At this point, you seem to be grasping at excuses.

Let's analyze your posts today...

Post #473: Starts asking if Scum targeted RFG N1 and follows with the assumption Dedo must have hit scum with a Jail and finishes with RFG's target must have been protected so Dedo jailed Scum N2. Both pushing the idea that the person jailed is the scum...even though what did or didn't happen on N1 had nothing to do with whether Scum was jailed or targeted.

Absolutely no consideration given to the possibility that the jailed might be the target. When I see someone thoroughly analyze N1 and N2 kills, yet completely miss this option, it makes me question how serious they are taking this analysis and are merely going through the motions.

Post #479: Again, rehashing. Brings up that RFGs kill might have been blocked by an unknown protective role. But when discussing N2 seems to pass it off as the only possibilities are that Dedo blocked scum or this other role blocked the kill. Again, a post supposedly given a lot of thought that neglects this obvious possibility.

Post #495: When it's brought up Agent defects and tries to pretend he covered that possibility telling us to note the phrase "inclined to vote" meant he had already thought of that...does anyone believe that? Also note how Agent is suspecting Pooka and Blotunga and passing shade on Dedo for delaying...this is important...

Post #520: Responds to finding out I was blocked. Asks Joe if he has a role but votes me claiming "I haven't read him as Town, so I'm liking the chances he's Scum". What happened to Pooka and Blotunga being scummy? Or starting to worry about Dedo for delaying? But suddenly, for no reason after I'm blocked, oh yeah, he's scummy and the best lead. Who isn't scummy Agent?

Post #539: Full of deflection.

Post #555: Where he claims he only has 15 minutes a day and being on mobile as an excuse for weak analysis, yet insisting his vote was "calculated with firm reason" like mine on him. So who thinks 15 minutes a day makes sense with what Agent posted in #473 and #479. Also pushes for a mass claim saying his role gets even stronger with it which I'm having a hard time understanding how...

Post #558: Doubles down on "best lead"

Post #567: Plays to emotion claiming "bad tactics to ignore me" and pretending as if I'm trying to push this to the deadline for the claim.

Post #569: Nothing important.

Here's what it looks like to me. He knows I was targeted for the kill last night. This is why he distinctly avoided naming me at all in any discussion of who might be Dedo's target or not. Then all of a sudden, when my name is revealed, I've been scummy to him the entire time. Rather funny when it's the first time I came up all day and he was dissing on Pooka and Blotunga and even throwing shade of Dedo. Sure makes me wonder if that means the scum team is him and Lift or possibly Joe. Unless it's Pooka or Blotunga and he was setting up an early bus. So that doesn't help. I'll have to think about that more.

I'm very happy where my vote is. His actions don't make sense to me as Town. I think he's pushing for a mass claim to help his team in the event he gets lynched because I don't really see how his claim "gets stronger with a mass claim". Doesn't compute.

Do we even have an announced Deadline right now with Thanksgiving weekend going on? If enough people find him suspicious, I suggest we push the point and force a claim. If by some miracle what he has to say makes a mass claim "much stronger" we can address that then. For now, I think any Town PRs should remain under wraps as much as possible unless there is information that begs to be revealed for our benefit.

Well, finally I can write from a computer and not anymore in my car from my mobile phone.

1. So, you're smarter than scum is/are? And by that distinction, you can't be scum? ;-)

2. I think no one said that ONLY scum can be vanilla. That would be ridiculous, since the very fist flip in this game was a vanilla Bobby Singer (GR)

3. If we do a full claim, RW should also clarify what he was trying to do when he was blocked (if anything) and whom he was trying to target.


4. And an even riskier proposition if he is Scum. ... Sure, we can also just ask Agent to claim and keep the rest of potential PRs hidden. Agent has exposed himself anyhow, if he is Town.

