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dtgreene: I will likely finish this run, and my next playthrough will likely be a Cleric/Mage with my "hack one extra spell per level" houserule. But first, I want to play something else. (I am actually thinking of Arena (which I've played before) even though I have many shiny games I haven't yet played (Including Morrowind and Secret of the Silver Blades).
There is also Agarest... You miss on games with a lot of colorful characters (just look at attached screenshot) and cool unusual gameplay. I'd probably recommend you playing Agarest 1, 2 first (which play slightly as Final Fantasy Tactics but with more dynamic).
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melchior.jpg (230 Kb)
Floor 12 is boring; the only enemy type I have seen so far is Minotaur.

For my Cleric/Mage run, I think I will put my Strength and Dexterity at only 12. Low Strength means my physical attacks are weaker, encouraging the use of magic. Low Dexterity means worse AC, perhaps making spells like Armor and Magical Vestment actually useful.

One other houserule for the Cleric/Mage run: Any armor that prevents mage spellcasting may not be worn. (Unfortunately, there is a chance this may happen with the set armor.)

Should I enable undead on the Cleric/Mage run?

I wish there were an option to make magic using enemies more common.

Edit: One more thing: Treasure will be set to its lowest setting; I want a playthrough where I am forced to rely on magic, not powerful items.
Post edited September 03, 2015 by dtgreene
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dtgreene: Should I enable undead on the Cleric/Mage run?
Undeads are very easy to deal with in this engine. They could be enabled for more variety.
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dtgreene: Edit: One more thing: Treasure will be set to its lowest setting; I want a playthrough where I am forced to rely on magic, not powerful items.
Mages are least gear dependant, no doubt they can make full dungeon run being completely naked. This is issue not only in Dungeon Hack but in many similar games. Hence I prefer playing melee, as then stats matter much more as well as gear and getting new items actually becomes interesting.
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dtgreene: Should I enable undead on the Cleric/Mage run?
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Sarisio: Undeads are very easy to deal with in this engine. They could be enabled for more variety.
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dtgreene: Edit: One more thing: Treasure will be set to its lowest setting; I want a playthrough where I am forced to rely on magic, not powerful items.
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Sarisio: Mages are least gear dependant, no doubt they can make full dungeon run being completely naked. This is issue not only in Dungeon Hack but in many similar games. Hence I prefer playing melee, as then stats matter much more as well as gear and getting new items actually becomes interesting.
I prefer mages because I like the variety in actions you can perform, as well as with the resource management that is involved with playing them. Unfortunately, the game engine seems to discourage casting spells during combat.

I actually think Clerics are less gear dependent. Spiritual Hammer, Magical Vestment, Create Food/Water, and plenty of other healing and protection spells make equipment and found items a non-issue. Mages (normally) still need to find spell scrolls and food to be effective, and Armor is weak (and useless at 18 Dexterity, I believe).

In Dungeon Master, the lack of a cooldown for casting spells makes spellcasting more viable, as you can cast 4th tier fireballs as fast as you can click the mouse (until you run out of mana, of course). Also, fireballs are really powerful in that game.

On the other hand, in TES: Arena, I find that I use magic mainly for stat boosts, ultra Shields, and free (level 11+ for most, level 6+ for Healer) healing. I tend to still rely on weapons for actual damage. (I happen to like bows when playing a Sorcerer.) In Daggerfall, on the other hand, a decent Continuous Damage spell is useful when doing Mage's Guild quests that require defending the guild.
Floor 13 has Greater Medusas. Haven't been petrified yet, but I can reach AC -9 here.

I should test to see if I can get petrified with all my spells up.

Bug: Save and reload while wearing a Ring of Invisibility and the invisibility doesn't go away when you get attacked.
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dtgreene: Bug: Save and reload while wearing a Ring of Invisibility and the invisibility doesn't go away when you get attacked.
Invisibility isn't supposed to go away when you get attacked. It goes away when you attack.
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stryx: Invisibility isn't supposed to go away when you get attacked. It goes away when you attack.
Greater Feyrs are cheating then :) They turn invisible after attacking. Or maybe they just don't like being kited, *shrug*.
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stryx: Invisibility isn't supposed to go away when you get attacked. It goes away when you attack.
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Sarisio: Greater Feyrs are cheating then :) They turn invisible after attacking. Or maybe they just don't like being kited, *shrug*.
Maybe they used improved invisibility, that does not go away. Or it's an ability of theirs and not a spell.
Final boss was an Elemental Lord, far stronger than anything else in the dungeon. My character was a level 18/17 Ranger/Cleric (not quite at the level cap, but close enough) with 114 HP (I believe 20 less than the max for this class/level combination). The final boss took little damage from my attacks and could deal over 50 (!) damage on a lucky hit, killing me before I could kill it.

