Wall of text. Going for fewer, longer posts this week, so that I can logout and get shit done.
dedoporno: It's a bit of a paradox.
Yeah, I actually had a joke lined up if someone had responded to my point a bit differently - just needed a slightly different setup. I thought your question might actually have been serious, and the way you'd responded it would have been a bit of a non sequitor.
But it was basically what you said so THANKS FOR RUINING THE PUNCHLINE.
Also, timing is the key to comedy. ;)
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On the substitute issue, I have conversed with drealmer since he was mod-killed. While I know out of thread chat is "impermissible" (though it seems at least half the group does it based on conversations I've had with active players during games I've sat out the past year), he was upset so we chatted about that and about the game - most of it could well have taken place in thread if he were still playing but perhaps not all of it.
I think the major difference is that in the conversation we had, it would give him a different perspective vs. me saying the exact same things in game.
If you want to mod-kill me over that, feel free, though I would request the opportunity to speak my peace first, which drealmer didn't get. Anyway, as he was out of the game, there seemed no harm to the 'integrity of the game.'
People also seem to be thinking "he was vanilla, so what could he know?" But that glosses over the fact that drealmer never told us which role he bid. Bringing him back in would move the needle (again) in some direction, good /bad/otherwise. But it's likely to be unfair to someone, just as denying that info, or even denying him the chance to work his way out was unfair to him and probably to town (would depend on his bid, somewhat).
Now, if AFP is scum, maybe drealmer-reborn lies to us about what he bid. It would be comparably easier since he would likely know about multiple roles that are in the game. Maybe flub plays god and tells us what drealmer bid to avoid that. It's a mess either way, imo.
Anyway, on a practical level, drealmer said he was going to be very busy IRL starting tomorrow, so if AFP is going out because of ability/time to participate, I'm not sure we're really shifting much on that score, at least for D1.
If we are doing a sub for AFP, it would seem better to bring in adalia (though he may not want to and/or may have spoilers from the observer thread) or RW, etc. Though if AFP is scum, letting him lurk through all the early shit and then bringing in a ringer is a pretty significant advantage in a game where town is, quite unusually, already down 1 on D1.
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And is no one curious why Drealmer was mod-killed yet AFP gets a sub? On the one hand, I'm leery of asking the mod to intervene to clarify, but on the other hand I don't really see what the difference is here, other than that stepping in for AFP is a cushier gig for a sub (he hasn't said anything and is essentially a blank slate) than stepping in for someone getting some pressure and under a vote restriction.
Are vanillas mod-killable but roles important? Town mod-killable but scum not? Ok, drealmer was slightly abrasive (perhaps understandably) in that moment, but nothing egregious. Heck, it wasn't out of the realm of possibility it was all part of a big bluff until he was mod-killed, when it was quite clear it was not.
I assumed he was mod-killed because flub wasn't allowing subs. Now it's clearly not that, so...maybe the post restriction was flub too? I don't actually buy that, but it seems at least slightly more viable now that it looks like the mod-kill was arbitrary as well. Maybe drealmer triggered one of these "secret event things."
Congrats - you win a modkill! Modkilled for a single OMG post because it broke the post restriction? Hijack has gone entire days without following post restrictions.
The strongest thing I had going when I got out of the shower yesterday was that drealmer wasn't bluffing, the post restriction was meaningful, and follow the chain down and yogs is mafia. I know y'all can't reasonably know that, but I could. Come back and drealmer is dead, and suddenly I'm on defense.
Now afp getting a sub makes drealmer's mod-kill look potentially arbitrary, which makes his post restriction seem more possible to be arbitrary, etc. All my beautifully created tidal-wavey ripples now, frankly, mean next to shit.
(gut still says yogs definitely is, but evidence is a bit thinner)
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@flub - clarifying quesiton, is "No lynch" even allowable in this setup? my assumption was no, but...apparently I'm not good at assumptioning.
If subs are in play, I'm going to take a few hours to think about whether I want one as well. The banter is fun in spurts (ahem), but I can banter in the dead thread or via PMs or heckle zeo's game.
Otherwise not particularly enjoying this atm and drealmer's death plus the fallout I think has changed the game significantly and perhaps irrevocably. Had he lived even a bit longer I could have changed my vote to yogs, explained the riddle, and banked everything on yogs flipping mafia. As a D1 town play it's relatively high percentage, imo.
Now with one town already down, and me having little/no credibility, and WIFOM already sewn in comfortably by the team that did do it, there's zero way that wagon moves. So explaining the riddle is a loss even if I'm right.
But give yogs' team props. They made a bold play that could have blown up on them, but instead got drealmer killed as a freebie and still spun out of it when i set the stage to flip the table. GG.
So why am I not voting yogs? Recall in yogs game I was positive HSL was scum but had nothing to go on. Dess even made a vote on HSL based on weak arguments, and I was the first to talk him out of it. Both yogs and HSL are similar in that going at them on gut is going to fail because you're not going to rally the room on that basis, going at them with weak arguments is going to backfire because they can make you look worse more often than not. Pouring pretty much everything at yogs the best I've got right now is a stalemate.
Anyway, out for a few hours.