5. Usually I do exactly that, but not when I'm on my phone.

6. Still unlikely. A third killing role, even 1-shot, would mean a potential for 3 kills in one Night. Plus one Lynch. That would be 4 deaths in one Day-Night cycle in a 10-player game. Not likely that any mod would risk that.


That is quite the opposite of what I said. I didn't say that you said there's only one scum left. On the contrary: you seem to be awfully sure that there are two scum left. And you still haven't explained why. ... Now, did you really misunderstand my observation "you seem to be sure that there are two scum left"? Or did you intentionally reply as if I had said the opposite?

However, I do agree with you on your point 3. Waiting for the last moment with a claim would not be in Towns best interest. We want to have time to discuss your claim and you already revealed that you do have a PR. So if you are Town, you have a big target on your back anyhow. Waiting until L-1 (and probably much closer to the deadline) leaves us much less time to react. So yes, this proposition by RW was scummy! So claim as soon as you're ready to.


This is an interesting observation if it is true. I'll have to check whether agent really didn't mention you at all as possible dedo-target before dedo revealed it.

Other points read well too. What irks me most with Agent is the discrepancy between the little time he claims to have and the claim that he thought out everything carefully. Which is a contradiction. Plus, in spite of 'careful thinkin', he 'misses' quite obvious possibilities.



@all: the way it looks to me right now we have today the choice between lynching RW and lynching Agent. Sure there were some things off with both Joe and Pooka - but both also have provided Towny feeling input. Blotunga is even more invisible that RW ever was. But right now, the conflict between RW and agent seems to be the focus and I feel quite sure that one of them is scum. RW is possible scum by the fact that he was jailed and the NK didn't occur. Him being scum is one of two likely explanations for that. (plus a few less likely ones) So the chance of hitting scum with him is higher than average, merely by the connection between him and the failed NK. If RW is scum, we can also be sure that there is another scum, because RW can only be scum if he's part of a team.

Agent, however, is scummy on his own merit. He has collected some omissions and contradictions and the feeling of pursuing the agenda of getting RW lynched no matter what. He refuses to see anything that might contradict his RW=scum conviction. This can be a Townie tunneling very hard. But it feels more like scum who just tries too hard and overplayed his hand. Agent could be scum no matter whether there is only one scum left or whether there are two.

But I do feel quite sure that they aren't scum together. I think Agent wouldn't push that strongly on RW if they were both scum, since Agent's push goes beyond distancing. He apparently really wants RW to be lynched. Sure, he could be bussing. But it doesn't feel like it. It is still possible that both are Town. But again, RW is either scum or was the NK-target and if it is the latter, agent sure seems to be intent on finishing the job. That doesn't feel like Town-on-Town violence.

But let's see what Agent reveals. Perhaps his claim will offer some new insights that make him Townier (and/or RW less so).

Show me where I ever said to wait until the last moment to push Agent to L-1. First, we didn't even have a deadline when I posted that but you will notice Agent complaining about me trying to push everything to this non-existent deadline. Second, my suggestion was for one more person to at least officially announce they would be voting for him, so he's effectively at L-1 and would be forced to reveal this seemingly important and game-breaking information that Agent has not yet revealed for reasons I don't understand. Get the information out now, so it can be evaluated and discussed.

If anyone is delaying here, it is Agent who should have already revealed it if it's so important. As it stands, he's either a lynch target, or if he really is Town, a likely NK target by revealing a PR. So why is he holding out?

I don't like mass claims. I don't see why one is so necessary now, we are up at least 5-2. But if the information Agent provides shows a mass claim as necessary, we can decide that after we hear from him. I'm just having a very hard time seeing how his claim could possibly be enhanced with everyone claiming. It's another one of those weird statements that Agent has posted today that feels scummy to me, as if he's hoping to draw out our PRs.

I'd uhh, need to know what's wrong so I can clarify it.

I don't think that's a reason why you should keep buying time. If you're going to claim, we need all the time in the world to assess it, and 18 hours later (not the average 8 hours of sleep; 18 hours of downtime without an IRL reason) is suspect.

