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Trilarion: Who said it's a big deal? It's not terribly good but everyone here said that there have been worse cases and you link to some.
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Avogadro6: The way the OP is worded, and especially the title, sounds more like "holy shit dudes, your taxes go into videogaymz!!!" rather than a neutral "EU helps the entertainment industry with 4 millions subsidies". Which I would understand if we were on Kotaku or something, but this is a forum where you don't get paid for clicks.
It's a pity we don't get paid, I would have a lot of fun making clickbait titles :o)

And concerning cultural funds in general, they're a big joke. I've been "on the inside" for an European cultural fund grant (for another medium) and it's just some political game the way they're attributed (I'm not writing it bitterly as we got the money, I'm just stating the facts).

Also, most of the "culture" projects are just temporary trash and the money would be more well-spent for important things like social welfare and direct economy (I'm living next to the current "European capital of culture" so I see this kind of bullshit everyday). And while I'm at it, CDP didn't need that money at all and fuck EU...

That was my humble opinion... ^o^
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Trilarion: Who said it's a big deal? It's not terribly good but everyone here said that there have been worse cases and you link to some.
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Avogadro6: The way the OP is worded, and especially the title, sounds more like "holy shit dudes, your taxes go into videogaymz!!!" rather than a neutral "EU helps the entertainment industry with 4 millions subsidies". Which I would understand if we were on Kotaku or something, but this is a forum where you don't get paid for clicks.

Also, on the subject of "CDPR didn't really need it": while that's certainly true, how should these funds be used, exactly? Helping unknown 'artsy' game companies stay afloat? Wouldn't that be essentially a bigger waste of money than supporting a more commercially viable project? Let's even put the financial aspects aside for a moment: which one do you think will have a bigger cultural (for the lack of a better word) impact? The super-niche walking simulator (which may or may not be understood by its public) or the more popular RPG which is played by thousands more people? I'm inclined to think the latter is a better choice.
Or they could, you know, not steal... er, TAX the money from the people in the first place. Once the money's gone, it's gone. Who gives a shit what a thief does with the rewards of his actions. It's amazing how easily people are separated from their wealth. All it takes is some child psychology, a song and a dance, and the promise of a 'better tomorrow.'
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monkeydelarge: Tax money, well spent. :)
Indeed. Doesn't happen every day!
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Avogadro6: The way the OP is worded, and especially the title, sounds more like "holy shit dudes, your taxes go into videogaymz!!!" rather than a neutral "EU helps the entertainment industry with 4 millions subsidies". Which I would understand if we were on Kotaku or something, but this is a forum where you don't get paid for clicks.

Also, on the subject of "CDPR didn't really need it": while that's certainly true, how should these funds be used, exactly? Helping unknown 'artsy' game companies stay afloat? Wouldn't that be essentially a bigger waste of money than supporting a more commercially viable project? Let's even put the financial aspects aside for a moment: which one do you think will have a bigger cultural (for the lack of a better word) impact? The super-niche walking simulator (which may or may not be understood by its public) or the more popular RPG which is played by thousands more people? I'm inclined to think the latter is a better choice.
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Emob78: Or they could, you know, not steal... er, TAX the money from the people in the first place.
If taxing people is stealing, then I'm really a space monkey from planet banana.
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Emob78: Or they could, you know, not steal... er, TAX the money from the people in the first place.
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monkeydelarge: If taxing people is stealing, then I'm really a space monkey from planet banana.
Mr Space Monkey from Planet Banana, the government calls taxation REVENUE for a reason. At least with a greedy corporation you get a little something back for your money.
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monkeydelarge: If taxing people is stealing, then I'm really a space monkey from planet banana.
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Emob78: Mr Space Monkey from Planet Banana, the government calls taxation REVENUE for a reason. At least with a greedy corporation you get a little something back for your money.
So you never got anything from the government and society?
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Emob78: Mr Space Monkey from Planet Banana, the government calls taxation REVENUE for a reason. At least with a greedy corporation you get a little something back for your money.
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monkeydelarge: So you never got anything from the government and society?
Sure I did. Busted roads, prisons, ridiculous drug laws, illegal wars, public surveillance programs, overzealous police officers, and bailout programs for banks who spent all the money. Good stuff. Hope they do more of that kind of thing. We'll be back to cave man days in no time.

