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General discussionGOG and censorship(255 posts)(255 posts)
(255 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted February 26, 2015
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moonshineshadow: But the problem here is, that it is not against the law. Mortal Kombat has been taken from the "Confiscated" games list since 2005 which means it is allowed to be sold to adults.
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HiPhish: True, but if it is still indexed it cannot be advertised. I am no lawyer, but I assume putting up a page for purchase counts as advertising. In retail you wouldn't be allowed to place it on the shelf either. Which makes the "it may still be sold" part pretty pointless.
Hmm you may be right. I did not think of it that way. If just having it on the website counts as advertising gog can not sell it. Great input thanks :-)
Posted February 26, 2015
And for Australia, if a publisher decides not to try to get the game published in Australia, GOG blocks the sale so that it's not distributing a product that's not even published there?
Posted February 26, 2015
They could at least introduce an age verification process and add a 18+ category thats available once the age is verified... But since people have been asking for this on Steam for ages i guess it won't happen here either. Thats... not great.
Posted February 26, 2015
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ignisferroque: They could at least introduce an age verification process and add a 18+ category thats available once the age is verified... But since people have been asking for this on Steam for ages i guess it won't happen here either. Thats... not great.
I thought the digital age was supposed to solve ALL OUR PROBLEMS!
Posted February 26, 2015
Because of your country laws...
Posted February 26, 2015
Sometimes the law is the law. Don't fuck with Dredd man!
Posted February 26, 2015
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OldFatGuy: Are you sure this is true??? Obviously you know more about your own country than I do, but, for instance, it's illegal for me to buy marijuana. Even though it's legal in several US States now, I can't go online and buy it from, say, Colorado or Washington, and have it shipped to me here. These type of restrictive laws usually apply to the point of delivery, not the point of sale.
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moonshineshadow: I am not sure if it is legal. It comes down to this: Does buying digital games from a store not located in Germany count as import. If yes gog would be allowed to sell the games here to Germans.
And even if the answer is no, this only applies to confiscated games and not to games that are on the Index (like Mortal Kombat), which just means it is not allowed to be sold to minors.
It doesn't even apply for confiscated (some would call them banned) games as the import, buying and owning is allowed in Germany. Selling is also allowed but very limited regarding germany's highest court (BGH).

I suggest this article
http://www.gamestar.de/specials/reports/3083170/jugendschutz_in_deutschland.html
Posted February 26, 2015
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toxicTom: It's illegal for you to buy marijuana, that's the difference.
In Germany it's not illegal to buy or own a banned game (except in quantities that imply trading), but it's illegal to sell (or even gift) it. Since GOG is in Poland, they can sell it. And I can buy it. But are at risk getting their site "indexed" for offering material illegal in Germany. This would mean they would disappear from all German search results (google.de, bing.de...) and could lead to problems for German sites linking here.
Oh, thank you for the clarification.

I must admit that seems.... bizarre. It's banned, but you can buy it and own it as long as you did so outside Germany even if you then return to Germany?

Back the MJ example, it's not only illegal for me to buy it, it's illegal for me to possess it. As it is other things that are banned. I guess our two cultures use of the term "banned" is a bit different. See, if I physically travelled to Colorado and purchased some MJ, I could still be arrested if I brought it back to my home state (Virginia).

DISCLAIMER:
Not to threadjack, but if any residents of any of the various states that have legalized versions of MJ sales in the US are reading, I will give you the same warning I give to my family and all of my friends. Even though your state may have passed MJ legalization, IT IS STILL AGAINST FEDERAL LAW to sell, grow, or possess, which applies in all US states and territories.
Post edited February 26, 2015 by OldFatGuy
Posted February 26, 2015
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moonshineshadow: I am not sure if it is legal. It comes down to this: Does buying digital games from a store not located in Germany count as import. If yes gog would be allowed to sell the games here to Germans.
And even if the answer is no, this only applies to confiscated games and not to games that are on the Index (like Mortal Kombat), which just means it is not allowed to be sold to minors.
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DanTheKraut: It doesn't even apply for confiscated (some would call them banned) games as the import, buying and owning is allowed in Germany. Selling is also allowed but very limited regarding germany's highest court (BGH).

