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General discussionBest ARPG(97 posts)(97 posts)
(97 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted May 04, 2019
Ah shame. I had GOG back then but never realised they even sold it. I've only recently started to use GOGGalaxy. Hopefully it will return one day!
Posted May 04, 2019
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wodens_spear: Ah shame. I had GOG back then but never realised they even sold it. I've only recently started to use GOGGalaxy. Hopefully it will return one day!
They even managed to fix the intro bug on some systems(where the intro sound would play but no video). Great game overall though, and it's sad it's gone from gog atm.
Posted May 04, 2019
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rtcvb32: An ARPG (Action RPG).

Hmmm... my favorite in the past was ShadowRun (Genesis).

No pausing (except inventory), limited inventory, endless runs/jobs (if you want) decent story, based on the limits of the time it's a great game for the time.

The SNES version... pales in comparison in my opinion.
The snes version started off crappy but ended sweet!
One of my Favourites was Dream Web

remember the trash goes out on wednesdays
The Door code is 5106
Eden's Birthday is 17th February
and net login password is Blackdragon

LOL anyone who's played that will understand what I'm referring to.
Post edited May 04, 2019 by fr33kSh0w2012
Posted May 04, 2019
low rated
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idbeholdME: Crucible is side content and it has been stated multiple times, that the game will NEVER be balanced around it.

And most builds should be able to handle the Nemesis enemies. It is the Super Bosses which are only for the select few (and that is something I kinda dislike).
Crucible is the content which I have wasted my money on, just to find out what a terrible money waste that was, when taken into consideration the over-the-top bullshitry going in it. From non-existing balancing to fps overkill.

Not sure where was it stated, nor how many times, nor am I interested in your angry rant. Take a chill pill, kid.

Nemesis monsters are not balanced, since most viable builds which can clear ultimate campaign without any issue usually are not able to deal with all nemesis monsters. Your angry rant can't change that fact. Kid.
Posted May 04, 2019
Diablo 1. After replaying it recently, I can say with certainty that for me that is still the pinacle of the genre. Sure, it lacks features introduced later, but dammit - it's still perfect just the way it is. The mood, the look, the voices, the simplicity and perfect execution of the setting and premise. Sure, later games added a lot of fun elements and arguable improvements, but nothing was ever quite as perfect again.
Posted May 04, 2019
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Breja: Diablo 1. After replaying it recently, I can say with certainty that for me that is still the pinacle of the genre. Sure, it lacks features introduced later, but dammit - it's still perfect just the way it is. The mood, the look, the voices, the simplicity and perfect execution of the setting and premise. Sure, later games added a lot of fun elements and arguable improvements, but nothing was ever quite as perfect again.
"Yes, that is indeed a cow"

Honorable mention: "Fresssh meat"
Post edited May 04, 2019 by GameRager
Posted May 04, 2019
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mqstout: I hated Dungeon Siege. It was bland as fuck, unfun. I hate "use based" progression in games (sorry, dtgreene), and the world was just so void and uninspired.
Maybe I'll chime in here.

There is one thing I dislike about the Dungeon Siege growth system, and that is the (hidden) uber level mechanic. Basically, the game keeps track of a global level and experience total for each character, and it is that value that determines how difficult it is to increase your stats. This means that, for example, a character who uses melee combat for much of the game can never be good with magic, because the stat used for magic will always be low, and you can't fix that with a reasonable amount of training. This results in characters being more-or-less locked into one role, which really feels like it defeats the point of having use based progression in the first place.

(There's another reason I ragequit the game: I started with a nature mage, and of course wanted a combat mage. First town, no recruitable combat mage, so I guess I'll wait until the next town. I reach the next town, after going through a lengthy dungeon, and the town is in ruins with nobody to recruit. It's at that point I ragequit. Well, at least I got the game for free (and the game did let me create a dark-skinned female character (no, I'm not dark-skinned, in case you are wondering).)

