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General discussionAnnouncement: Big Preorders & Launch Day Releases Coming!(4041 posts)(4041 posts)
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Posted February 21, 2014
The DRM-Free Revolution Continues with Big Pre-Orders and Launch Day Releases!

Good news! GOG.com is going to bring you more fantastic launch day releases, preorders, and other exciting new content from some of our favorite developers. We've lined up 3 big titles that we will be bringing to GOG.com in the next couple of months for sale or preorder that we think will be hits with all of our gamers; and we have more equally exciting games coming up soon.

If you've been a member of the site for a long time, you may recall that when we launched sales of The Witcher 2 on GOG.com, we had to add in regional pricing. The game cost different amounts in in the US, the UK, the European Union, and Australia. We're doing something like that once again in order to bring you new titles from fantastic bigger studios. Since we don't accept currencies other than USD on GOG.com right now, we'll be charging the equivalent of the local price in USD for these titles. We wish that we could offer these games at flat prices everywhere in the world, but the decision on pricing is always in our partners' hands, and regional pricing is becoming the standard around the globe. We're doing this because we believe that there's no better way to accomplish our overall goals for DRM-Free gaming and GOG.com. We need more games, devs, and publishers on board to make DRM-Free gaming something that's standard for all of the gaming world!

That brings with it more good news, though! As mentioned, we have three games we're launching soon with regional pricing--two RPGs and a strategy game--and while we can't tell you what they are yet because breaking an NDA has more severe penalties than just getting a noogie, we're confident that you'll be as excited about these games as we are. For a limited time, we will be offering anyone who pre-orders or buys one of them a free game from a selection as a gift from GOG.com, just like we did for The Witcher 2.

If you have any questions, hit us up in the comments below and we'll be happy to answer (to the best of our ability).

EDIT: Since we've answered a lot of the common questions already here (and lest you think that we've ignored you), it may be handy for you to check out the forum thread about this and search for staff answers by clicking this link here. (hat tip to user Eli who reminded us that the feature even exists. :)
Posted February 26, 2014
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Artoemius: It was not that their fair pricing itself made them unique. It was sticking to their principles. Maybe this video will convince you. They said it all themselves.
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Alexrd: What's with the strawman? What part of "I acknowledged that flat prices was one of their values" did you not understand?

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Artoemius: Until these changes, DRM on GOG was unthinkable. Now it's not.
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Alexrd: Really? Since DRM is what makes GOG stand out from its competition, it would be a very naive thing to even think they will ever put DRM on GOG. But hey, nobody is stopping you from doing it. Let me know when they do, ok?
I think that you will find that it is naive to think that GOG won't put DRM in their games. Few people thought that GOG would change their Worldwide Prices policy, but here we are now.

If GOG can't be trusted to stick to their principles over Worldwide Prices, why should people expect them to stick to their DRM-Free policy either?

It isn't about choice - it's about the fact that GOG has sold their principles for a few new games. It doesn't matter which principle it is. I would be just as vocal if they dropped their DRM-Free or Good Old Games principles as well.

It should not be a case of "oh well, at least they kept DRM-Free." That is indicative of a certain degree of selfishness that is manifested in the fact that you don't value Worldwide Pricing, therefore you don't care.

I DO value Worldwide Pricing, because I value GOG's principles - apparently more than GOG currently does. I also value DRM-Free games (although I am not too anti-DRM - just anti-bad DRM), and I value Good Old Games. If either of those principles are going to be under threat, I will argue against them unless there is a REALLY GOOD justification why. 3 new games, and the nebulous promise of more, just isn't good enough.

This is like selling your soul to the devil for a bacon sandwich. And not even a good bacon sandwich at that!
Posted February 26, 2014
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vampiro13: The regional pricing is not even fair (in the sense of depending on average income, as if that would be fair...). Bulgarians pay 55 USD for AOW3, lots of Bulgarians don't even earn that amount of money / month (at least not after paying for rent and food). In Germany, the average income might be quite high, but recent statistics show that the income gap (rich versus poor) is the highest in all of Europe.
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RS1978: That's a point I can absolutely agree with. Personally I would grant Bulgarians or Romanians lower prices, but I can hardly understand why Americans get always far better prices than we Germans. I'm not exactly a wealthy man and it will thoroughly hurt me to pay 55 Dollars for The Witcher 3 or Divinity: Original Sin, but I'm willing to bite the bullet for two desiderated releases I can really own.