Who did he name in discussion of who might be Dedo's target?

It certainly seems that way. I don't think my super high intelligence would have made a bearing on the scum draw for the game though. (Did I mention my good looks? Dedo's been slacking a little so it's not come up in a while)

Ha. oh yeah. I forgot about that guy. Dedo's wild theory was that only town have roles, and the one-shot role cop functioned as an alignment cop but didn't know how to make sense of their data.

Yes, it only occurred to me since I made the long post that RW never claimed 'one-shot role cop' but just said he had a 'one-shot role cop ability' so him trying to act at night wouldn't be such a contradiction as I thought.

I don't like RW's mechanics-focused early Day today, and I don't like his aggressiveness Carr-fixation, which I think is quite extreme tunneling, but I've started to go off the idea that he's scum. Especially with:

Lift saying "we're lynching RW or Agent." Makes me think it's a bad idea.

I'm currently of the opinion that our remaining scum is among the ones who haven't yet offered up information on their roles (which, in fairness, should really count me as the information I gave was forced) but I do think it's blotunga, pooka or lifthrasil. Ugh.

Mechanically it's as possible as any other that blotunga/pooka are a scumteam, but I instinctively pull against the idea as they both have playstyles which are generally scum-read anyway.


There is the possibility that the other scum is alone, but I don't like it. Thinking about it...

Again 'Kitsune' used as plural and a reference to 'those creatures'. Not concrete but I'm pretty sure we should discount the one--man mafia theory.

Ugh.

Of RW and Carr I'm drawn more toward RW as scum. Lifthrasil sees good in his arguments, but I don't see much other than aggression and wilful misreading (I already pointed out how Carr has taken into account the chance that the scums' target is protected, but he continues to insist he didn't). I think RW has a boatload of OMLB Carr Sucks, and that it's not necessarily alignment specific...

but still...


UGHH...

Dedo
Joe
blotunga
lifthrasil
pooka
RW
Carr

These are my options.

It's not Dedo because he's perfect and can do no wrong. (Also the early claim today is difficult to believe came from scum)
It's not Joe because I have PRIVILEDGED INFORMATION
It's not blotunga for no reason - it could well be blotunga.
It's not lifthrasil because lifthrasil sounds sensible and has the guts to say "let's narrow down the lynch pool to these two" but maybe he thinks he can get away with it.
It's not pooka because seems to be scumhunting in a typically pooka way.
It's not RW because he's too aggressive with this Carr-fixation and I kinda like this not-wanting-to-full-claim now I see it in a possibly town light but actually maybe I do hate it still after all...
It's not Carr because I think he's talking sense and the role-seeding and eagerness to claim feels right.


Right. I'm most drawn to Lift and RW being the scumteam.

Vote Lifthrasil

Hello!

I did and I entirely forgot about this! That's that then.


How does revealing all information help with the target Agent already has on his back exactly? At best it will redirect the NK to someone else who may have a more valuable power to dispose of. At worst the scum will get a confirmation that it is indeed a good target and they will just go through with it. Now that I think of it I'm not sure which one is the worse outcome after all, they both suck if Agent is Town. My point is that your argument in support of wanting Agent to claim doesn't make sense when you think about it. There are probably better reasons that would have served as good arguments but the one you used feels like just putting something together for the sake of having any argument.
Last but not least, I'm not a fan of how you insist on Agent's claim after you refused to do yours when you were supposed to. Talk about contradictions.


It's just unwise to assume one scum until there is good reason to make that assumption. The flavor you mentioned here backs that up even more.

Oh you! Right back at you!

Why not Lift instead of RW. If you think they are the likeliest possibilities wouldn't RW be more likely because of the information we have about him?


