The game is so close to being perfect. It really just needs to polished to a shine.I have no doubt that public perception will turn for the better as the game is cleaned up and they release dlc. The game really needed like 6 more months in oven. I would imagine that covid impacted development greatly. We know that they couldn't get external playtesters because covid so devs had to play test themselves.

I also don't get the gameplay complaints though. I mean it's almost a carbon copy of the Witcher 3 in quest design, player choice etc. It's even deeper than the Witcher 3. Really don't understand why one game is considered by many as their favorite game of the generation but Cyberpunk isn't? I think it's got a lot to do with the negativity. Everyone want to be the cool kid on the block and fit in, even if that means tearing down what CDPR did well.

Oh well. These same people crying for refunds will buy the game again and will sing it's praises in the coming years as it becomes more popular to do so I'm sure. They follow crowds and can't think for themselves. Got to let the kids get their energy out before the adults can discuss the game's merits and so far I would say it's been a positive experience overall.

The thing is that those who says this is an RPG really doesn't understand what RPG really is, and add to the fact that this game has more holes than a Swiss cheese should tell anyone with a critical and analytical mind that they most likely needed more than 6 months to fill the holes and really call it an AAA game.

This game was for 8 years hyped up by CDPR to be next-gen open-world RPG with distinct choices so of course people got unhappy since that is false advertisements. CDPR did change the games description just a few months ago to draw in more hype from a broader audience. Instead we got a relatively linear story in a dead environment. Actions don't have consequences and there are little to no room for going about a mission in a specific way.

Simple fact is, this is way more like GTA V (but they still failed) than Witcher 3.

And I could really say the same thing - people who can't think for themselves don't understand the difference between emotional outrage and constructive criticism. Furthermore, those that really don't want to see how far the game really is to be a complete AAA game, swallowed the wrong pill anyway.

It has a potential, sure, but only CDPR can really make it shine.

EDIT:

tl;dr - the people who wanted a next-gen RPG got disappointed, and the people who wanted a next-gen GTA V killer also got disappointed.

i dont understand this post.
you say cp compared to crpgs will fail but then you say cp is a real rpg? i dont get it
in a real rpg you should have choices that influence the story but in cyberpunk you only have the choice of how to finish a mission but that doesnt influence anything at all

im not on the hatetrain, i enjoy cp for the story, and i say it is ofcourse an (a)rpg and people who say this is not an rpg are thinking of crpgs which this is definitly not

and .. it sounds like you only played pen and paper with gms that didnt like you lol ^^

I think a lot of people these days are thoroughly confused about what is or isn't an RPG and that isn't helped by storefronts that list things with just a small amount of RPG elements as RPG.

Games like Crusader Kings 3, which is a Grand Strategy game is listed as an RPG on most game storefronts that have it. It isn't one. I's still a Grand Strategy game with RPG elements added to it.

On the opposite end of the spectrum there are some who don't consider anything an RPG unless it's a party based cRPG that follows (or at least duplicates) D&D P&P rules as faithfully as possible (Baldur's Gate, D:OS, etc.)

RPGs to me are any games where the core gameplay is about building a character or characters from a variety of choices that make their play better at doing some things than others.

CP2077 is an RPG and as much one as TW3 was - and many hard-liners didn't consider TW3 an RPG either because you had to play as Geralt and not roll your own character lol.

There's a lot of pedantic horseshit in any discussion about what is or isn't an RPG. RPGs can be linear and heavily scripted or less so. That makes them different from each other but it doesn't define what they are. In the early days of RPGs in computers most of them were linear AF with no branching gameplay based on decisions. If they gave you choices at all the name of the game was figuring out the correct one because all other options lead to death / game over / reload save.

CP2077 has a robust character development system - more robust even than TW3. We can quibble about how some choices are OP and some nearly useless but we can do that with TW3 as well and there are still, after many patches and expansions, some builds in TW3 much better than others with the light attack, alchemy build ruling them all. ALL RPGs have those imbalances after the min-maxers have at it. And then YT spreads the word (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ATkGx0iFUE) But it's still an RPG. The existence of god-like builds doesn't invalidate that.

Yes the decisions you make in CP2077 are mostly for added flavor. You may occasionally save some coin if you're a nomad instead of a corpo or street kid (gig where you go warn a cop to leave town) or you may strike a romantic relationship with one character and not another, but it IS the same story beginning to end more or less. That speaks to the linearity of the story not its RPGness.

The RPGness of the game is all about which main stats and perks you spend point on. And yes, it has as much right to call itself an RPG as TW3, or Skyrim or Divinity Original Sin or Baldur's gate does.

It does not fail comparing to other RPG, actually the opposite - it is way better, much more open, have more background and is giving much more options to play. Yet some players who are approaching it as if it was some other game are missing this.

