I'm special!!! (no this is not a soft-claim of a PR, that doesn't mean I do or don't have a PR, but this is not a soft-claim either way.)

So, IF cristi is scum, THEN:

lurk lurk lurk

and [url=https://www.gog.com/forum/general/forum_mafia_game_40_wilderberry_hollow/post124]this are her only 2 posts in 124 posts aside from an RVS vote on dess, and could be easy spots to chime in as seeming to be helpful town, and of course, if a4plz is her scum-buddy, then she's resolidified to a noob partner that these should be the positions held/displayed as to not tip the hand as scum.

lurk lurk , a few totally townie things here and there between, lurk lurk

Here she shows that she didn't read the rules thoroughly. OMG SCUM!

LURKING EXCUSES - omg scum!

Here SHE expresses her position on the "needing to confirm" what flips are like, just so we know! And possibly tells her scum-buddy trent that what he did could look off. Totes scum tells galore, I tell ya!

Here she posits that my wagon is going to be USELESS with only 5 people on it and a no-lynch. ABSOLUTELY USELESS. She must be scum. My wagon is BIG BEAUTIFUL GOLDEN NUGGETS OF VALUE!!!

OBVIOUSLY distancing herself from her scum-buddies. If there are 4 Evil, that is the team (cristi, trent, HSL, and a4plz), hands down, no doubt, game over, you might as well all give up!

Here is relevant to today, obviously they all want him dead because of these reasons. DON'T KILL MY SCUMZBUDDY NOOOO NOT HIJACK~!!

She accepts trent's reasoning?! TRENTS!?!?! nooooo!!! scumszzzzsszzzz!!!

https://www.gog.com/forum/general/forum_mafia_game_40_wilderberry_hollow/post407]more obvi-scum lies[/url!!!

She votes me!!!! *cries so hard from the horrible memories of cristi trying to kill him* YOU SCUMMY SCUM SCUM!!!

Seriously though, cristi seems pretty town to me but she's good scum player I've noticed sooo, no discounting the absolute truth that she must in fact without a doubt be scum. Yep!

HEY, I got it done! YAYYY. I know you all want to read more! (thank wyrm!)

Trent is kind, trent is GOOD, read, , , , (my love note to trent):

He votes JMich, obviously rooting out the evilest of us all right from the get-go. Trent is gold, right on target, remove the horrible human person (love you JMich!) So much so that he doesn't remove it until post 224. where he VOTES HIJACK (my scumzbuddy, remember? trent is Good, he *knows* HijacK is scum and the case he makes is so convincing he VOTES HIM!! Trent is GOOD!) Are we out of RVS yet at that point? *sarcasm* (gee that was made SO EASY for me to see just by looking at my mess of a confusing votecount method which at a single glance allows me to see exactly which post trent removed his vote from JMich, which I scrolled right down to using adaliabooks user search trentonlf. BBOOM there it is!)

thanks adaliabooks!

onward! (are you having fun yet?)

Trentwants to know more details of the game mechanics, or is he just thirsty for some death? Obviously Trent is Good, looking for such useful information for us all!

VERY HELPFUL Good trent. (I loves you trent!)

States his no-lynch position as viable. Pro-town is that no-lynch! Good trent! (however, here, he does not make the exemption of explicitly EXCEPT DAY 1, ON DAY 1 WE HAVE TO KILL SOMEONE AND GET FLIP INFO!) Trent is kind, trent wants to kill on least on D1, but maybe viable on another day!

Just doing thegood ol' Good work. Kill kill kill someone anyone, just as long as they die! Kind trent!

PSST. Fellow Good, you are appearing good! Good for you! Obviously HSL and trent are both Good.

He's so nice! he tries ot help me re-calibrate my scumdar! Trent is good!

Good stuff right here. Obvi-good. So helpful, really, I think this is trent's best post all game.

so helpful! the quest of the source of the shitpickle continues!

onward with the quest!

Herehe helps point out how Evil HijacK must be for having an active college life. Straightens us all out on HijacK, really. Debauchery and scum, that is all Hijack is, obviously. Down with HijacK!

Let's see, what's next from trent, ahhh, yes, here's the next game-relevant and obviously Good move. I couldn't agree more! I should have voted for that guy trent is voting for there myself! That guy MUST be scum, trent is Good, trent has it figured! Wait, that's me...

Here he points out how I've been pushing no-lynch ALL DAY. Was I really? What do you think? Trent is Good, eh?! And obviously since I didn't help my wagon get to lynch, I must be scum. Thanks trent!