Btw. I can quite comprehend your point of view and I've never intended to affront you. :)
Hi :-)

Yes, it just shows, like GOG used to say, regional pricing is not fair - since it's an important aspect to me, I can't support GOG anymore.

I think both points of view are understandable in their own right and there is no clear right or wrong (more DRM-free games versus no regional pricing).

I am not offended or so, no worries :) I just felt it important to point out that those opposing regional pricing do so, in general, as a matter of principle and not in order to save their own money.
Posted February 26, 2014
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adamhm: That's assuming that certain games would still be released DRM-free elsewhere if they were not being released DRM-free here. Most publishers will just offer Steam keys elsewhere :/ Just look at the Humble Store's most recent releases, for example.
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RS1978: Sadly true. For the moment, we have to decide whether there shall be furthermore big DRM-free releases or none at all. As someone wrote in another thread: Worldwide pricing is another fight for another day. I will preorder Divinity: Original Sin and The Witcher 3 if they show up on GOG in order to support DRM-free launch day releases in the future. Perhaps if this fight is won, we will take a second look in the pricing matter.
Once GOG has changed from Worldwide Pricing to Regional Pricing, what reason do they have to go back? The pricing issue is just as important as, and part of, the issue with DRM.

The whole DRM debate is that you can't do what you want with a product you buy. That means that the price is important here. If you are going to rent a game, you expect to pay $5, not $50. You certainly don't expect to pay the price of a full game just to be told that you are actually just renting it.

High and unfair prices combined with DRM issues is the problem here. Fighting one, but not the other, doesn't make any sense.

In fact, if we don't fight high/unfair prices alongside DRM-Free games, we are essentially encouraging a DRM-Free tax. Do you really want to see games that are $50 with DRM, and $100 DRM-Free? Because that will be what happens if we stop caring about high/unfair prices.
Posted February 26, 2014
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RS1978: I was pleased with the flat pricing here on GOG as well, but I appreciate the DRM freedom far higher. So if I have to choose, my decision is clear. Of course, I have to think long and hard about all new purchases, but if I want a new game, it's always better to pay here for a DRM-free version which I really own then the same price on Steam for a rental game.
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vampiro13: I understand your point of view and that you value DRM-free higher than flat pricing. For me, both is more or less equally important. I do have a few games on steam (Blackguards from the EA Flash Sale, Civ 5 because I just had to play it eventually and bought it in a sale as well; most games are from humble sales). As soon as it gets too intrusive (e.g. always on) I would not buy any game (e.g. Ubisoft).

For me, the flat price has been incredibly important on GOG, just because it's a rip off. The regional pricing is not even fair (in the sense of depending on average income, as if that would be fair...). Bulgarians pay 55 USD for AOW3, lots of Bulgarians don't even earn that amount of money / month (at least not after paying for rent and food). In Germany, the average income might be quite high, but recent statistics show that the income gap (rich versus poor) is the highest in all of Europe.

I basically just wanted to point out that the conclusion that people opposing regional pricing just want to pay less is not correct (a guy from the US posted he would show solidarity for example). I GUESS that most (if not all) opposing regional prices had not started a shitstorm if the prices in general (as in USD for everyone) had gone up a bit. It is more a matter of principle rather than affordability.

I am sure GOG will not make major losses because of the people who value DRM-free higher. But those opposing regional prices do not do so, at least not in general, because they want smaller prices. They could easily pirate a DRM-free copy from a buddy who bought it on GOG (and share the costs).
I understand your view, and I agree that regional pricing is total bullshit 99% of the time, but think about this logically.

Surely you understand that it'll be much easier to convince publishers to change their policy on DRM than it will be to convince them to go all-in with worldwide pricing?

