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General discussionForum Mafia #52 - SHODAN's children(1308 posts)(1308 posts)
(1308 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted October 21, 2017
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Hunter65536: Yet you are not voting for adalia, got curious since you said you'd push for his lynch. Not casting shade or suspicion, just felt weird to me.
EBWOP
Also if you look at vote tally you'd see flub is not the obvious choice. Although I'd like to know if you meant obvious choice to you or others when you said that. If it is the former then ignore my previous post.
Posted October 21, 2017
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dedoporno: I see a few people who have expressed their dislike in what we're currently doing and would like something else to be happening instead (the desired alternative is mostly coming down to scumhunting and finding a better, proper lynch). Sage, Trent and Leonard, if you want things to start happening differently I suggest to do something about rather than just talking about it. If you don't want waters muddied and achieve a proper lynch start suggesting who that lynch should be.
Have you seen my posts about books? I have pointed out what I find off and I have my vote on him.

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ZFR: Question to the more experienced players here:
_Is flub intelligent enough to pull off this being his plan all along. Act suicidal to claim you're a vanilla townie while in reality you're scum that will avoid getting lynched this way?
_Is flub intelligent enough to pull off this being his plan: act suicidal to claim you're a vanilla townie while in reality you're hacker so that scum try and convert you?
Yes, Flub is very smart and plays the game how he feels is needed. IMO
Yes, same.

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flubbucket: Know this......I am always town.

The plan this Day is to lynch me. My actions are not suicidal. I am not Voting myself. I am merely making the best tactical move for town on Day One in this setup. There is no investigative role with which to suss out scum. There is the ongoing banter.....but that is the stuff of which Day One Hatred is made of is it not??

I am a tactical player, but more importantly I play this game for fun. I'm an old dungeon master from the '70s so I have a focus on making sure everyone has a good time. Some players like to solve the puzzle, some like the struggle and the fight, some like to move forward as quickly as possible, and some like to look into every single corner.

Regarding scummy players........I will say I find some of the reasons for and against voting me to be dubious.

However, not voting to lynch me this Day is scummy.
Unless your scum? You sir are not always town. You know some people love to lynch lairs.


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mchack: I'm sure we'll wait for you before any lynch happens.
Also don't you dare blaming me for having to go into stuff you don't want to explain. If don't wanna explain it then don't!
if you don't wanna look like you're asking for recruitment by mentioning super secret knowledge, then don't mention it.

your actions are your own doing, no-one is making you do any of it.
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adaliabooks: No, I really don't want to explain it. But I will because at this point it is probably the townie thing to do so that we do the right thing today.
I may not get time to fill in all the blanks until later but here is the gist of it.

Town is almost guaranteed a win if we can get the three masons through till tomorrow. Particularly if three vanilla townies are dead. I've outlined the numbers on that already.

So our goal today is not to lynch a mason or force one to claim.
So what will scum do if they reach L-1?
Claim mason.
And what will we do?
Stop the lynch.

So unless someone does something absolutely ridiculously scummy today that makes us certain they could not possibly be a mason we will never lynch scum today.
We will only ever lynch vanilla town.

Hence we should do so as quickly as possible so scum don't get any more clues or ideas then they already have who might be a mason to shoot in the night.



ZFR almost had it right when he suggested no lynch, but the better result for town tomorrow is to have less vanillas floating about muddying the water.

So please vote flub. He's a smart cookie and he knows what he is doing.
You seem very sure what scum would do is down to almost being lynched.
Well I do find you scummy as hell, your logic on making sure the mason go to tomorrow is spot on.

I just really dont feel flub is scum. Why would we not try to lynch scum today and just give in to lynching town? And the comment on getting rid of vanillas is eye brow raising and how are you do sure that scum would take out a vanilla townie over night?

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adaliabooks: So let me ask you a question. How many masons (real or otherwise) are we going to push to claim before we do lynch a vanilla townie?
None because the masons should be smart enough not to claim at all even if down to the lynch. Do not give scum anything at all is the smartest move. IMO

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Sage103082: Can we please stop giving scum ideas on what to do over the night?
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HypersomniacLive: Is there more coming from you?
Yes. Don't eat yellow snow. And not voting and just letting everyone else vote isnt town either.