Here he's essentially done all the work and is ready to sit back and be done with the day. It's either a lynch of drealmer or HijacK, no ifs ands or butts, let's go! Kill one of them! What's that, 4 days into D1 and he's got it figured? WOWSA! Trent's so good!

Here he quotes someone who isn't even playing this game for how accurate their read is on HijacK's play. AMAZING! Thanks for your help kryps, you + trent = ultimate Good help find scum tactics ROCK ON! This game is in the bag if you just listen to trent, he is channeling Kryps! Talk about a POWER ROLE!

, trent made a [url=https://www.gog.com/forum/general/forum_mafia_game_40_wilderberry_hollow/post371]booboo. It's okay though, he's "all good." Disregarding it, yes, Good, kind trent, sir!

more helpful trying to fix my scumdar. I've got it all wrong, obviously. My scumdar is just off. This must be it. (seriously though folks, THIS COULD BE IT! I read trent scum all the frikken time when he's not. Still, I don't usually vote him, this game I'm going with it. I have no idea if I'm right or not. It's just how it goes. I hope you're scum trent, I really do, I'd hate to be wrong, really!)

Here he re-shares my entire quote of the confusing mess of a vote-count system, ya know, to be helpful and point out how much of a confusing mess of a vote-count system it is.

HEY IT'S ME! Just helping show how much of a distraction that mess of a vote-count system is, oh, and to note my re-reference to the eagles link I shared (omg I did a link in this game! I must be scum!) Did you see this post of mine, where I again, reference the eagles, I found it fucking HILARIOUS, no one even budged a smirk as far as I saw. It made me cry. but yes, instead of "getting over it" however, I'm doing as BOOKWYRM REQUESTED (that's why this post exists folks, because bookwyrm made a special request! otherwise I would have never thought to do such a wonderful work of art. Thanks for the inspiration, wrym!)

Hijack or Drealmer, HijacK or Drealmer - btw, you taking anything for that tunnel-vision, trent? I ask because I care.

Here he points out how obviously helpful and involved flubbucket has been. Thanks trent!

Hey my Good friend, HSL who is so obvi-good, HijacK's wagon isn't rolling, I'ma go with drealmer, what do you think we should do next *nudge nudge pushes drealmer nudge nudge* You know, because trent is kind and Good. Also, "no votes based on meta" for trent. In-game stuff only. Got it, grand advice, thanks!

he goes into great detail as to why I'm SO [url=https://www.gog.com/forum/general/forum_mafia_game_40_wilderberry_hollow/post420]obvi-scum-boyyyy. KILL DREALMER NOW! (or hijack!) I don't know how I wasn't convinced to vote myself! He doesn't say anything for the rest of the day, his case is made, he's obviously convinced everyone to vote me to lynch.

end D1 trent is Good read!

sincerely yours,
with all the love and sarcasm in the world (except for the parts where I was sincere, hence the sincerely),

drealmer7

PS - 4+2 = ? now THAT level of math isn't even childish, it's infantile! (ya know, because children can add 4+2, but a lot of infants can't - it's a joke. I'M BEING FUNNY!) (it's okay, HSL, we know you meant to press 5!)

so what's next?!

If the rest of you don't UCKUP and start playing, I'm going to beat you all into submission so hard, how hard, you ask? Exactly as hard as this song is. Yep!

No one is here so I'm going to DANCE AROUND NAKED BAHAHAHAHA!!!


You missed it! Aren't you glad?!

I agree with a lot of what adalia said in post #623.

First, I agree that Hyper, trent, and drealmer are all town and the back and forth is distracting. Town tunneling on town. Hyper seems to be playing hard for town. Trent's play was risky, but I also read him as town. I am least sure about drealmer because his ideas/actions are often the antithesis of what I consider pro-town play. And yet, I still think he's being sincere.

Dessimu/adalia and CSPVG both read town to me.

I also believe that scum has had no reason to actively participate so far or try to cause confusion or discord. I believe they are sitting back and waiting for us to take out one another. It's the running theme in my scum picks.

