Joe what do you make of SPF being on your wagon for so long until late into Day 1? Is he your scumbuddy this time?

@GOGTRIAL - Blotunga stated you misrepresented him and I've claimed the same about some of your posts. How do you feel about this after he flipped town?

@Bookwyrm - why switch wagons and not switch back at any stage? Why not argue harder for your preferred wagon if you preferred me?

For me I'd stick with being suspicious of both Gogtrial, Trent and Bookwyrm. Note Blotunga also stated he was happy to lynch Gogtrial

...Trent. ...but personally I like to stick on 1 wagon and try to convince others to come over for all the success that has granted me...

As Trent points out Bookwyrm also switched wagons. Did he make enough effort to convince anyone?

I also question, did he really believe Pooka was suspicious because Pooka voted for Scene nearer the end with (was it 2 days to go?) because Pooka said he didn't want an early lynch? Does that make sense, especially after Pooka

BUT, then I look at SPF. Why was he so vehemently on Joe's wagon for so long? When I play Scum I like to distance by jumping on a Scumbuddies wagon. Was SPF doing this? It almost means SPF doesn't have to fear offending Town players.
Hmmm.

Especially after Pooka WHAT?

I am thinking my main suspects are:
Scene, because of things already stated by others,
GOGtrial--IF scene is innocent, I strongly think GOGtrial reeks (maybe he only needs a shower?)
Trent, for reasons that I have previously quoted.
Book, for being so eager to lunch, and being willing (it seems to me) to switch votes based off of very little evidence. His pleading the 5th makes me suspect he had some role in killing one of the twain.

@Gamerager, Flub is ALWAYS hard to read...except when he turns into a book. Books are good. Be one, please. What would your spine say? The hidden index in the back? What would it say under "mafia" and "alignment"?
Care to let anyone snoop?

@Joe, can i please have a few nuggets of gold? My bank account would like them very much.

@gamerager: I'll help you out.

For all reasons which have been enumerated by others, I cannot see Joe as scum...yet.

@mod vote Vitamin-Pill Scene
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gogtrial34987: From those around, it looks like either me or trent could hammer blotunga.
For scene, we'd need Joe + bookwyrm + spf to move (assuming dedo already is gone), or two of those if blotunga shows up.

I'm guessing blotunga it is?
Gog's push for M!SPF to move to T!blot looks...weird.

EXPLAIN, Please!

If you can, and aren't scum yourself. Methinks you might be, but cannot be sure. Thus, I'm not voting you...yet. (Of course, I might change my mind.) What made you say this & push for blot--remind me, why were you so suspecting of blot? Now is the time for you to revisit the thought patterns that saw blot as scum and re-evaluate them.

Since we have enough "spare" votes to last a few nights against the 1 or 2 mafia, i will leave my vote on scene for now. Analysis of the sort I did in #57 is beyond me right now, i see plenty of eye-raising stuff but nothing damning. Going over stuff, i mislike scene far more than I did yesterday; because of the headroom we have, I am comfortable lunching him today. Else, I would go for one of (in order). 1, gogtrial. 2, trent. 3, book. 4, joe/game/flub (but i currently don't want to). 5, i'm not sure, but lean dedo--again i don't want to.
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GameRager: Ok then, but why use the word LUNCH instead of lunch yet again? Odd wording....sending singals to other scum/town or what?

===========================

If that's true and you get lunched then I will gladly go after whoever voted you as suspect/possible scum, starting with scene.
It's a sort of joke stemming from EleButterfly misreading the word a few games back - but also I use it because once the filters at my work picked up on something I'd written in the game and got me flagged up by some senior staff to explain why I was talking about killing cops. So LUNCH is less likely to set off any weird scanners or whatever too.

===

Hm. Well I'm fairly sure scene is town, so that prospect isn't too reassuring for me.


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GameRager: I am suspicious of scene for the reasons I listed previously, so I am going with his vote and also voting the same. If Joe is proven town then I will vote for scene the next day as that will make me more suspicious of him.
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dedoporno: You are suspicious of scene and you would rather mislynch first and then go after scene than go for him directly? Wat?
do YOU think it would be a missedlunch?

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Microfish_1: For all reasons which have been enumerated by others, I cannot see Joe as scum...yet.
Reasons??? What reasons?
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GameRager: Care to enlighten us skimmers? :).

and one I missed when skimming)
So this is confirmation of what I asked earlier, that you only skimread the thread.

This is very bad townplay because if you are town you can't get true reads of anyone.