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trentonlf: Yeah pretty sure now that you’re scum, and if flub wasn’t the obvious choice I would push for your lynch.
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Hunter65536: Yet you are not voting for adalia, got curious since you said you'd push for his lynch. Not casting shade or suspicion, just felt weird to me.
Feels a little weird someone mentions you have been quiet and then your back commenting on someone who is voting and you are not. Same as hyper. Scum has the option to let town lynch themselves and just watch.
Posted October 21, 2017
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Sage103082: Feels a little weird someone (bler? trent?) mentions you have been quiet and then your back commenting on someone(bler? trent?) who is voting and you are not. Same as hyper. Scum has the option to let town lynch themselves and just watch.
So you think adalia is town? Whom do you see being scum then? Also I've not said I'd be leading a lynch on anyone till now which is a strong statement to make IMO.
Posted October 21, 2017
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trentonlf: Before any lynch happens we need to hear from all the quiet players. Hunter, dedo, Leonard, Krypsyn, Sage, and bookwyrm. But I guess you want a rushed lynch for some reason?
Cute. Especially since you're the one that used the term "push" in the first place. If I had even a remote interest in a rushed lynch, why didn't I take advantage of flubbucket's wagon when he had 5 votes?

My question was what is stopping you from pursuing the lynch of a player you're pretty sure is scum, more so that of one that has a viable wagon on them. Case in point adaliabooks, whom you stated to be pretty sure is scum, and who at the time of your post was at L-3, and at L-2 at the time of my question to you.



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Sage103082: [...] Yes. Don't eat yellow snow. And not voting and just letting everyone else vote isnt town either. [...]
I won't even dignify the first bit with a comment. And you placing a vote when you (finally) showed up automatically makes you town, eh?


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Sage103082: [...] commenting on someone who is voting and you are not. Same as hyper. [...]
Forgive me, I was not aware that only those with a placed vote are entitled to comment on others with a placed vote.


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Sage103082: [...] Scum has the option to let town lynch themselves and just watch.
Didn't you just say you find adaliabooks scummy as hell?
Posted October 21, 2017
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Hunter65536: Yet you are not voting for adalia, got curious since you said you'd push for his lynch. Not casting shade or suspicion, just felt weird to me.
As I said to Hyper: "Before any lynch happens we need to hear from all the quiet players. Hunter, dedo, Leonard, Krypsyn, Sage, and bookwyrm. But I guess you want a rushed lynch for some reason?"

So why would I put adalia at L-1.

And as I said to mchack: : "I did not take into consideration that both scum teams could try to convert flub at the same time or that both scum teams might target other players for the NK. So now more so than before I will not be voting flub and don’t think he is the necessary lynch today."
Posted October 21, 2017
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adaliabooks: And Bookwyrm and dedo seem a bit quiet too...
I'm here now and reading. I had a day out with my family.
Posted October 21, 2017
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Sage103082: Feels a little weird someone (bler? trent?) mentions you have been quiet and then your back commenting on someone(bler? trent?) who is voting and you are not. Same as hyper. Scum has the option to let town lynch themselves and just watch.
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Hunter65536: So you think adalia is town? Whom do you see being scum then? Also I've not said I'd be leading a lynch on anyone till now which is a strong statement to make IMO.
I do not think adalia is town hence my vote on him and my posts about his words.


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Sage103082: [...] Yes. Don't eat yellow snow. And not voting and just letting everyone else vote isnt town either. [...]
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HypersomniacLive: I won't even dignify the first bit with a comment. And you placing a vote when you (finally) showed up automatically makes you town, eh?

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Sage103082: [...] commenting on someone who is voting and you are not. Same as hyper. [...]
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HypersomniacLive: Forgive me, I was not aware that only those with a placed vote are entitled to comment on others with a placed vote.

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Sage103082: [...] Scum has the option to let town lynch themselves and just watch.
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HypersomniacLive: Didn't you just say you find adaliabooks scummy as hell?
Wow. You ok Hyper. You seem a bit snippy.

1. Your putting words in my mouth. That alone is scummy. I also had my vote on krypsen. Yes it did start as a play joke day one, however, his lack of talking and just voting however was something I found very scummy and was happy with my vote. Also if my lack of posting has been a issue please take it up with the mod, I do not need snide remarks.

2. Once again words in my mouth I did not say. But thank you for your smart ass comments, they definitely help move the game forward.

3. I DO FIND ADALIA SCUMMY. My comment about scum having the option to sit and let town lynch themselves is something that can happen. my comment was intended to show why I was commenting. If my comment on scum can let town lynch themselves is so off base for you, then does that mean all this talk about what may or may not happen during the night or days to come, does that fall into the same category to you?
Posted October 21, 2017
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trentonlf: And as I said to mchack: : "I did not take into consideration that both scum teams could try to convert flub at the same time or that both scum teams might target other players for the NK. So now more so than before I will not be voting flub and don’t think he is the necessary lynch today."
This is purely a guess but I predict a nasty surprise for scum in that case.
Posted October 21, 2017
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Hunter65536: This is purely a guess but I predict a nasty surprise for scum in that case.
Any nasty surprise for scum is a good surprise
Posted October 21, 2017
@Hyper - My post came off a little to snippy back at you. I do apologize It went to far. It was meant in jest to get my point across.
Posted October 21, 2017
Unofficial Vote Count

flubbucket - 2 Votes (trentonlf 123/213; Bookwyrm627 187; adaliabooks 265; mchack 268/316; Krypsyn 308/382; ZFR 312/363)