My top picks for scum are: (in order)
1. HijacK
2. babark
3. a4plz
4. JMich

Hijack is still barely engaging. I agree that he has been deflecting. His stated scum suspects both days are limited to those who have cast suspicion on him (CSPVG on day 1, Hyper and trent on day 2). It seems like he's trying to keep under the radar and not actively participate in scum hunting. He's reacting, not instigating. Reactive Hijack is not what I expect from him as town.

babark and a4plz are both lurking hard. Great way for scum to try to skate by. barbark is listed ahead of a4plz because his play feels more intentional in not drawing attention to himself. And while a4plz's play D1 set off all kinds of alarms, I'm leaning this more as a newbie who didn't realize what they were getting into. If she's scum, she's a very shrewd player.

@adalia - why do you think JMich is town? I don't see him scummy like Hyper does, but I haven't seen anything to convince me he's town. If anything, it feels like he's playing rather low key. That's what makes me suspicious. Other than the back-and-forth with Hyper, he hasn't really engaged anyone else D2.

The players I have not mentioned (flubb, lotsofchickenwings) have not pinged my scumdar. flubb has seemed town at times but he mixes it up so much its hard to tell.

Vote HijacK

@drealmer - you're a trip, I need to get some sleep, but I'll try to sift through your recent posts tomorrow

Both you and Wyrm have commented on spectres leaving the game. Now, Wyrm was a night kill, and most likely town, so there is always the possibility that he was the exorcist, thus knows how spectres work. Your comment though (not returning as a spectre) is a weird one, not by itself, but along with wyrm's comment.
If you are the exorcist, then how did Wyrm get said knowledge? If you are not the exorcist, then how did you get said knowledge?

So, again, you deflect and don't answer. And I still don't like this.

So, direct question again: Did you mean you won't return as a spectre because you'll say fuck it and leave, or due to a game mechanic?

A lot of wishy washy reads stuff, he feels much more like town JMich then scum JMich to me (more actually involved and asking questions, raising points as opposed to just seeming to. Similar to you really ;))

But this post is what puts him in the strongly leaning town group for me:

Basically suggesting we lynch one of our power roles (and put us 1/3 closer to losing the game). While you might say this is a scummy suggestion / plan (and I was a little surprised no one seemed to question him on it at all...) I can't actually see scum standing up so blatantly and suggesting it (even though he did do it in a dismissive way).

Besides that, I think as a plan it may actually have merit (of the game breaking kind) so again I can't see scum suggesting it.

So yeah, for me JMich is heavily leaning town at the moment, and will be unless he pulls some kind of unusual stunt that throws this read.

I have no idea what's going on or what I should do. This is just like real life!

---

Really, with this whole thing, I feel like I'm just splitting hairs with you. We read these things differently, I think you're being a bit dismissive of HijacK's point in regard to this, as I largely agree that it seems to me that Town Spectres are as likely to vote in an unhelpful manner as they are a helpful manner (as all Town players do at some point (not that all Spectres will be Town, etc.)), but I do think that he could have been a little bit better about how he conveyed the idea and ultimately think him quiet scummy.

Sorry about that, JMich. I messed up and must have put the incorrect post number in the quote tag. I was attempting to quote drealmer.

---

The One Where drealmer and CSPVG Have A Long Discussion Of No Interest To Anyone Else.

E09S6

Firstly, I love how you're already setting up a lean towards me being scum if I vote HijacK (someone that I have thought to be scummy for virtually the whole game).

1. I find it a little odd, yes; as we've seen though, he's not really saying that he likes no-lynching now, but more that under certain circumstances he'd consider it. He may also have been alright with it in other games that I'm not aware of, but I will concede that I have never played a game with trent in which he has advocated for and pursued a no-lynch (or cannot remember having been in a game where trent did this).

2 and 3. I thought that the gap could be significant in the construction of your argument, as it seemed to me to be a rather significant gap between posts. I thought you may have been cherry picking things, but having had a skim between the two posts, I can see that there is not much of interest there.

As for the no-lynch thing: as I said earlier, this has been a prevelant argument in GOG Forum Mafia, so it's not that strange to me that someone is calling you out for wanting to no-lynch.

Having said that, I'm not always against no-lynching but I can see why a lot of people think of it as scummy; voting for someone and achieving the majority is important because it's the only way that Town can kill scum (excluding Vig roles, etc.) and because it often gives us information we did not have. You know why people think it scummy, though, and I feel like you're playing at being a bit silly just the tiniest bit.

4. (Interior - Night)

LISA, a young woman with blonde hair, sits on a bed, staring out of her window at the cold expanse of night darkened water that stretches to the horizon before her. We can hear the sounds of waves crashing against rock. She has a phone to her ear, we it ring.

LISA: Come on, pick up the phone, Johnny. Come one.