Look at it from the perspective of the publishers. DRM is almost entirely a choice on their part, they aren't usually obligated to use it by any external arrangement or agreement (although their investors may insist on it over fears of piracy). However regional pricing is heavily pushed by physical retailers (who account for a big chunk of global sales and exposure and therefore have a lot of influence) and publishers are must either go along with it or sacrifice all those retail sales & exposure.

From their perspective, does it look worth it to drop all those retail sales (I don't have any exact figures, but let's say retail accounts for 40% of global sales) just to gain more sales through a comparatively small digital store, which ultimately would only make you back a few % of what you had to sacrifice? With most sales then also having to be at a lower price? And with Steam already accounting for something like 70-80% of your digital sales (with the rest mostly being Steam key resellers), and that's with both DRM and regional pricing?

So if GOG can at least win on the DRM issue for now, surely that's preferable to stalling on both issues?


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Davane: I think that you will find that it is naive to think that GOG won't put DRM in their games. Few people thought that GOG would change their Worldwide Prices policy, but here we are now.
As I posted in another thread:
I'm sure GOG would never start to allow DRM. If they did then they'd offer absolutely nothing over Steam and therefore be unable to compete. Either that, or they'd have to become merely yet another Steam key reseller. And then what would differentiate them from the many other Steam key resellers out there?

What would they have to gain from that? DRM-free is their #1 unique selling point. How many other stores insist that all of the games they sell must be DRM-free? Sure GOG might be able to "sell" more games if they allowed DRM or started just selling Steam keys... but then, to whom? They built up their userbase first and foremost on the DRM-free aspect of their business, it is their identity; it's been given as the main motivation behind almost every change in policy they've made so far. When I recommend GOG to people and whenever I've seen others recommend GOG it's always the DRM-free aspect that's mentioned as the main reason to buy here (the other being compatibility, when older games are involved). GOG have always been about DRM-free first and foremost and if they ever dropped that then they'd also be throwing away almost their entire userbase. It would be suicide for them.
Posted February 26, 2014
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vampiro13: For me, the flat price has been incredibly important on GOG, just because it's a rip off. The regional pricing is not even fair (in the sense of depending on average income, as if that would be fair...). Bulgarians pay 55 USD for AOW3, lots of Bulgarians don't even earn that amount of money / month (at least not after paying for rent and food). In Germany, the average income might be quite high, but recent statistics show that the income gap (rich versus poor) is the highest in all of Europe.
I don't it think it does depend on average income. I keep seeing this referred to on the forum as the reason, but I don't think it is. There's several factors I'm sure. With Russia I'll wager that it's primarily to deter piracy. My understanding is that it's pretty heavy over there. That has to do with several factors, including due to income, but not limited to it. Maybe their laws come into play too.
Post edited February 26, 2014 by JohnnyDollar
Posted February 26, 2014
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Alexrd: Really? Since DRM is what makes GOG stand out from its competition, it would be a very naive thing to even think they will ever put DRM on GOG. But hey, nobody is stopping you from doing it. Let me know when they do, ok?
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Davane: I think that you will find that it is naive to think that GOG won't put DRM in their games. Few people thought that GOG would change their Worldwide Prices policy, but here we are now.

If GOG can't be trusted to stick to their principles over Worldwide Prices, why should people expect them to stick to their DRM-Free policy either?

It isn't about choice - it's about the fact that GOG has sold their principles for a few new games. It doesn't matter which principle it is. I would be just as vocal if they dropped their DRM-Free or Good Old Games principles as well.

It should not be a case of "oh well, at least they kept DRM-Free." That is indicative of a certain degree of selfishness that is manifested in the fact that you don't value Worldwide Pricing, therefore you don't care.

I DO value Worldwide Pricing, because I value GOG's principles - apparently more than GOG currently does. I also value DRM-Free games (although I am not too anti-DRM - just anti-bad DRM), and I value Good Old Games. If either of those principles are going to be under threat, I will argue against them unless there is a REALLY GOOD justification why. 3 new games, and the nebulous promise of more, just isn't good enough.

This is like selling your soul to the devil for a bacon sandwich. And not even a good bacon sandwich at that!
Well said, Davane. I heartily agree.