Eg. those who liked GTA are complaining about how card drives and lack of GTA well known functions (car modding, how driving works, car theft, etc.). It is in a way valid complain and having that would make CP2077 better, yet what they are missing is that car aspect is not key point but an addition. It could as well be not present at all and it would still be a great story (see: DeusEx).
Same about third person perspective, ability to impact the world, having more then one story line with exclusive choices ad many other unmet expectations.

Do not get me wrong - I agree that having all that would make game even better. But what I'm trying to say that CP2077 as it is already a great game even without those extras. And at the same time it is much better in aspect of playing the game the way you want.

Yes, main story is largely linear and per-scribed. Yes, key dialogs are made in the way that you will end up in the same point. But except the initial story (getting the chip) player have a 100% control of how to approach each and every mission.
In my opinion this is exactly the key point - the same mission can be approached completely different way. Or even a combination of ways (eg. some basic hack, then stealth and single shot execution style on final boss).

The thing is, what you call "unmet expectations" can more accuratelly be described as "broken promises". People were not expecting the ability to impact the world in meaningful ways, or a substantial difference between life paths, or a living, breathing city, out of the blue; they were expecting those because CDPR explicitly promised they would be in the game. So you can't blame people for being angry at CDPR for not meeting the expectations that CDPR created with its misleading marketing.

That said, I'm enjoying the game. The story so far is very good, the city is an interesting place to explore (even if it feels more like a Westworld kind of place than a real city), the combat is fun... but the game lacks some fundamental design choices that I consider essential to calling it a "real" RPG. Especially when we take into consideration pen and paper RPGs like you want to.

In a pen and paper RPG, just to give a small example, I would be able to put points into charisma and talk my way out of many a sticky situation. I know that kind of thing is a little hard to implement in games nowadays, but it certainly is not impossible. Again, you were the one comparing this to a pen and paper RPG, so I'm just showing you CP2077 isn't nearly as flexible as those. No videogame is, really, but there are many that get closer than this.

Still, if we had been given a more solid AI so the city would really feel alive, some more diverse outcomes for different approaches in solving the quests, and a more meaningful character progression system (instead of "+5% to critical chance"), I'd be a lot happier. And I don;t think I'm asking for too much, since CDPR promised us we would have all of those, but ended up giving us a looter-shooter with great visuals and a great story. Still good, but not nearly as good as we were led to expect.

The problem is, "stats" and "attributes" are just a support structure for the actual role-play, but the role-play is found in the actual playing of the game and not simply in the support structure.

To put it into perspective, things like checking tire pressure, fiddling with the mirrors, picking a radio station, setting your GPS destination, buckling your seatbelt, maybe adjusting seat and stearing wheel position, those are all support elements for the concept of "driving a car", but none of them actually qualify as "driving a car".

CP has the support elements to be a role-playing game, but there's not a whole lot of role-playing in it. You can execute a mission in a whole bunch of ways, but since the game doesn't care one bit how you actually executed it, those many different executions are effectively equivalent. This is in direct contradiction with what CDPR said about the game before launch, how quests were complex and actions would have consequences.

Right now, actions have no consequences. I can murder the hell out of 6th street (and I personally have been, because why not?) and once you've killed a few thousand of them, you can go do their party mission. Sure, you can find some missions where there's a difference between lethal and non-lethal and there's also a few where you get a bonus for being sneaky. But there's no real downside to being loud. Loot and experience will more than make up for the bonus, and the fixer sure won't hold a grudge.

As far as DOS is concerned, those games let you do party based adventures in a fairly big world full of weird encounters. They're not trying to get that deep story-telling dialogue-intensive feel, but there's some of it too. Quests are not super complex, because that is not the point of the game, but the origin stories show that Larian can do it if and when they want.

And then there's Baldur's Gate 2, which is more than 20 years old and quite engine limited, but which still lets you do a lot more choice and consequence style party-based adventuring. And that is the role-playing aspect of the game. Not simply the level-up button, not simply the stats. Like I said, those are support elements.

OMG......

Guys i think Heartstone and GTA5 are better Rpgs. Sorry :( i know but HS and GTA5 are a new kind of Rpgs too.

XD

The story is on rails, the dialogue is super-limited, your character is forced into constantly talking like a stereotype and mostly not the stereotype you'd like, and the game world does not give a damn about any choices you make. This is not role-playing, this is an action-adventure.

By the way, by the proposed reasoning the Borderlands games also become deep and meaningful RPGs. Because, you know, you have full control over which gun you decide to approach any given quest with. You can even skip a bunch of quests. Or use skills. And Doom 1 and 2 were also deep RPGs, because you did get to approach every level in completely different ways. You could be all about that shotgun or you could just rush past enemies and hit that level trigger.