She sighs. The phone continues to ring. Someone picks up.

JOHNNY, an older man in a dirty T-shirt, sits at a bar, leaning heavily against the counter before him.

JOHNNY: Mmmh - Hi!

LISA: Babe, babe, please tell me you're not getting drunk with Greg at The Boar again. We were supposed to go out tonight, but you never showed.

JOHNNY: I'm not getting drunk, darling. I'm just drinking a lot.

We can hear someone laugh. JOHNNY begins to giggle too.

LISA (sounding very tired): I'm just done, Johnny. This has gone on for years now, I'm -

JOHNNY: Yeah, that's cool, darling. I have to go, okay, Greg has just got us another round. Remember, drinking a lot, not drunk. I don't have to explain the distinction, I'm sure.

The phone cuts out. LISA sits on her bed staring down at the cellphone she has placed on her lap. She sighs and stares out at the ocean again.

(End Scene)

5. Again, I certainly thought that you were pushing no-lynch, even if you ended up voting for trenton. Me thinking that you weren't all that chuffed up flip info is a direct result of your advocacy of no-lynch.

6. It is clearer, yes.

7 and 8. I still see these things as largely innocuous in the grand scheme of things.

9. Lastly, I understand what you were trying to do with that post post a little more.

---

Also, I'm still getting a strange vibe from HijacK due to his absence and the fact that, when he is here, he mostly spends time responding directly to points about himself.

So, Vote: HijacK.

Not one.

I will admit that the lack of flips and other odds and ends of this game mean we need to be slightly more careful then my usual 'Slaughter everyone' approach, but not by much.

No, voting for yourself is bad and anti town (though I think there are probably circumstances where it would be acceptable)
And this is exactly the reason your behaviour is anti town. You want to stay in the game because you keep dying day 1, not for any pro town reason. That's not our fault, you get lynched because you behave in a way that appears (to everyone else) to be scummy. If getting lynched or killed off bothers you that much then don't play. This is not the game for you.
Defending yourself is fine, but you don't defend yourself, you attack everyone else. And in doing so create a bucket load of confusion that only helps to further scum's goals.



Here's my big problem. I'm about 98% sure HijacK is scum, but short of the coroner confirming that on his death (which I think we all agree no one wants to happen) I can't prove it. Without proving that I can't discount others as scum (for example if HijacK is scum I can't really see trent being scum too, throwing your buddy under the bus in that situation isn't really a great play).
And without being able to discount them as scum I don't really see any other option then lynching drealmer, trent and probably Hyper too because there's a reasonable chance any of them could be scum (I would put it in the range of 20 - 35% for me).
That's the problem with both No Lynch (and wagons that fall apart and don't roll) and these huge blow ups. The data is now muddied by (what I see as) probable town vs town fights. If drealmer had been lynched day 1 that would have removed one source of contention and allowed focus to shift to other things.
As it is there is too much suspicion of him (and no reason to give him a pass) to just let him survive the rest of the game. He will have be lynched at some point, it's almost a guarantee, and scum aren't really all that likely to NK him given what a juicy target he is.
And the same goes for trent now too.
I don't think Hyper has painted himself in quite as bad a light as the other two, but again I don't really see him being NK'd either.

Good news! You won't be the NK!

*squint* This...doesn't feel like town JMich.

That's exactly why I'm asking it. If it is indeed a "fuck it", then that's enough for me to drop it. But HSL does not deny having extra information, and I am currently more inclined to believe you than him. So where did the extra information both you and HSL seem to have come from?

You can always explain where you got your piece of information from, which could remove HSL from the spotlight. Or shine it ever brighter, depending on your answer.

Pre-post edit: Did you mean "town JMich" or "town, JMich"? I am replying as if you are telling me that my line of questioning doesn't seem like a townie one, not that I don't feel like a townie. Feel free to correct me.

I read HSL as saying "if we are 99% Sure that Worym is Town, then the exorcist - if still alive - would no way in their right mind remove Worym's spectre. Thus, if I die - I'm not coming back as a spectre- the exorcist is going to remove my candy spectre a** right quick "

I don't think it's off- base nor is it not the thought running through everyone's mind.

I know how I initially interpreted his remark. I also know why I know what I know (woo! I know things!).

I'll offer you the option, though: would you like to wait for an answer from HSL before I give mine (to try and avoid me tainting his answer), or shall I go ahead and tell you?

The question, and the thought process needed to bring it up, doesn't feel like something I'd expect from you if you are town aligned.