BUT Mafia players skimread because they don't need to work out who's who - they already know


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supplementscene: Re-reading and I think Joe is Mafia:

8. Joe uses the phrase LUNCH instead of LYNCH

============================

Good to hear, I'm off to edit all of the really suspicious posts I've made now I've been given the okay on this
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GameRager: Hmm, you make a good point with that last one. o.0

Vote JoeSapphire

(Be aware that I am doing it mainly to see if you are scum trying to get town lynched, and if he is proven town and gets lynched I will have my sights on you the next day)

============================

I wouldn't do that.....;)
This reasoning doesn't make sense. You're voting for Joe not because you think he's Mafia but in order to lynch me on Day 3? As if I as a Town player somehow know the alignment of Joe? This just sounds massively scummy.

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GameRager: I'd vote scene if there was a wagon on him atm, but there isn't. If that changes I would gladly change my vote, though.
Which screams opportunistic. This isn't how Town plays or shouldn't be. Town tries to work out most likely Mafia Player and convince others to join. You simply want to jump on a viable wagon, presumably a viable Town wagon

VOTE GAMERAGER
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JoeSapphire: do YOU think it would be a missedlunch?
I can't be certain but 'd like to think that it will be, yes. That isn't the point though. What baffles me is that GR seems to believe scene is scum which suggests that you must be Town (otherwise we are looking at some idiotic and unnecessary early bussing which makes no sense of the next to last scum player). GR would rather lynch the townie first in order to prove that his main suspect is scum instead of just going for the scum directly. This makes absolutely no sense to me.
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JoeSapphire: do YOU think it would be a missedlunch?
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dedoporno: I can't be certain but 'd like to think that it will be, yes. That isn't the point though. What baffles me is that GR seems to believe scene is scum which suggests that you must be Town (otherwise we are looking at some idiotic and unnecessary early bussing which makes no sense of the next to last scum player). GR would rather lynch the townie first in order to prove that his main suspect is scum instead of just going for the scum directly. This makes absolutely no sense to me.
It makes perfect sense if Gamerager is Mafia and setting up 2 town players
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PookaMustard: I've been a little busy. I was managing my passwords on Google, with the end goal being to have no passwords saved on Google, and having most passwords changed. As you can imagine, this took a bit of time that I could have used to play Mafia. However, I'll do a little something for now and hopefully I address the rest later.

If scene is scum trying to get town lynched, shouldn't the vote BE ON SCENE? It's strange that you're voting Joe on the premise that if he flips town, you'll keep your eyes on scene.
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GameRager: I'd vote scene if there was a wagon on him atm, but there isn't. If that changes I would gladly change my vote, though.
Why wouldn’t you start a wagon on someone if you think they might be scum? Why only join someone’s wagon if someone else starts it?
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dedoporno: Say what now?
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GameRager: I am suspicious of scene for the reasons I listed previously, so I am going with his vote and also voting the same. If Joe is proven town then I will vote for scene the next day as that will make me more suspicious of him.

...............
Not town.


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GameRager: ...............
As I said(how could I explain it simpler?): I will join the wagon and if Joe turns out town then I will analyze his wagon compared to the first day's wagon and pick the most likely suspect to vote next...

.............
Not town


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GameRager: .....................
I'd vote scene if there was a wagon on him atm, but there isn't. If that changes I would gladly change my vote, though.
Not town.


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GameRager: ..............

I'm damned(in everyone's eyes) if I do and damned if I don't, basically. If I started the wagon on scene and he turns out to be town I will have made myself look suspect, and if I don't when I find him suspect then I also look suspect.

As I said: If scene gets a town lynched then I know he's likely scum and also know to analyze the wagon against Joe. I could unvote and revote scene but atm I am waiting to see where this wagon goes. If a wagon starts on scene i'll likely change my vote.
Not town.


Vote: GameRager
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GameRager: I'm damned(in everyone's eyes) if I do and damned if I don't, basically. If I started the wagon on scene and he turns out to be town I will have made myself look suspect, and if I don't when I find him suspect then I also look suspect.
Then again, you started the wagon on Joe, and if he turns town, you would have made yourself look suspect in pretty much the same way. Except if you had voted for scene, even started his wagon, you would have less heat on you than voting Joe out of nowhere because scene voted him.

Remember that at best we're searching for one needle in the haystack, and at worst, two, so mislynches are bound to happen. And given what we're seeing right now, I'm more willing to lynch you than scene.
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PookaMustard: what is the best playstyle for a SK to ensure his victory condition?
*shrug* SKs usually don't win since they need to be the last one standing. We've had a few get close, including an outrageous Flub claim that Yog only toppled at pretty much the last minute, and Cristigale managed to pull out an SK win at least once.

I'd say the best playstyle is to assume you aren't going to win, so just enjoying yourself while trying to live as long as you can and kill as many people as you can.