I suggest this article
http://www.gamestar.de/specials/reports/3083170/jugendschutz_in_deutschland.html
That is what I said. You are allowed to buy and import them...
Posted February 26, 2015
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OldFatGuy: Oh, thank you for the clarification.
I must admit that seems.... bizarre. It's banned, but you can buy it and own it as long as you did so outside Germany even if you then return to Germany?
Well it's of course different with other "banned" things like drugs or firearms. The legal term for banned games, books, movies is "confiscated". Basically, it's forbidden "to pass them on". Buying them abroad and bringing them back is not a problem anymore - a few years ago the media would really have been confiscated if caught at the border. Bringing more than one copy is a problem though since it's suspected that you want to "pass" at least some of them "on". I have friends who are collectors and routinely have the problem if this suspicion when ordering/bringing several different versions of the same title.
Posted February 26, 2015
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toxicTom: It's illegal for you to buy marijuana, that's the difference.
In Germany it's not illegal to buy or own a banned game (except in quantities that imply trading), but it's illegal to sell (or even gift) it. Since GOG is in Poland, they can sell it. And I can buy it. But are at risk getting their site "indexed" for offering material illegal in Germany. This would mean they would disappear from all German search results (google.de, bing.de...) and could lead to problems for German sites linking here.
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OldFatGuy: Oh, thank you for the clarification.

I must admit that seems.... bizarre. It's banned, but you can buy it and own I as long as you did so outside Germanyt?
Germany is a bit special with this. Basic Law for the Federal Republic of Germany does not allow censorship as you can read in Article 5 [Freedom of expression] "Every person shall have the right freely to express and disseminate his opinions in speech, writing, and pictures and to inform himself without hindrance from generally accessible sources. Freedom of the press and freedom of reporting by means of broadcasts and films shall be guaranteed. There shall be no censorship." (means pre-censorship). Post censorship is allowed up to a certain point this is why games, movies, books, music and so on can get indexed by the BPjM. Indexed only means that those media isn't allowed to be sold and advertised in places minors have access but adults are of course allowed to buy it. Indexed media is handled like porn in most countries (compare it with adult stores in the US).
In Germany there is also the possibility (sadly it is there) that media can get sales restricted by a court (after it was indexed) this affects the sales to a point which basically disallows them (person to person is allowed as example) also advertising is banned then but again you are allowed to import, buy and of course to own those media.

What many people also don't know there is no need for a age verification in Germany if a game is unrated it is automatically rated 18 nothing else (no restrictions).

German laws do only affect shops placed in Germany of course like US laws only affect shops in the US. If you buy something somewhere else you are only protected and affected up to a certain degree by the laws of your country.
Posted February 26, 2015
Does Anyone want the Uncencored English Version of I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream?
Posted February 26, 2015
Doesn't GOG advertise itself being DRM free? Why do they offer Commandos then? You can't start the game with german system language which is basically DRM.
Posted February 26, 2015
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DanTheKraut: German laws don't count for GOG because GOG isn't store placed in Germany so would you be so kind and let german customers decide what to buy and what not.
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OldFatGuy: Are you sure this is true??? Obviously you know more about your own country than I do, but, for instance, it's illegal for me to buy marijuana. Even though it's legal in several US States now, I can't go online and buy it from, say, Colorado or Washington, and have it shipped to me here. These type of restrictive laws usually apply to the point of delivery, not the point of sale.
That example would fall under interstate commerce, which of course is different from international commerce. So here's another example: suppose I import a switchblade from the US to the UK.

Well, tough luck for me if Customs confiscate it, or it slips through but the police catch me with it. But will they go after the supplier in the US...?

That's why some of us are perplexed about why GOG, which has no German or Australian legal presence, should be (criminally?) liable under German or Australian censorship law. Australia isn't even part of the EU.
Posted February 26, 2015
Maybe there's also pressure from publishers?
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionGOG and censorship(255 posts)(255 posts)
(255 posts)