The only thing that is making me hold back on Agent is how he doesn't seem to budge. That just doesn't look like a good play as scum. Unless he overplayed it, it backfired unexpectedly and now he can't afford to fold as he went too far already to go back. On the other hand, as that handsome devil Joe points out, RW has become fixated on Agent in a similar way. The key difference is that RW has an excuse to do it and which would be ideal for scum RW vs Town Agent.

At this point it has become a necessity for Agent to come out and the sooner the better so we have time to try and do something with that information. I'm not a fan of the mass claim but if Agent's reveal calls for it we'll hopefully have enough time to discuss it and decide how to proceed with it.

While I don't have time to re-read everything, last time agent was scum he was quite unwilling to give up any info. But could be wifom and he's actually some super duper PR.

What makes me uneasy about RWs claim is how easy we shrugged it off. Who would NK RW and why, I wish I had time to go back to re-read d1 and d2 interactions. Most likely those who haven't interacted much with him would also NK him. But if we believe RW, agent is a likely candidate.

So cards up agent.
vote agent

It's the weekend vote count


Being Voted ------------------------------------------------Voted by
RWarehall---------------------------------------------------Agent (Post 519)
agent---------------------------------------------------------RWarehall (post 522), Lift (post 542), blotunga (Post 577)
Lift------------------------------------------------------------Joe (Post 575)


Closest to lynch is agent at L-1

Let's be clear...I don't "know" anything. I'm guessing from what I see just like everyone else.

What I've noted were some obvious contradictions...

1) Agent completely seems to exclude the idea that I could have been the target. Yes, he mentioned it once AFTER BEING CALLED ON IT! The then goes on with the same analysis shrugging it off...

2) On top of getting facts wrong and giving the wrong people credit, like the "revelation" that Role Cop is often a scum role which incidentally originated from ME, not Lift...but I guess I'm so scummy that I tried to slip it all by you guys but stating it outright...

Which leads to...

3) Where he's scum reading Pooka and Blotunga after hearing about the "protection" with a little side of Joe. Not once am I brought up as scummy at all. Until, Dedo reveals it and now I'm so scummy, he's completely fine with it. Who didn't he think was scummy? Just Dedo, maybe Lift too, that's it?

4) All this deep analysis, yet when pressed on the completeness of it, he says he's had only 15 minutes a day. We've all been busy at times before. How many of you have decided to just push a case and start a big vote when you are too busy to really go over everything? It doesn't make sense.

5) These shenanigans about his role and its importance. If its so important and game-breaking that we all should mass claim to put the fail nail in the coffin of scum, why hasn't he revealed this great revelation?

6) Somehow accusing me of trying to push everything to the Deadline. He takes a line where I said I don't think people should reveal unless pushed to do so OR if they have information that they feel Town needs to know about.

Look, I'm hoping for extremely useful information too, but I'm getting the impression he felt cornered and is trying to make the most out of it tricking us into a full reveal. I'm not "tunneling", it's just that Agent especially today has said a enough questionable things he's crossed my line of probably scum, so I've made my case. If this information he has is so important Agent, and you were going to reveal it anyway, where is it? If it's not that important, how does it get so very strong if everyone reveals a day or hopefully more early? I don't get it...

It doesn't mean I'm not watching everyone else. Like Lift who is coming off to me as maybe "overly friendly" and I'm beginning to wonder if he's going through the motions of his analysis. The flip to that is Joe who just came out of the blue with a Lift vote and seems a little overly defensive of Agent. Blotunga always feels a little off. Pooka I generally read as scum-hunting but at times I have doubts if he's just going through the motions.

We need Agent to reveal so we can move along. These delays are on you...and Blotunga just put you at L-1...

OK, I'm really starting to get annoyed at the implication that I'm faking RL reasons for things. That's bad sportsmanship.

Your assumptions are incorrect. I do my best to be precise with my language. When writing that post, I literally wrote "will vote", then went back and changed it to "inclined to vote" because it wasn't a sure thing.

Bolded part is nonsense.

