I expect that we'll reach consensus, but I explicitly want to guard against making mistakes under pressure of deadline. We're at mylo, not lylo, so if we don't manage to feel good about who we lynch, let's take the time to do it proper.
Of course, if we don't have anything to talk about anymore by Thursday, and lack consensus, I'll be all in favour of pushing someone to L-2 or even L-1, with the lack of hammer providing proof for whoever's the holdout.

Fair enough. I don't mind taking the time to do it proper, but I don't really feel like sitting around for two Days while people faff about interminably.

---

Anyway, that's the bell for work. Time for me to go home and definitely NOT break rule 15.

Who has two thumbs and breaks mod rules? Not this guy!

And who benefits from speedy decisions/lynches??

I agree with taking time to think this through but I also agree with Wyrm - there isn't much point in delaying things. I believe your assumption is likely to end up correct and the only confirmed Town will be taken out which would leave us in the same spot regarding current unknowns. At the same time it'll take one vote less to seal a lynch which is a single mistaken Townie.

About time, eh?

Sure. Except for the part where it says I have to be on the scum team.

I mean, can you list examples? Far as I know, we're not really in your shoes, so nobody can tell if this is a legit point you're raising against me or just filler in the hopes you get me mislynched.

Again, it's hard to stand out when you're outshined by
- supplementcene being supplementscene
- GameRager's weird play
I can actually say the same thing about gogtrial's own posts; they're also outshined by the above, and yet he's my best town read so far. Interestingly, you're putting me on the opposite end with the same circumstances.

Yes, this is how I do ISOs. I laser focus on a person and read their posts as far as I can and bring up points I missed, points that slipped past me, etc. The whole thing with Jack the Ripper and Buffalo Bill at the time seemed less of a pressing matter than scene or GameRager, and just like scene, I read the thing with Ripper as a joke.

But then later, I said I would ISO flub and come out with my findings.
I spotted these things in a constant stream, and there it finally snapped in my head. I'm not sure what flub was up to with these posts. So I brought them up in the post you mentioned. They may appear meaningless or distracting to you, but to me, these questions and the input I want is the difference between townreading or scumreading flub.

The reason why I ask for input is because some of the things that appear weird to me with flub can make sense to someone more familiar with him. I'd surely like that someone's input to complement mine so I can be sure of whether flub is best town-read or scum-read.

If I were scum, then it would be very bold of me to just jump straight into the vanilla town claim, no? You asked for a claim, I said "Sure, I'm vanilla." I could have tried the argument that this would put other power roles at risk and buy some time. Additionally if I were scum, as you said, I just confirmed the town roles. Which wouldn't be in my favor as scum, since clarity is something scum hate.

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Even more interesting, huh. A possible mini-conflict between flub and bookwyrm.

Well, I guess I have to read both flub and bookwyrm in different states to try and make some sense out of this.

Town Flub - Town Wyrm: This conflict would make sense...but why do it? Both are vanilla town so they can't know for sure if they're being town-read or not, but I don't like that flub's keeping the vote on Wyrm despite everything.
Town Flub - Scum Wyrm: I got to admit that if Wyrm is scum, his response feels...mild. He says with underlining that flub is scum, but there is not much here in the way of pursuing a person he is "convinced" to be scum.
Scum Flub - Town Wyrm: Read from this perspective, the fact that Flub is keeping his vote on Wyrm for the reasons stated by flub may sound like scum pulling off a desperation attack. From my perspective, this whole mini-conflict makes the most sense here.
Scum Flub - Scum Wyrm: Bus harder please!


I made up my mind. I think flub appears scummier than Bookwyrm here.

This time I will take my own (and gogtrial's) advise and take the time. I don't feel like making another rush decision as this time it's likely to cost everyone.

Will look at this tomorrow morning.

Head's up that I'm not certain I'll manage to pull all my disparate thoughts together into a post tonight; am being sidetracked into checking up on things for nearly every thought. I intend to keep at it for about an hour, and see at that point where I'm at.

People who are desperately trying not to break rule 15.

Bumps

Mostly it is a general feeling, and it has been around most of the game.