Bookwyrm627 - 0 Votes - (mchack 15/56; Bookwyrm627 34/47; adaliabooks 39/46; Krypsyn 42/49, Hunter65536 108/172)

trentonlf - 0 Votes

dedoporno - 0 Votes (Leonard03 107/169)

adaliabooks - 5 Votes (ZFR 10/32; Hunter65536 16/108; Krypsyn 28/33; mchack 117/174; Leonard03 169; Krypsyn 171/308; ZFR 192/312; Sage103082 300; ZFR 363; mchack 372, Krypsyn 382)

Krypsyn - 1 Votes - (Sage103082 22/300; ZFR 32/62; Krypsyn 33/42; Krypsyn 49/61; trentonlf 72/123; Krypsyn 74/129; trentonlf 261)

ZFR - 0 Votes (adaliabooks 9/26; Bookwyrm627 12/30; Krypsyn 24/28)

Hunter65536 - 0 votes (Bookwyrm627 30/34)

Leonard03 - 0 Votes (adaliabooks 87/115; mchack 94/117; Bookwyrm627 127/127)

mchack - 1 Votes (ZFR 62/153; Bookwyrm627 127/187; Krypsyn 129/171; adaliabooks 197/265; trentonlf 213/261; dedoporno 361)

Sage103082 - 0 Votes - (trentonlf 20/72; Bookwyrm627 47/127; adaliabooks 55/65; Krypsyn 61/74; mchack 201/268)

HypersomniacLive - 0 Votes (mchack 56/94; flubbucket 80/97)

Lifthrasil (i.e. suicide vote) - 0 Votes (dedoporno 98/114)

Other - 0 votes (flubbucket 97/160)

Not Voting - HypersomniacLive, flubbucket, Hunter65536
Posted October 22, 2017
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adaliabooks: And Bookwyrm and dedo seem a bit quiet too...
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dedoporno: I'm here now and reading. I had a day out with my family.
I'll let you off then ;)



Sorry everyone, works been really busy tonight and I don't think I have the energy to properly read and respond to everything tonight.
I'll post some responses to everyone tomorrow.
Posted October 22, 2017
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mchack: #30 [...]
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HypersomniacLive: I'm sorry, is your name Leonard03, or have you been appointed to speak for him, and I somehow missed it?
nope, sorry. thought you maybe didn't remember. But of course, as always there's more to your questions than meets the eye. Really sorry to have hampered your scumhunting there.

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mchack: [...] well, it just did after I watched the vids, doesn't matter though, [...]
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HypersomniacLive: It does to me, so I still want you to lay out your thought process behind that comment you made.
At the time he posted the vids, I was thinking he really might be scum and the vids themselves reinforced that for me. That yoda really is creepy at the end saying "I am not your friend. Don't go to sleep" suggesting scum and nightkills coming in. The second video, "I like to watch" suggests he doesn't actually want to play anymore and rather only observe. Hence my comment a short time later "sounds like suicidal scum to me"

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mchack: [...] nope, the majority of us do. [...]
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HypersomniacLive: So it was a meaningless comment in the middle of you seriously trying to make up your mind about him based on what he was saying?
not at all meaningless. By that time (#369) I was rather convinced he's town and was very angry at his play. it is my earnest believe that it is a bad play to go "vote me, I am the lynch today" as town. But it's a game and he did what he thinks is right, but he can't decide for all of us how this game goes on and that what I now believe is a town player is the lynch Day 1. Hence why I said: "you don't get to decide that"

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mchack: [...] lolwut, massclaim day 1? that's your thought after suggesting killing town, or no-lynch? you going after scummiest player alive award here?
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HypersomniacLive: Admit it, you really wanted to use the "scummiest player alive award", didn't you?
Or did you not understand what he meant by "thought experiment"?
If you do a thought experiment about a massclaim D1 or one about nolynch or one about the game is broken anyway and write about it in length, you get people to think about it, planting seeds etc. Sure he was not actually suggesting to do it, but he brought it up and may make some people think "hmm, massclaim..." or "broken setup, why even bother trying, town can't win anyway even if we know all scum players"
why even bring it up? that not scummy to you? for me it is.