1. If only having limited time a day means that I get lynched for "weak analysis", I'm going to have to stop playing forum mafia.

2. I did not suggest a mass claim. I said that I was happy to claim and that my role might get stronger with a mass claim.

"Plays to emotion". Pot calling the kettle black much?

OK, on rereading I misinterpreted your statement about my last words as referring to the deadline as opposed to L-1. Retracted.

So... if I'm Scum, I'm Scum!

Untrue. I said that I hadn't read you as Town, so I'm willing to lynch you. If you look to my earlier reads, you'll find I didn't assign you an alignment.

I...

Wow. You're right, it is. My apologies. I don't know what I was thinking that I read it upside-down.

I think it highly probable that there are two scum left, as one scum + SK seems unbalanced. Even if there is only one scum left, I feel that RW is our best lynch.

Can confirm that I didn't mention RW at all as possible dedo-target. I didn't mention anyone as possible dedo-target, because I didn't speculate out loud about dedo's target.

Thank you.


----


@everyone - I think the information revealed by my claim has been greatly exaggerated. My initial observation was that I had a small amount of information regarding weirdness in the setup. I'm not an investigative role at all, I'm a protective role.

CLAIM:

I'm an angel. A bodyguard in mafia parlance. I can protect someone for a night at the cost of my own life if that person is targeted with the NK.

Let me quote my own breadcrumbs:

-----


On Night 1, I protected Lifthrasil because of his "softclaim" and the fact that he seemed solidly Town. On Night 2, I protected dedo as he seemed almost certainly Town and I figured it was more important he saw Day 3 than I did.

It's pretty obvious why my role gets stronger with a mass claim. I know who to protect and scum is basically forced to target me with the NK, giving PRs more nights to work in.

Regarding the information about the weirdness of the setup. As an angel, I was unable to protect the cop (as he was macho), it's rather useless protecting one-shot roles, and our only other revealed Town have been vanilla. It's making me feel a wee bit useless.

Ummm...

So you wanted us to agree to a mass claim so your power could maybe be better targeted? And what if scum has a Strongman? And regardless, we still lose a Town... So in essence you were asking us to mass claim for the sole purpose of mass claiming and attempting to break the mechanics of the game?

The breadcrumb looks legit..but could it have been planned from the beginning...

And we have no idea what happened with RFG's kill...
As a fan of Supernatural, death doesn't actually use his/her Scythe per se but sort of takes one's spiritual essence in a way. So maybe the cause of death cannot be detected. Man, I was hoping for so much more, like the answer to RFG's kill and who he targeted...

As to your participation, you were the one who brought it up in defence of your analysis missing things. Prior to that, I didn't notice any unusual inactivity, so don't blame me for that. You can't expect to use it to defend yourself then cry foul when people try to analyze it...

Unvote Agent

I need to think about this more more someone "accidentally" drops a killing blow.

Please quote me requesting a mass claim.

Ah yes. Without knowing anything about any of the Town roles in the game, I locked myself into being an angel from the beginning of the game. Well played, agent, well played.

Because Bodyguard or Angel is such a common role you'd have to worry so much about a counterclaim...just saying...

It seems it was Joe who started the whole early mass claim idea.

unvote agent

How come I never pick up on breadcrumbing? Anyway I believe agent, likely he's our Castiel if nobody counterclaims (i know name claiming is forbidden), but knowing the show it's logical.

So let's sum it up:
Agent - very likely town
Dedo - feels town
RW - feels town but the lack of NK does cast a slight doubt
Lift - while feels like usual hard to read sometimes
Joe - I still haven't forgotten the Joe/Lift d1, early distancing?
Pooka - nothing definite but the whole game I had weird vibes.

Do we continue claiming?
Anyway at this moment I think I'd go with one of my last three listed.

I just read the bodyguard description on the wiki, and I think we likely can rule out a doctor. I wonder if lift is right and we have just one more scum. Or could we have like a scum/lover combo?