Specific comments to back up my suspicion: Stuff like "scum kickstarting a wagon" in post 211. (and your answer in 247 didn't make me feel better about your alignment; too many scum everywhere on the wagon)

I had the bad feeling in 351. Shame I never followed up with that check-up, though.

Bad feeling noted in 794.

You just never quite became a priority.

You don't need to stand out a la Scene or GR. As examples, I offer Gogtrial or Dedo on his more active, game-solvey days (don't play like Dedo when he's on a business trip, since he's too busy to play :-D ). You can be involved in the game, offering opinions, actually taking guesses and making a stand, without necessarily being a distraction.

To quote Lord Bane from Warlords 3: "Activity is often mistaken for achievement."

Here we are in the late game.

You note that Jack the Ripper (and the VT "claim") is a joke. You talk about his claim to be Buffalo Bill (with no mention made of lotioner), as if the name mattered. You later comment that you can't make sense of his early role claims.

You ask about what two town doctors on the same wagon could mean, and note that Joe later goes for me. You don't display that you drew any conclusions from these "interesting" ideas. You don't even try to talk about why they might be interesting.

You ISO'd Flub, and the end result is that you should hear someone else's opinion before forming your own. You took no stands, offered no ideas to try and resolve these interesting things you found.

I can't see the relevance, in any form, of half the things you found "interesting" (like the 'contradictory' cop/doctor "claim" from Flub; it is patently obvious that Flub can't be both).

No, it was absolutely not bold at all. VT was the absolute safest claim you could have made, since there was space in the setup for at least one more VT regardless of what roles Gogtrial and I might have claimed. VT couldn't be counter claimed.

How would you confirm the town roles? If you got counter claimed, or if our three claims together didn't match up to the remaining letter slots, then whomever's claims caused conflicts would be up for immediate risk of lynch.

For example, if you claimed 1-shot Role Blocker and Gogtrial claimed full Vig, then you two would automatically be competing to see who got lynched because at least one of you would have to be lying. That's independent of anything I might have claimed.

If you're talking about us going forward with the mass claim, we could have left you in the position of not claiming even though scum would know whether you had a role. As you note, scum prefer to keep the information to themselves of they have the option, so your hesitance would have stood out.

Funny thing I was thinking of; if "everyone" left is VT, the mafia RB has nobody to block. :D I wonder who they have previously blocked.
However, there might be a cop/vig left over in hiding. Thoughts? Claims?

Does this "basically" mean you are basically VT, but the minor difference of being scum instead of town? Are you claiming VM (ie goon)--or since there are no more PRs to block(?), are you MRB?

See. I knew you really cared.

I agree, PookaMustard is scum.

Post #931 is what I've done to look town without taking a firm stand. Also the "Basically" in post #944.

I was reading you in post #949 in a serious voice which led to me concluding you were NOT being sarcastic.

Unvote: Bookwyrm627

In case anyone cares, my 1st (bad) attempt at breadcrumbing began with #515 (including my name):
This post, regarding Flub, might still have merit, but the interesting part is my claim
(the VIG part is the 1st of every paragraph; the one-shot is one paragraph because of being "one-hyphenated-word")

I'm afraid to discuss the likeliness of this as I'll probably mess the possibilities up once more but more importantly this does not matter at this point. Even if it did there is no point in trying to figure out / expose Town PRs.


Nice! FYI, the earlier these are done the better.


By the looks of things I'm inclined to side with Wyrm on pretty much everything.

At the end of yesterday I had the scum being one or two of Flub-Micro-Pooka based on previous wagons and general feelings. Obviously I have Flub as top pick but my second was actually Micro since I just can't connect his posts (even now he is talking about stuff that I don't see the reason for). Having Micro cleared leaves Pooka.

As I said before I just can't see gogtrial and/or Wyrm being scum so I'm ready to build on that. If it's wrong whomever the scum is they can have it. It will be a well deserved win (especially of the two of them are the scum team but yeah, no).

Anyway, placing all of this pieces together leaves Pooka and Flub. By the looks of things bussing is starting to become a thing as well.

I'll vote for either one of them.

I only want to Vote PookaMustard, but I'll wait until it's a consensus.