DISCLAIMER: This is NOT an example of Godwin's Law. I am NOT comparing the current situation on GOG with Nazi Germany. I am simply using a well known quote to illustrate a principle. The quote happens to relate to Nazi Germany, but the principle does not. So knock it off ;-)

To quote Martin Niemöller:
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.
My point here is that it's all well and good for people to say "I don't care that they gave up the principle about one worldwide price, because I happen to be indifferent to that principle. As long as they don't give up the principle of no DRM, I'm fine with it". But giving up one principle is indicative of a willingness to give up principles in general, so it should worry them, even if they are not personally affected by, or merely indifferent to, the current changes in pricing structure.

Basically, if you care about any of GOG's principles, you have a vested interest in making sure they do not give up any of them. If they get into the habit of doing so, they will eventually give up one you do care about, by which time it will likely be too late for you to do anything about it,
Posted February 26, 2014
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Ekaros: But we are angry because they dropped a more important issue to fight for less important issue. An issue they have been using in marketing for years, that is betrayal of customer.

The fight for DRM-free could have been left for other day.
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adamhm: Really. You'd rather let publishers retain control over what you "buy" from them (including giving them the ability to revoke your ability to play for any reason) and endure arbitrary restrictions on when/where/how you can play etc. as well as suffer the hassle that DRM inevitably creates when it screws up? You'd rather hand control over to the very same people who want to screw you with regional pricing, and you think they won't try to screw you with that?

DRM is a much more important fight. Regional pricing might mean getting ripped off every now & then, but I'd rather buy something that's overpriced and "own" it than pay 70% of the cost and merely "rent" it. Also, regional pricing is an issue that will not and can not be resolved simply and quickly. Not while physical retail is still alive and (more or less) well. DRM is an issue that can be resolved in a much shorter timeframe.

Here's a hypothetical scenario- If GOG decided to adopt DRM (by selling Steam keys, as it would be pointless to try any other DRM scheme) and kept worldwide pricing. What do you think would change? How would that help them? Answer: not at all. They wouldn't get any more signficant titles. Certainly none of the major titles, as those would still be bogged down with retail agreements mandating regional pricing. All that would happen is you'd start to see indie developers selling only Steam keys here, that they would also be selling elsewhere at the same price through e.g. Humble Widgets on their own site.
It's not an either or situation. We had DRM free and region-free pricing here until GOG decided to sell us out and change that to get games that quite honestly were already coming here.

I'm personally tired of supporting GOG, I used to think that they sort of understood, but now I realize that it was probably always a marketing ploy and that they probably never intended to live up to their promises.

As more companies came here and the ones that did saw what kind of money they were dealing with, DRM new releases would eventually happen anyways. Selling out over marginal titles just makes us look cheap.
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Wishbone: SNIP
At this point, they have already sold out basically all their original principles. Right now they sell games everywhere toanybody and they lack DRM. And that's about it. Compare that with the original ideals they had and they should be embarrassed. It's rather telling that the blues have pretty much given up trying to convince us otherwise after that quarter-assed attempt to convince us with that letter. That's right, quarter-assed, not even half-assed.
Post edited February 26, 2014 by hedwards
Posted February 26, 2014
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vampiro13: I understand your point of view and that you value DRM-free higher than flat pricing. For me, both is more or less equally important. I do have a few games on steam (Blackguards from the EA Flash Sale, Civ 5 because I just had to play it eventually and bought it in a sale as well; most games are from humble sales). As soon as it gets too intrusive (e.g. always on) I would not buy any game (e.g. Ubisoft).

For me, the flat price has been incredibly important on GOG, just because it's a rip off. The regional pricing is not even fair (in the sense of depending on average income, as if that would be fair...). Bulgarians pay 55 USD for AOW3, lots of Bulgarians don't even earn that amount of money / month (at least not after paying for rent and food). In Germany, the average income might be quite high, but recent statistics show that the income gap (rich versus poor) is the highest in all of Europe.

I basically just wanted to point out that the conclusion that people opposing regional pricing just want to pay less is not correct (a guy from the US posted he would show solidarity for example). I GUESS that most (if not all) opposing regional prices had not started a shitstorm if the prices in general (as in USD for everyone) had gone up a bit. It is more a matter of principle rather than affordability.