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mchack: [...] I will, but I have more important stuff to do right now than reread and make a good case for them. If you only want names it's adalia and dedo for now. [...]
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HypersomniacLive: If I "only wanted names", why would I be asking you to go on record and lay out your stance? Especially since you already gave the names in your post #351?
okay, okay. there were really more important matters back then, but now since I have a bit of time:

my scumlist: (no townlist coming)

#1 adalia for,
a) painting a silly RVS joke of mine as a "genuine scumslip" - outlined in #254
b) speculating about Powerroles right after saying that's bad for town and without being pressured into it - outlined in #275
b2) throwing shade at HSL for no reason (well outright calling him scum (maybe)) - also in #275
c) Actively and verbosely trying to lynch a player he himself is sure is town - outlined in #318
d) baiting scum into recruiting him (good for him if he's scum) by mentioning having worked out good scum play - example in #228, #269, #318, #328
e) actually releasing said info into the wild (with noone asking for it (though I don't find it much, by his definition it helps scum)) - that is #370
f) the following sentence that really should be on a meme or something it's so scummy, I have to quote it:
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adaliabooks: ZFR almost had it right when he suggested no lynch, but the better result for town tomorrow is to have less vanillas floating about muddying the water.
#2 dedo for,
a) helping adalia in painting a silly RVS joke as a "genuine scumslip". #145 - outlined in #254
b) the whole self preservation bit + the omgus, lamist bits #214 + #258 + #270 + #209 while I conceded about the omgus and eventually lamist stuff being my own fault, I really felt he was going out of his way to make me look bad. could be scumhunting, could be setting me up as a town mislynch but what really got me was
c) when HSL entered and asked questions of his own he suddenly went all can't talk this is touching PR, #242 which I didn't want to accept and let to the whole "would you" debate he still answered with (and I paraphrase) "can't talk this is touching PR" - see yourself in #351
d) his Hypothetical case where he is hypothetically fishing for PR in #270, to which he later conceded he wouldn't actually do that #351
e) voting me with his only reason being "mchack is the strongest negative vibe" in #361

not adalia level stuff but it's what makes me think he may be scum for now. He was scum last game and I didn't get it till shortly before the end, so I might be overly sensitive with him. But that just means that he's a good scum player (or I'm a bad town player)

there's others that irk me a bit (to a way lesser extent), but after having thought about it, I don't wanna go into it right now.
Posted October 22, 2017
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mchack: You are scum, you are at L-1, you claim mason, lynch disperses (but now you have to be really afraid of the nk from the other scum team. They don't know you false claimed. They think they found a mason. Real masons just laugh about it and go on. They wouldn't counterclaim, why would they? For them the fakeclaim is a sure scum tell. Don't have to out themselves just because they know 1 scum for sure now. let's say this goes on. not all are nightkilled or even real masons get nightkilled. We'll have the flips. Only the real masons will flip mason and nothing can prevent a real mason from flipping so. This means as soon as 3 masons have flipped any other claim for mason from living persons is automatically a sure scum tell.
This I agree with. I'm not sure if I follow adalia's logic or if I miss something from it, but I don't see how claiming mason is such a good play for scum (well, they will probably avoid the immediate lynch but in the long run they are likely to go down anyway, since there are these new threats for them).


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adaliabooks: Actually knowing who all the scum is today is probably a worse position then not, because they can replenish their ranks faster than we can kill them, at least for the first couple of days.
What? How is that not the best position?! Or do you mean that in the context of a knowing everyone's role?


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Sage103082: Have you seen my posts about books? I have pointed out what I find off and I have my vote on him.
I have and up until now they were less than solid. Your vote on adalia was based on him giving Kyrpsyn a free pass for voting the player with the most votes. Your suspicion of him deepened based on him wagon jumping to secure a vote. Do you honestly believe these can pass for what you're asking of others?

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mchack: a) helping adalia in painting a silly RVS joke as a "genuine scumslip". #145 - outlined in #254
Now you are getting ridiculous. First of all, when you cite posts make sure to point to their actual numbers rather than your own responses to them. #141 was my post and I asked before adalia. How was I helping him paint anything as a slip if I mentioned it first?!

Do you realize the majority of your list is based on stuff I DIDN'T DO?! And if you honestly believe "mchack is the strongest negative vibe" is the reasoning behind my post as a sole statement with nothing behind it, I don't know what more to say to you, but feel free to update it to "even stronger". What did you call it last game? Shade casting?
Posted October 22, 2017
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mchack: ........ But it's a game and he did what he thinks is right, but he can't decide for all of us how this game goes on and that what I now believe is a town player is the lynch Day 1. Hence why I said: "you don't get to decide that"

.............
The major facet of town is our lack or knowledge. I'm not "deciding" what we're doing because I'm only one player. However I am offering a clear and obvious choice. Town players will see it and be able to use it to make a decision. I'm no tyrant, but this specific game setup does dictate a certain Day One protocol. Finding scum on Day One is really unlikely so making sure we don't lynch a valuable asset a paramount.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionForum Mafia #52 - SHODAN's children(1308 posts)(1308 posts)
(1308 posts)