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Lifthrasil: @Darvond: Illusion of Gaia is great too. But it's not really an ARPG. That's more like a classical JRPG, isn't it?
Even if you accept that so-called ARPGs are RPGs (I don't, but that's another story), I still don't understand why you would count Illusion of Gaia as one. You don't have leveling in the usual sense (you gain a stat point the first time you clear out a room, and all the stat points you missed when you clear a boss, but that's purely scripted progression with no possibility for variation), there's no currency, there's no equipment, and the only non-quest items are herbs (of which there are a finite number in the game). Plus, it doesn't really help that, for much of the game, the game doesn't let you backtrack (and when it does, you can't go back to *before* that point). Also, there's no option for different set-ups; sometimes you'll be able to change characters mid-dungeon (but you always start as Will), but that's about it. As a result, it feels even less RPG-ish than something like a Zelda game (except maybe the large amount of dialog (sometimes too much) and towns where you can talk to people).

The other games in that series at least have experience points, levels, equipment, and even a choice of spells to select and use; Illusion of Gaia doesn't even have that.

(By the way, of those 3 games, Soul Blazer is the one I prefer, due to its significantly smaller amount of dialog and its lack of permanent missibles (which plague the later games in the series).)
Post edited May 04, 2019 by dtgreene
Posted May 04, 2019
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Pangaea666: Too bad they have turned it into a speed racer. It WAS good.
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Aramandur: Could you elaborate, please?
It is the direction they are clearly embracing based on how the last three or so leagues have been designed. The general gameplay is: pick a skill, hold down the right mouse button, watch the entire screen die, while you zoom-zoom across the land. There is a lot of talk and frustration about it in their forum (and probably reddit, but I don't venture there).

You then have other issues such a horrible off-kilter balance between skills, the death penalty coupled with stuff simply happening too fast to be able to react to stuff, on-death effects (on mobs) which can and will one-shot you from time to time.

The skill tree is still fantastic and you can customise skills wildly. However, you sort of "have to" pick certain paths and nodes, so the depth isn't quite as impressive as it appears from the look of the skill tree. It's the strong point of the game, though.

RNG gating has also taken off something fierce lately, which ofc is pretty frustrating if you want to get anywhere, including on the Atlas map system (their end-game system).

Remember I found the balance really weird when I first started playing as well. 99% of mobs die when you glance in their general direction, and then you suddenly have a boss or a rare enemy that will one-shot you out of the blue. The whole thing just feels really badly balanced right now, and I'm honestly not sure if they are able to get it back on track -- or if they even want to. From reading developer replies/articles, it seems fairly clear they WANT to embrace the speed racer crowd, the 1% community from the top streamers and suchlike, and ignore the howls and frustrations from the masses. I suppose it's where the money is, so screw the rest :/

This video made the rounds a few months ago and spurred a lot of discussion. It raises some of the key points that I briefly mentioned above: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3WkaqDYtXQ

Don't get me wrong, despite all this stuff (and it has admittedly gotten worse over time), I had a lot of fun with the game. It was fun to build characters and take on end-game content. But I am glad I stopped playing it. If you get my meaning, it didn't really feel like a game, but more like boring work where you just go through the motions and hope you finally get the map you need or a useful drop or something -- while everything around you die with next to no effort on your part. People are often going for super-speed gear and ignoring damage nodes because stuff will just die anyway, and it's more important to clear a map in 2 minutes or something so you can put the next coin/map in the slot machine and hope for good drops. Once the novelty wore off, that got pretty boring.
Post edited May 04, 2019 by Pangaea666
Posted May 05, 2019
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idbeholdME: Crucible is side content and it has been stated multiple times, that the game will NEVER be balanced around it.

And most builds should be able to handle the Nemesis enemies. It is the Super Bosses which are only for the select few (and that is something I kinda dislike).
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Wishmaster777: Crucible is the content which I have wasted my money on, just to find out what a terrible money waste that was, when taken into consideration the over-the-top bullshitry going in it. From non-existing balancing to fps overkill.

Not sure where was it stated, nor how many times, nor am I interested in your angry rant. Take a chill pill, kid.

Nemesis monsters are not balanced, since most viable builds which can clear ultimate campaign without any issue usually are not able to deal with all nemesis monsters. Your angry rant can't change that fact. Kid.
Angry rant... If you say so, man.

Good way of throwing a fit about not doing enough research before buying something. It is obviously a wave based horde mode where definitely not all builds are going to do well.