I am sure GOG will not make major losses because of the people who value DRM-free higher. But those opposing regional prices do not do so, at least not in general, because they want smaller prices. They could easily pirate a DRM-free copy from a buddy who bought it on GOG (and share the costs).
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adamhm: I understand your view, and I agree that regional pricing is total bullshit 99% of the time, but think about this logically.

Surely you understand that it'll be much easier to convince publishers to change their policy on DRM than it will be to convince them to go all-in with worldwide pricing?

Look at it from the perspective of the publishers. DRM is almost entirely a choice on their part, they aren't usually obligated to use it by any external arrangement or agreement (although their investors may insist on it over fears of piracy). However regional pricing is heavily pushed by physical retailers (who account for a big chunk of global sales and exposure and therefore have a lot of influence) and publishers are must either go along with it or sacrifice all those retail sales & exposure.

From their perspective, does it look worth it to drop all those retail sales (I don't have any exact figures, but let's say retail accounts for 40% of global sales) just to gain more sales through a comparatively small digital store, which ultimately would only make you back a few % of what you had to sacrifice? With most sales then also having to be at a lower price? And with Steam already accounting for something like 70-80% of your digital sales (with the rest mostly being Steam key resellers), and that's with both DRM and regional pricing?

So if GOG can at least win on the DRM issue for now, surely that's preferable to stalling on both issues?

[...]
Well, GOG argues that they can only bring these titles on board because of contracts with retailers. I don't necessarily see why publishers would agree to publish on GOG because they can now have regional pricing. Why would they give up on DRM? Also, the titles are not a huge argument (as it might have seemed when reading the announcement). Two titles were known to go on GOG already, at least AOW3 was financed on Kickstarter, Witcher is from the sister company, none of the 3 games comes from a big publisher and, to be honest, only The Witcher is AAA.

I don't quite get what external arrangement you are referring to. It is usually the publishers who a) decide on DRM and b) make the contracts with the retailers, that is part of their job. I am not convinced that if a publisher refused to go the path of regional prices, that a retailer would not put the game on their shelfs - as long as they can still make a profit, of course.

I am not convinced that dropping regional pricing would significantly hurt retail sales, some shops would still offer the product. In addition, lots of the retail customers would then go for the digital version (if no physical copy was available in their country) - and there is a much greater profit margin for the publisher. Hence, even if retail sales dropped completely from 40% to 0, the increased profit from online sales would surely make up for it.

I disagree, I think sticking to core principles is more important than a vague hope of a step forward in the DRM-war, which I honestly do not see with the announced games (neither with the games themselves nor the games being major door openers, such as a major title from EA or Ubisoft might have been).
Posted February 26, 2014
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hedwards: *snip*
OT: I like your new avatar, hedwards ;-)
Posted February 26, 2014
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vampiro13: For me, the flat price has been incredibly important on GOG, just because it's a rip off. The regional pricing is not even fair (in the sense of depending on average income, as if that would be fair...). Bulgarians pay 55 USD for AOW3, lots of Bulgarians don't even earn that amount of money / month (at least not after paying for rent and food). In Germany, the average income might be quite high, but recent statistics show that the income gap (rich versus poor) is the highest in all of Europe.
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JohnnyDollar: I don't it think it does depend on average income. I keep seeing this referred to on the forum as the reason, but I don't think it is. There's several factors I'm sure. With Russia I'll wager that it's primarily to deter piracy. My understanding is that it's pretty heavy over there. That has to do with several factors, including income, but not limited to it. Maybe their laws come into play too.
It comes from some people who say the regional pricing is fair because rich people in Europe can afford the higher price. I agree with you, there are other factors. None of them being fairness.
Posted February 26, 2014
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adamhm: snip

Here's a hypothetical scenario- If GOG decided to adopt DRM (by selling Steam keys, as it would be pointless to try any other DRM scheme) and kept worldwide pricing. What do you think would change? How would that help them? Answer: not at all. They wouldn't get any more signficant titles. Certainly none of the major titles, as those would still be bogged down with retail agreements mandating regional pricing. All that would happen is you'd start to see indie developers selling only Steam keys here, that they would also be selling elsewhere at the same price through e.g. Humble Widgets on their own site.
I'd be out of here in an eye's blink if this would ever happen - I don't even have a Steam account.
Posted February 26, 2014
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Davane: I think that you will find that it is naive to think that GOG won't put DRM in their games.
Really? How so? If GOG ever puts DRM in their games, it makes them no different than its competition, therefore making them obsolete and eventually "deceased".