And what's the solution to these problems? Well, more of the same of course! Remember the definition of insanity. Doing the same shit over and over and expecting shit to change.
tired

Optimus S.A
Post edited September 01, 2015 by Cavenagh
Tax payers money and we sill got dowgrade, lies about redkit, poor optimization, bugs and bad pc controls....
Better than giving it to some dirtbag to plant flowers for 10 times their price and then with the rest buys himself a Lambo...
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Avogadro6: ... Also, on the subject of "CDPR didn't really need it": while that's certainly true, how should these funds be used, exactly? ...
Oh that's a really simple one. This money should not be used, it should not exist at all. It should be given back to the taxpayer (or even easier not getting collected at all) so that everyone can benefit from it. This is the most fair solution. Or in short: it should be in your and my account instead, so we could buy more Witcher games or other games as we see fit. This would be much better.

You say "only 4 million of subsidies" but even these comparably small sums add up to a big pile. And even with only 4 millions quite a lot of people have to work to generate that many taxes. All in all while still not the worst case, this is not a good way to spent money. Governments should not do it at all.

Just because there are worse things out there doesn't make a bad thing good. This would be too much relativism.
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monkeydelarge: If taxing people is stealing, then I'm really a space monkey from planet banana.
Stealing may even be the appropriate label in some cases, but in any way it's a big redistribution and often also a source of waste and inefficiencies and corruption. Subsidies are kind of a synonym for tax money really badly spent. One could think that the money is much better kept with the taxpayer in many cases.

One the other hand I would really like to see a space moneky from planet banana. :)
Post edited September 02, 2015 by Trilarion
Tale of Tales got 60,000 EUROS and THAT was what the could come up with???
Tax money VERY well spent.
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Trilarion: Stealing may even be the appropriate label in some cases, but in any way it's a big redistribution and often also a source of waste and inefficiencies and corruption. Subsidies are kind of a synonym for tax money really badly spent. One could think that the money is much better kept with the taxpayer in many cases.
Why subsidies is tax money badly spent?

For example a country does not produce oil that it had to import a lot from other countries.

It may be due to geographical reason or sanction or pirates raid or whatever reason that the price of oil are high. As it affect transportation, it will jack up the price of everything else. It can cause unscrupulous hording of oil and other basic materials to jack up the price of the market artificially and make the common man suffer.

The government can enforce the law that the price of oil must be fix at such, but supply and demand flourish the black market like Russia and does not help much. So the government subsidize oil price to stabilize the market. selling oil at a discount if they had to.
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Gnostic: Why subsidies is tax money badly spent?

For example a country does not produce oil that it had to import a lot from other countries.

It may be due to geographical reason or sanction or pirates raid or whatever reason that the price of oil are high. As it affect transportation, it will jack up the price of everything else. It can cause unscrupulous hording of oil and other basic materials to jack up the price of the market artificially and make the common man suffer.

The government can enforce the law that the price of oil must be fix at such, but supply and demand flourish the black market like Russia and does not help much. So the government subsidize oil price to stabilize the market. selling oil at a discount if they had to.
And where does the money for subsidizing the oil come from? Every dollar you give to someone you have to take away from someone else before. So while you help some you hurt others and in the end on average people are not better off but in many cases (see below) even worse.

If oil is scarce and expensive it would be much better to subsidize (or stimulate by other means) the efficient usage of oil or the replacement by other things which might be available at lower costs like electric heating instead of oil heating like better insulation like smaller and more efficient cars like better public transport like ...

Then this whole subsidization has an organizational overhead which costs money.

And it is prune to corruption. Who decides to whom the money goes. (For example here to CDP. Really to CDP???)

And in the European Union for example they do not subsidize oil, they subsidize agriculture and that in a region of the world where food can be produced in abundance. This is totally crazy. For example for some time they paid farmers to produce milk and butter and then paid for destroying it or cheaply exporting it. Or for another example the Mafia in South Italy is probably living on EU subsidies and the outcome is that this part of Italy does not become better (no incentive because the subsidies would not be given then anymore).

There may be good subsidies, for example food subsidies in poor countries but everything that goes beyond is most likely a big waste and or source of corruption (in my experience). I think in most cases it would be better to leave the money with the people and let them just spent it as they see fit.
Post edited September 02, 2015 by Trilarion