And if you are having trouble with Nemesis enemies, just grind better gear in a game which is, you know, about finding better gear. Or learn the mechanics of the specific Nemesis. Or adjust/optimize your build instead of immediately shouting how they are completely imbalanced at the first sign of trouble when your trash mob/campaign clearing build suddenly doesn't work against singular high-powered end game enemies.
Posted May 05, 2019
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Wishmaster777: Nemesis
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idbeholdME: Nemesis
Are the two of you in agreement on Nemesis monsters (appear related to factions) vs the super-bosses (Modrogen, Rashalga, Ravager, Callagadra, Clones, Lokarr, Crate? Because there's a *huge* difference between them. Nemesis are no problem if the build is halfways decent and the player fights intelligently. The super-bosses are the crappers that need degenerate techniques and specialized builds.
Post edited May 05, 2019 by mqstout
Posted May 05, 2019
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mqstout: I hated Dungeon Siege. It was bland as fuck, unfun. I hate "use based" progression in games (sorry, dtgreene), and the world was just so void and uninspired.
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dtgreene: Maybe I'll chime in here.

There is one thing I dislike about the Dungeon Siege growth system, and that is the (hidden) uber level mechanic. Basically, the game keeps track of a global level and experience total for each character, and it is that value that determines how difficult it is to increase your stats. This means that, for example, a character who uses melee combat for much of the game can never be good with magic, because the stat used for magic will always be low, and you can't fix that with a reasonable amount of training. This results in characters being more-or-less locked into one role, which really feels like it defeats the point of having use based progression in the first place.

(There's another reason I ragequit the game: I started with a nature mage, and of course wanted a combat mage. First town, no recruitable combat mage, so I guess I'll wait until the next town. I reach the next town, after going through a lengthy dungeon, and the town is in ruins with nobody to recruit. It's at that point I ragequit. Well, at least I got the game for free (and the game did let me create a dark-skinned female character (no, I'm not dark-skinned, in case you are wondering).)

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Lifthrasil: @Darvond: Illusion of Gaia is great too. But it's not really an ARPG. That's more like a classical JRPG, isn't it?
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dtgreene: Even if you accept that so-called ARPGs are RPGs (I don't, but that's another story), I still don't understand why you would count Illusion of Gaia as one. You don't have leveling in the usual sense (you gain a stat point the first time you clear out a room, and all the stat points you missed when you clear a boss, but that's purely scripted progression with no possibility for variation), there's no currency, there's no equipment, and the only non-quest items are herbs (of which there are a finite number in the game). Plus, it doesn't really help that, for much of the game, the game doesn't let you backtrack (and when it does, you can't go back to *before* that point). Also, there's no option for different set-ups; sometimes you'll be able to change characters mid-dungeon (but you always start as Will), but that's about it. As a result, it feels even less RPG-ish than something like a Zelda game (except maybe the large amount of dialog (sometimes too much) and towns where you can talk to people).

The other games in that series at least have experience points, levels, equipment, and even a choice of spells to select and use; Illusion of Gaia doesn't even have that.

(By the way, of those 3 games, Soul Blazer is the one I prefer, due to its significantly smaller amount of dialog and its lack of permanent missibles (which plague the later games in the series).)
1. The growth system is supposed to REWARD you with better skills in certain areas in a "realistic" fashion(i.e. you train/use such and you get better with them). To just allow everyone to do everything in every game because some felt left out(imo) is unrealistic and silly.

2. The inventory limit was far worse(along with the areas sometimes not looading ahead of/behind the player and areas being blacked out/glitched sometimes), imo.

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1. Imo and by my definition any game where one plays a character is 'role playing" as you are often playing a particular role(a flavor of hero, a certain job, etc) while doing so.

2. I LOVE massive dialog....it's one reason why I loved Planescape: Torment.
Posted May 05, 2019
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idbeholdME: Good way of throwing a fit about not doing enough research before buying something. It is obviously a wave based horde mode where definitely not all builds are going to do well.
I don't know in which fairytale land you live, but in a real world the store page doesn't issue a warning that the DLC doesn't have balanced difficulty for viable campaign builds.

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idbeholdME: And if you are having trouble with Nemesis enemies, just grind better gear in a game which is, you know, about finding better gear. Or learn the mechanics of the specific Nemesis. Or adjust/optimize your build instead of immediately shouting how they are completely imbalanced at the first sign of trouble when your trash mob/campaign clearing build suddenly doesn't work against singular high-powered end game enemies.
Genius. Well played, sir, well played. Who would have thought to try out better gear, and/or respec the skill points? Ah, you. Only you. You are the only one to come up with a such brilliant idea. Well done, I am so proud of you. :-)

The game is not balanced, your comments won't make a difference. It is up to development team, not fanboys like yourself.
Post edited May 05, 2019 by Wishmaster777
Posted May 05, 2019
low rated
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idbeholdME: Good way of throwing a fit about not doing enough research before buying something. It is obviously a wave based horde mode where definitely not all builds are going to do well.
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Wishmaster777: I don't know in which fairytale land you live, but in a real world the store page doesn't issue a warning that the DLC doesn't have balanced difficulty for viable campaign builds.