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Davane: Few people thought that GOG would change their Worldwide Prices policy, but here we are now.
Here we are now, with an higher chance to get those games (and newer ones) the community has been asking for, DRM-free. I'll take that.
Posted February 26, 2014
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JohnnyDollar: I don't it think it does depend on average income. I keep seeing this referred to on the forum as the reason, but I don't think it is. There's several factors I'm sure. With Russia I'll wager that it's primarily to deter piracy. My understanding is that it's pretty heavy over there. That has to do with several factors, including income, but not limited to it. Maybe their laws come into play too.
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vampiro13: It comes from some people who say the regional pricing is fair because rich people in Europe can afford the higher price. I agree with you, there are other factors. None of them being fairness.
Yeah, I don't think that's it. If that was the case, then U.S., Canada, Japan, Germany, UK...they would all be paying the highest prices. I'm not going to pretend that I know all the intricacies of it, but that's not it.

*puts on market expert hat* :P

Physical retail plays a role, usually, I think, because the publishers don't want to undercut their physical retail business. How distribution works for physical retail and it's relation to it. I would think consumption as well as taxes/fees/red tape would play a role. Various laws and agreements between and among different governments and such. Basically the kind of market and economy of the region. Blah blah blah, I'm not an expert on the subject, but you know what I mean.
Post edited February 26, 2014 by JohnnyDollar
Posted February 26, 2014
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Davane: I think that you will find that it is naive to think that GOG won't put DRM in their games.
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Alexrd: Really? How so? If GOG ever puts DRM in their games, it makes them no different than its competition, therefore making them obsolete and eventually "deceased".

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Davane: Few people thought that GOG would change their Worldwide Prices policy, but here we are now.
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Alexrd: Here we are now, with an higher chance to get those games (and newer ones) the community has been asking for, DRM-free. I'll take that.
And not only that I remember DRM Free being the reason now, like everyone was complaining about DRM being a terrible thing happening to PC gaming (or gaming in general) and people raging against Diablo 3, Simcity 2013, and Ubisoft's Always Online, and EA with Spore. Not once I have heard from anyone saying the fair price was the absolute reason. So because of that GOG assumes that everyone wanted DRM free more than fair price.

I be surprised once a game like say Morrowind comes out people will forget this ordeal.
Posted February 26, 2014
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vampiro13: It comes from some people who say the regional pricing is fair because rich people in Europe can afford the higher price. I agree with you, there are other factors. None of them being fairness.
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JohnnyDollar: Yeah, I don't think that's it. If that was the case, then U.S., Canada, Japan, Germany, UK...they would all be paying the highest prices. I'm not going to pretend that I know all the intricacies of it, but that's not it.

*puts on market expert hat* :P

Physical retail plays a role, usually, I think, because the publishers don't want to undercut their physical retail business. How distribution works for physical retail and it's relation to it. I would think consumption as well as taxes/fees/red tape would play a role. Various laws and agreements between and among different governments and such. Basically the kind of market and economy of the region. Blah blah blah, I'm not an expert on the subject, but you know what I mean.
Exactly :)

Well, about retail. I actually think publishers, in the long run, want to get rid of retail. The big publishers will want to publish on their own online plattform (Origin, Battlenet, Ubishitplay) in order to increase their profit.

As for the costs to do retail, we can't really sell. After all the 3 companies are based in Europe, so u'd actually expect them to be cheaper in Europe (less transportation costs, no toll). Yet, that is not the case. Do they all come from China? But then again, why is it cheaper in Norway than in Bulgaria?
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General discussionAnnouncement: Big Preorders & Launch Day Releases Coming!(4041 posts)(4041 posts)
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