Not strictly true, as you gain new abilities with each successive badge you acquired. In the first game, badges even gave stat boosts to your pokemon.

With that said, there was an antipiracy measure in one game in the series that prevented pokemon from gaining XP. It was cracked (obviously) but a lot of people took it as a challenge...

Well, I think there are a few games where your character's stats are entirely equipment based, but I can't recall their names.

There's this recent definition: From here: https://www.gog.com/forum/general/games_that_disappointed_you_the_most/post125

Which to me sounds not at all like an RPG (dtgreene has previously stated a dislike of - or little appreciation for - stories in games), and more like turn-based tactics in a fantasy wrapper.

So, what turn-based tactical fantasy games don't have character growth? No idea. Er, maybe Warlords.

The thing is, while dtgreene seems downright obsessed with RPGs, she doesn't actually care at all about roleplaying or anything connected with it, like characters, story and storytellign etc, just about weird minutiae of game mechanics, and usually her threads are just about listing games that meat some criteria she came up with. Which doesn't really make for a riveting conversation, at least not the 100th time around.

Nothing wrong with TBT games, but if we're going to call them RPGs, shouldn't there actually be some, ya know, "role playing"? It seems like an iffy definition/synonym of/to RPG when there's little desire for a story and little desire for choices beyond those that affect the combat sequences - which leaves no particular space to play a role.

Anyway, Warlords (not Battlecry) is the only one that comes to mind, and I don't recall that game (from 20-year old dusty memories) having individual characters - they were just units.

Though, to be fair, she also plays real-time stuff like the Elder Scrolls games. In that case, I'd throw in Stalker as another example - as mentioned previously by another poster.

This topic is slightly different.

In the old topic that you linked to, I was asking about games that would be classified as RPGs, but which lack that particular element.

In this topic, I am asking about games (not necessarily RPGs!) that happen to share some elements usually associated (or that you associate) with the RPG genre, but which don't have character growth.

Gargoyle's Quest could be one example: It has an overworld, towns, random encounters, menus for talking to people in town, but the only growth it has is from plot events. Also, the battles play like 2d-platformer, and (unlike, say, games like Star Ocean) the dungeons are just 2d platforming levels (no overhead view or encounters in dungeons).

I could compare Gargoyle's Quest to Zelda 2, except that Zelda 2 actually *has* levels and experience points, making it inelegible for this topic.

(For the curious, Gargoyle's Quest 2 is similar to the original in this respect, except that there are no random encounters on the world map.)

Interestingly enough, SaGa 2 does this for one of the playable races (robot), and you can form a party of all robots if you want. (The manual advises against this, but as a child I was able to make it to the final boss with this party.)

SaGa Frontier also does this, but you can't avoid having non-robots in your party at some point, even if you play as T260 (Gen joins early in the game).

Crud, isn't there a fairly recent release on gOg where you don't have to level-up if you don't feel like it, and can - theoretically - complete the game at Level 1? Maybe someone already mentioned it.

In that case, maybe Gauntlet? I might be mistaken, but I think the characters just get better gear and don't level up?

Or Unrest, which outwardly looks like an RPG (character traits, quest-like tasks, choice and consequences etc.), but is actually more of an adventure or story-telling experience.

I think the "constant more awesome" aspect of level-ups are the cheapest aspects of RPGs. But I also think it is one of the most established parts of the genre. Something which would be pretty cool would be if the character instead of leveling up were leveling sideways. What I mean is that he loses some abilities, but gains others: He starts as a wizard, but due to a curse, he loses his magic abilities. With free time on his hand, he may learn new skills, like lockpicking, hacking or dating. And then the curse causes him to grow a new head, or something, which opens up for new skills, but now his left hand has withered and died. This could keep the "character growth" intact, without it feeling cheap.

I had an idea once for an RPG that was a little like that. The main character would be an assassin cursed with a power that had him absorb the memories and skills of anyone he kills, but the "space" in his head would be limited. So every kill would mean losing some of his skills but gaining new ones. So if you want to prepare for a tough fight, go and assassinate a skilled warrior in his sleep and bam! you're a fighter. Wounded? Stab a healer. Shit, now you can't fight anymore. Better slice that archer's throat and grab a longbow! The same would go for his knowledge, he would forget some things but know other stuff, closing some and opening other dialogue option. It was also to be the impetous for the story, since the result of the curse was his own identity being slowly eroded by all the ones he absorbs.

One serious flaw in this example: wizards are the computer geeks of the fantasy realm, and there's no way in hell they're going to learn how to date. ; )



But yeah, both your idea and Breja's sound quite interesting.

Sounds a lot like the system in most main series Kirby games; swallow an enemy and get its power, but you can only have one power at a time, so you need to give it up if you want another.

There's a few games where you can possess enemies, such as Little Nemo: The Dream Master (NES) and Super Mario Odyssey (Nintendo Switch), allowing you to take control of them, getting their abilities. Of course, you will eventually want to stop posessing them and return to your normal form. (There's a Game Boy game I saw a video game which had a similar possession mechanic, though in that one, you could not do much if anything in your "normal" form, if you even had one.)

(Note that none of the games mentioned her are RPGs, even under more liberal definitions of the term.)

Sometimes, when designing a game, it can be worth looking at other genres for ideas. It's a good reason why a game designer should play, or at least study, many different types of games, not just the genres they're interested in.

(Also, occurred to me: The monster transformation system in SaGa 1/2 and SaGa Frontier is something along these lines, but you do end up much stronger later on than earlier on; it's just not a steady progression, as sometimes eating meat makes you weaker.)

When browsing itch.io I discovered this possession-based roguelike: MidBoss

My first guess is - games with RPG-progression tied to something other than characters. Most online FPS, Team Fortress 2, for example, have clear progression with unlocking items for your characters and access to some types of play. But character themselves don't change.