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idbeholdME: And if you are having trouble with Nemesis enemies, just grind better gear in a game which is, you know, about finding better gear. Or learn the mechanics of the specific Nemesis. Or adjust/optimize your build instead of immediately shouting how they are completely imbalanced at the first sign of trouble when your trash mob/campaign clearing build suddenly doesn't work against singular high-powered end game enemies.
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Wishmaster777: Genius. Well played, sir, well played. Who would have thought to try out better gear, and/or respec the skill points? Ah, you. Only you. You are the only one to come up with a such brilliant idea. Well done, I am so proud of you. :-)

The game is not balanced, your comments won't make a difference. It is up to development team, not fanboys like yourself.
This is not up to them/their responsibility, as it doesn't affect your ability to start the game or harm you physically/etc. This is why reviews are your friend. ;)

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The one you replied to offered good advice in a respectful manner....now play nice or GOG will have to sic the bears on ya. :p
Posted May 05, 2019
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GameRager: 1. The growth system is supposed to REWARD you with better skills in certain areas in a "realistic" fashion(i.e. you train/use such and you get better with them). To just allow everyone to do everything in every game because some felt left out(imo) is unrealistic and silly.
The problem is that:
1. The system rewards overspecialization and punishes more diverse characters.
2. Even without the uber level mechanic, it would still take a while to train a character in a new role; the point is that it would at least be possible.
3. There's also a more philosophical avenue; I like to see growth systems where there isn't a single number that is an overall measure of the character's power. The uber level is such a number, and I would rather not have that, as it feels like it defeats the point.


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GameRager: 1. Imo and by my definition any game where one plays a character is 'role playing" as you are often playing a particular role(a flavor of hero, a certain job, etc) while doing so.
That definition is far too broad to be useful. (It includes games like Super Mario Bros. and other arcadey games that have nothing in common gameplay-wise with games that are commonly called RPGs.)
Post edited May 05, 2019 by dtgreene
Posted May 05, 2019
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GameRager: 1. The growth system is supposed to REWARD you with better skills in certain areas in a "realistic" fashion(i.e. you train/use such and you get better with them). To just allow everyone to do everything in every game because some felt left out(imo) is unrealistic and silly.
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dtgreene: The problem is that:
1. The system rewards overspecialization and punishes more diverse characters.
2. Even without the uber level mechanic, it would still take a while to train a character in a new role; the point is that it would at least be possible.
3. There's also a more philosophical avenue; I like to see growth systems where there isn't a single number that is an overall measure of the character's power. The uber level is such a number, and I would rather not have that, as it feels like it defeats the point.

===========================

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GameRager: 1. Imo and by my definition any game where one plays a character is 'role playing" as you are often playing a particular role(a flavor of hero, a certain job, etc) while doing so.
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dtgreene: That definition is far too broad to be useful. (It includes games like Super Mario Bros. and other arcadey games that have nothing in common gameplay-wise with games that are commonly called RPGs.)
1. Games/such systems will often reward certain styles of play over others. This doesn't make such games bad by default(to everyone), though, or unfair(again, to everyone). It just means you have to think ahead and either train you/your characters in the proper skills or avoid using certain skill sets.

Also, at least(iirc) DS1 doesn't lock certain areas behind having certain skills(DS2 doesn with the optional item rooms/towers, though).

2, It is possible to use all skill sets in DS1 regardless.....simply train in the skills you want and have companions train in/use the ones you're not fluent in/good with. It is a bit unfair to newer players who don't know the ropes yet, but that's what trial and error is for imo.

3. Numbers are a good indicator of progress though & useful to many, which is why we( as a society) use them so bloody much(irl and online/in games/etc).

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Imo definitions can be as broad/narrow as one wants and still be useful/correct to them when subjeciveity comes into play.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionBest ARPG(97 posts)(97 posts)
(97 posts)