Do you see the problem here? If we twist the concept of role-playing enough out of shape that what we get in Cyberpunk 77 actually qualifies then there's going to be a whole lot of games with no role-playing that suddenly qualify, making the distinction of RPG or not RPG both meaningless and absurdly useless.

The roots of the genre back in the P&P days are what you refer to as support structures. They defined your role within the game.

To use your driving a car analogy, you would be correct if that were the end of it. But in RPGs it isn't because you can choose which support structures to emphasize as you level up and assign points to your chosen things resulting in being a better car driver later than you were when you first started.

In those P&P days what you did with your character was up to the imagination and craftiness of the DM who could design interesting or very boring experiences.

Once computers and consoles came along and we started playing RPGs in them those stories became more professional and we tend to judge games in how good or bad the developers/DMs are at their craft.

But it's still what the game gives you as options for improving and fine tuning those support structures that define the genre.

I'm not trying to blame people for having too much expectations. I agree that CDPR overdo the marketing campaign and promised too much versus what they were able to deliver. That is a fact. But t is also just one side of coin.
The other side is - and that's what I'm trying to say here - that what they delivered is actually a good role playing experience in very good cyberpunk world.

Yes, charisma to talk out of quest would perhaps be great addition. Or an empathy that affected relation to other people and that you lose when put too much implants. But as I see it, except for some urgent technical issues to fix, there is nothing stopping them from adding those not delivered parts in near future.

Also on what is real RPG - maybe it is subjective - for me it is not what is present as much as what is not limited.
And CP2077 excels at providing player opportunity to differently approach quests. Yes, outcomes are the same because main quest line limited to - more or less - similar if not the same outcome.
My latest example is with certain visit in the Clouds where 1st time I wnet gun blazing, 2nd time I tried more diplomatic approach with some hacking and while doing it I discovered that there is 3rd totally different way of getting to final outcome.

And when I found out this I noticed that there many other quests have the same thing - there is one obvious fool profe way of doing them, which perhaps 80% of players will do because they just want to get past it.
But if you give it more thoughts and actually try to play according to your character narrative strangest and weaknesses you discover very deep gameplay design not really often available in other games.

And by the way - this is also key part of what I call "real RPG". Ability to play your character not according to what you as a human know you can pull in game, but what your character would do given what they know and who they are.


And last gripe I have with reception of CP2077 is the kind of "super hero" approach, often spelled that whatebver you do you can;t make an impact of the world around you.
Well, yes, you do not and that is good. It is totally not cyberpunk-ish, not in my book, to expect that player character will become super strong destroyer of a corporation or will reshape the clan balance in Night City.
No, your character is just an average merc, ex corp/nomad/punk. You just accidentally get involved in big plot that is way beyond your rank. You can try to pull it off and maybe succeed but almost certainly you will fail miserably, lucky if you run alive. That is cyberpunk world. And that is what make it very different from other computer RPGs.



All that above is what i feel while I get the impression that many other player is actually missing. And why is made this topis is that I believe they miss on it because they try to play CP2077 as if it was whatever other game they played in the past.

And that is my final point to all dissatisfied players. I get your mostly valid compliants and demands, but do try to play CP2077 as a game of its own. Wait till some more patches / DLC if you can't get over some annoyances you fell now.
I'm sure those of you who manage to get out of the box of you past experience and unmet expectations will discover completely new and great role-playing experience.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_role-playing_game#Role-playing_shooter

And i hope all of you are happy now.

But you can't change the fact that it is a mediocre game on all front. Mediocre RPS elements, mediocre open world elements with high quality design. And thats the game oh sorry half the game the other half is somewhere in the dev's office PC if we are lucky, if not the other half of the game not exist.

That is exactly the kind of approach I'm talking about - shallow, at glance judgment with an aim to put a label on it. And that is most of the time wrong.
In this example - how can you call it a shooter if you can play it without a single shot fired (or a punch or a slash for that matter)? And except for some pre-scripted scenes, you may even chose not equip a weapon at all and still play it! Just because it is first person view and you can shot? Come on...

If anything, it would be sandbox RPG, yet is a much more then any single game provided as example of that group on wiki. CP2077 is more like the combination of all the good things from past games.
Well, an attempt to do so because having so much good integrated into one game results in what we see now - undelivered features and not optimal implementation of others. But that it is unfinished is not my point - we agree on that from the start.
My point is that it brings computer role playing experience to a new level. A lot of it is already there - it just needs more patience and open minded approach. And much more has a potential to come after patches / DLCs which I hope will come.

There are certain avenues you choose that change the world etc.
Not even a thing the exaggeration is strong with this one, Doom 1 - 2 were little puzzle shooters work out what weapon works best and be done with it.