I am not a cop. I have no idea by dedo had his bags searched and some stuff missing. I've made my claim, it's the truth. Speculating I'm something else is just going to cause confusion for town.

The thing is there is no way to know this without going through with the lynch. I don't think not doing so is in any way a viable strategy since for us two cat is out of the bag one way or another. If we aren't confirmed or dealt with in some way we will either be targets anyway, so no reason in revealing more of those or we may be left alive for endless WIFOM. If we are both lynched - even better for scum, since they can proceed with picking other targets. Once more - no reason to give those away at this point. So far I believe we are more likely than not to succeed which yet again doesn't require additional information.

All in all I can't see any situation in which this is a good strategic play but I see it as a terrible outcome if Trent flips Town. I'm automatically under suspicion of framing him and potentially the top lynch pick for Tomorrow if no redeeming data emerges overnight. In this situation we have given away a target for scum during the night. They take them out, leave me alive for being lynched and then we're really up against it.

I can't say I approve your logic on this at all.

I just had a thought. So far we have four claims of people being read. Two are rooting through packs, two are brain scans. Something seems off here. I guess town could have both an alignment cop, and a role cop, and I could understand mafia having a role cop, but where does the last one come from? It wouldn't make sense for scum to have an alignment cop, unless they are up against a third party team or something.

@bler Why do you want a mass claim so much? Also I don't see how not mass claiming before Day three will sink us.

I'm inclined against a mass claim, but I can see Bler's logic.

Assume for a moment that all scum are on the same team. Assume also that the NK goes through.
->If there are 5 scum, and Trent is town, then town loses right here, no Night 2.
->If there are 4 scum, and Trent is town, then LyLo starts on Day 3.
->If there are 3 scum, and Trent is town, and mislynch occurs Day 3, then LyLo starts on Day 4.

Breaking either of those initial assumptions means more time:
-We may have two or more protective roles in play, which may block kills and extend the game.
-If scum are split into multiple groups, then we're likely in for a longer game regardless.

Of course, if Trent is scum, then he has to be lynched. I don't see No Lynch as a good idea, so the question becomes "Who?"

It's either me or Trent. There shouldn't be another option. We need to be dealt with in some way with priority. Otherwise we leave the scum a WIFOM playground to thrive on.

Unless there is an actual Town Alignment Cop who picked scum on their investigation and we have a surefire lynch available we shouldn't move away from one of us two. I'm not even sure if the Cop (if there is one and they have the golden info) shouldn't keep it for tomorrow.

First off, as I don't believe I remembered to clarify: As far as I know, nothing was taken from my pack.

I do wonder why Trentonlf encouraged people to be open about events during the night and not mention the weapon-drawing incident - if, assuming for a moment that Trent was town and said tracker had been on the scum side, they could have kept more quiet about him hiding something and we'd have ended up with a dead power role and no way of knowing how they knew...

That said, I'm not entirely convinced that it has to have been Trentonlf who raided the pack. Given Dedo's night message would have explicitly mentioned Trentonlf visiting him, I'm not quite sure how further flavour for a Bodyguard (or a few other roles) visiting would be fitted in...

As discussion is still ongoing, I don't want to add a vote now, but... well, what sort of paladin has a knife as their go-to weapon? I wasn't going to bring it up when it was just Dedo mentioning it, but with Trentonlf also mentioning it, I'd have expected something more along the lines of a sword or mace?

Dagger does seem like a bit more dastardly blade but at the same time it can be a secondary weapon, so this may or may not be of importance.

On the whole, you put it better than I did. I will say though, there's a potential flaw in the above point. If you assume more than 1 non-town group, the game is only extended if the second party does not have an NK. At this point I don't think we know that that's true with certainty.

If there are Two NKs the field will thin faster, even if all non-town lack a unified vote.

Trent has now more or less confirmed the bulk of your claim, and while maybe Yog is experimenting with bastard modding to defeat expectations, but I think it's fairly unlikely scum have a tracker. And not else sure how to explain your visit as claimed by you and corroborated by Trent. So while I'll let the WIFOM play for the field, in my view I don't think today's decision on Trent automatically determines what happens on D3 should you live through the night. FoS? Yes. Definitive scum? Eh.

The flaw in Trent's position is really why he didn't share about what happened N1, and then the incongruous response. So if he's lying he could have made the gambit about making the town distrust you, but instead he's tried to get out sideways.

So even he hasn't made the gambit about you vs. him. Of course, we don't yet know whether that's because his current claim is the truth, or because he's scum but recognized that if he did make it about his credibility vs. yours he would absolutely lose.

The field will thin faster, yes, but I think the game will go longer because the two scum factions won't be unified and they'll almost certainly have to take each other out to win. The game ends comparatively earlier if it is town versus one scum faction because scum can just bring the numbers to parity in order to win, as opposed to having to wipe out an opposing scum faction completely (more kills needed).

If the second "group" is some kind of neutral survivor, then we don't have a split in the scum group.

It's a hypothetical and without more details we mostly are just 'thinking' rather than 'knowing.' But on the bigger picture I think we're agreeing.

I don't have my handy spreadsheet at work, but with QA now having chimed in, on cursory glance I think the one person who hasn't made an appearance since Dedo's claim is Hijack, correct?

I will make an admission. I seem to have somehow skipped this post entirely. I was a bit confused when Wyrm made his summary and should have gone back looking at that time but was engaged in other debates. Just found it now with some time to go back and review.

In my defense I read the thread (511-530) before I'd even gotten out of bed whereas usually I get up and shower first.

I'd still like to hear from Hijack before we move, but otherwise, I'll concede that the best play is probably not to talk more and just proceed.

@Trent, I asked Adalia this, I believe I should ask you as well.

What would you do if you were on the other side of your wagon right now with all data presented so far? Would you go through with your lynch or do something else?

All right. IF you flip town, I will take this into consideration. But dedo and you both telling the truth would require this to be some kind of bastard (or otherwise screwed up) game. That is a possibility, but I do hope that it is not the case. Because if the game itself is not consistent, how are we supposed to find inconsistencies in what people post?


Exactly. Now the only question is: can we still gain something useful from continued discussion? Or do we just give scum more time to come up with some kind of deception, if we continue to delay the necessary lynch?

To all: any more ideas about something that would be necessary to discuss before nightfall?

@dedo You know me, I would have already lynched myself.

@lift sorry to tell you, but I will flip town and everyone will just have to figure out who is lying. I could be wrong about dedo, but I'm pretty secure in my thoughts of him being town. It's the reason I chose to protect him. Whoever I chose to protect I had to protect from that moment on. I almost went with RW instead, guess I should have as he could help shed some light on this big mess going on.