It turns out that Elemental Lords are not immune to Slay Living, and I was able to get it to fail its saving throw.
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dtgreene: Final boss was an Elemental Lord, far stronger than anything else in the dungeon. My character was a level 18/17 Ranger/Cleric (not quite at the level cap, but close enough) with 114 HP (I believe 20 less than the max for this class/level combination). The final boss took little damage from my attacks and could deal over 50 (!) damage on a lucky hit, killing me before I could kill it.

It turns out that Elemental Lords are not immune to Slay Living, and I was able to get it to fail its saving throw.
Slay Living is cheat :)

Speaking about Elemental Lord, I am preparing to fight Elemental Dog in Agarest Zero. Wake-Up Call Boss like cockatrice in 1st Agarest. Just to describe fight's madness: Dog has 2 helpers - Fairies, who keep flying outside of range of your attacks, heal any monster from 1 HP to 100% in 1 cast and randomly 1-shot your people when they aren't busy healing. Dog 1-shotted my toughest character and another one by 1.5+ times their health by normal attacks, while I managed to take one Fairy down. Other Fairy had bad luck and didn't manage to 1-shot one of my other characters (removed only like 80% of HP)... Screenshot of my failure attached.

Fighting 3 Elemental Lords at once still will be much easier than this fight. Agarest's Fairies are so much rage inducing, they are bosses in disguise on their own...

Sorry for off-topic :) I needed to vent a bit :)
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flame_dog.jpg (263 Kb)
Post edited September 05, 2015 by Sarisio
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Sarisio: Slay Living is cheat :)
I don't see the problem; it's just that too many games make bosses immune to spells like that, so it's nice when a boss *isn't* immune to such spells. It made that spell useful for a change.

When I do my Cleric/Mage playthrough (with my spell learning houserule), I plan to take Flesh to Stone if I don't find a scroll of it or Disintegrate before level 12.

By the way, does Disintegrate destroy items carried in this game?

Elminage Gothic didn't give most bosses instant death immunity IIRC.
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dtgreene: I don't see the problem; it's just that too many games make bosses immune to spells like that, so it's nice when a boss *isn't* immune to such spells. It made that spell useful for a change.

When I do my Cleric/Mage playthrough (with my spell learning houserule), I plan to take Flesh to Stone if I don't find a scroll of it or Disintegrate before level 12.

By the way, does Disintegrate destroy items carried in this game?

Elminage Gothic didn't give most bosses instant death immunity IIRC.
I played several games, where using Instant Death attacks would deny you any kind of reward from monster - no EXP, no Gold, no loot. So to be sure I will get credit for kill, I never use Instant Death attacks. Also Instant Death attacks are very cheap move when they are used against you, I don't lower myself to such tricks :))
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dtgreene: When I do my Cleric/Mage playthrough (with my spell learning houserule), I plan to take Flesh to Stone if I don't find a scroll of it or Disintegrate before level 12.
Here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsirNzyIZ6k you can see someone at 8:12 trying disintegrate and flesh to stone on an elemental lord. To no effect.
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dtgreene: When I do my Cleric/Mage playthrough (with my spell learning houserule), I plan to take Flesh to Stone if I don't find a scroll of it or Disintegrate before level 12.
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stryx: Here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsirNzyIZ6k you can see someone at 8:12 trying disintegrate and flesh to stone on an elemental lord. To no effect.
Sorry, but I do not watch videos with non-English audio commentary. (I actually prefer gameplay videos I watch to have no audio commentary in the first place.)

Anyway, when I do that run, I will have Slay Living by being a Cleric (why do Clerics get instant death spells before Mages anyway?), and Finger of Death is also an option (though it might not make sense to pick that spell unless I find Mordenkainen's Sword, but keep in mind I will be playing with treasure on its lowest setting).

Another thing to note is that I had Prayer in effect, which weakens enemy saving throws.
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dtgreene: Another thing to note is that I had Prayer in effect, which weakens enemy saving throws.
Prayer has a 60-ft. radius AoE. So unless you cast the prayer quite close to the monster, it doesn't affect it's saving throws. Sure it affects your character, but it does not affect any monsters that you encounter later, even though you're still under the effect of it.
Post edited September 05, 2015 by stryx