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supplementscene: @Bookwyrm - why switch wagons and not switch back at any stage? Why not argue harder for your preferred wagon if you preferred me?
I switched to Blotunga when it looked like your wagon wasn't going to finish while his might. I was fine with either of you being lynched, so I certainly wasn't going to stress myself about which one of you actually got the noose. Also, I've learned that I can push, but it has a tendency not to work so I've mostly stopped trying very hard on that front. I'll list (or not) my reasons and vote.

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ZFR: Not from me. If it was up to me, I'd let everyone edit their posts all day long. But my mod partner Lift... he's crazy. Really hates mergers. I wouldn't put anything past him.

In all seriousness though: please do be careful everyone. Don't test my leniency too much.
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supplementscene: Good to hear, I'm off to edit all of the really suspicious posts I've made now I've been given the okay on this
Okay, that DID make me laugh.

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dedoporno: Mason claims I do understand but I don't think gogtrial and Pooka were talking about masons.
I genuinely don't know what you mean, what you are referencing, how this applies, etc.

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dedoporno: As for the numbers I didn't look at things from this perspective. Mylo and Lylo are still quite far away to worry about.
Maybe, but with a mason claim we might be able to simply win mechanically via Yogsloth's favorite method: lynch our way right through everyone who didn't get cleared.

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Bookwyrm627: Your information is wrong, therefore you didn't pay much attention to the setup page, therefore you aren't scum, because only scum are going to closely read the setup.
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dedoporno: Heh. I didn't mean it in that way and I'm pretty sure you are aware of that.
I probably started too oblique and then remained so.

For clarity: The setup does have a possible group of 3 masons; it requires 4M when rolling for roles. In this particular game, only one person could know there aren't 3 masons: a scum Godfather who lost their only partner N1 (he would know there couldn't be enough M's).

Scene talked about how only Scum would really look at the setup, thus my initial two comments.

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GameRager: If I started the wagon on scene and he turns out to be town I will have made myself look suspect, and if I don't when I find him suspect then I also look suspect.
Good news! Being overly worried about what does and does make you look suspect...makes you look suspect!

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Bookwyrm627: I plead the fifth. If I did kill him, it was either because I thought he deserved or because I wanted a low information kill or because he had the nicest skin and I wanted it. One of those.
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Microfish_1: Are you sure you didn't do to have a nice head to mount on your wall?
Hm, true. Heads DO make for lovely decorations.

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Microfish_1: Please explain further. Refresh my memory, if you prefer that phraseology. How would it enable others to clear yet others? I saw nothing in the setup rules/mafia wiki to indicate that masons cannot be scum, or have 1 of 3 masons as scum. Pleas enlighten me.
Masons, by definition, are a town role. That's the whole point of the Mason role: every Mason knows that every Mason in their group is Town. If a Mason isn't town, then he isn't a Mason.

For an easy example: if we get a claim of 3 masons (where each one confirms the others), then we know they all have to be town. That means each non-town player now knows 4 players who can't be scum (themself and the group of masons). Example with names: Pretend that Scene, Trent, and I all claimed to be a group of 3 masons (and we all confirm each other); this means that town!micro knows 4 players are confirmed town (Scene, Trent, Wyrm, and Micro).

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JoeSapphire: but also I use it because once the filters at my work picked up on something I'd written in the game and got me flagged up by some senior staff to explain why I was talking about killing cops. So LUNCH is less likely to set off any weird scanners or whatever too.
Oh snap! I'm now much more amused than annoyed by your continued use of something that messes with certain searches. I imagine THAT conversation wasn't a very comfortable one.

---

I don't feel the need to parrot what many other people have already said about GameRager, nor repeat myself from D1.

Vote GameRager.
Vote Count

(When you see a vote count please quickly make sure your vote is against the correct player. Let me know if it's not)

GameRager 3 - scene, flub, Bookwyrm
JoeSapphire 1 - GameRager
Micro 1 - trent
scene 1 - Micro


Everyone else - 0
Not voting: JoeSapphire, Pooka, gogtrial, dedo

10 players left. It takes 6 to lynch.
GameRager is closest at L-3
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Microfish_1: Else, I would go for one of (in order). 1, gogtrial. 2, trent. 3, book. 4, joe/game/flub (but i currently don't want to). 5, i'm not sure, but lean dedo--again i don't want to.
Have you checked GameRager's recent posts? What do you think of him voting Joe despite thinking that scene is scummy, and the fact he'd go after scene if Joe flips town? Do you think this deserves a vote?
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Bookwyrm627: ...............

live as long as you can and kill as many people as you can.

..............
My new life goal.