Well I never said he got rid of the father issues :-P Seriously tho, "My family was evil to me" is such an overused character building trope it's not even funny.

(By "Got better at it" I meant writing in general by the way, not at including sewer levels and father issues)

Unfortunate that the worst of them went to Mass Effect then. Might have been good otherwise.

I just meant that I think maybe the quest-design/writing in BG1 is outdated in the way that it is very simple and not very complex? Like go here, collect 10 wolfskins, return to town... something like that? Quests without a lot of narrative. But of course, a game like Planescape Torment was way ahead of its time.

I did see one screenshot one time of the game with the main character surrounded by talking werewolves or something like that... please don't spoil this quest, but I'm looking forward to it.

There are very few "collect bear asses" quests in either game. They're either straightforward go-kill-a-guy quests or they're complicated real actual quests with multiple objectives. In most cases, though, there's only a single correct way to complete a quest, so if you're used to playing Fallout you may be disappointed. If you're used to playing modern Bioware RPGs or MMOs, though, you'll be quite pleased.

Ahhh!!! In that case, quest writing is definitely outdated. Things did get a bit better in BG2:SOA with some quests but then went totally down the crapper in BG2:TOB. Would be nice if the devs got away from this but it's much simpler for them not to, right? :(

You are right that the writing applies to any RPG, not just DnD but the only reason I used DnD as the example was because BG is a DnD game and OP specifically asked about the side quest writing in BG. With this in mind, I don't think it was a mistake simply focusing on dynamics you usually see in DnD RPG's (or DnD games in general for that matter).

Also, you'll notice I did say there were exceptions in my last post. PS:T is one of those exceptions and I think we can agree that the writing in a lot of RPG's doesn't even come close to the depth of PS:T's.


That's all well and good but what you've mentioned is how quest design has changed, not how those quests are written which I thought was the OP's main concern.

I know it's not an RPG but have a look at Starcraft 2:WOL, the whole game was practically side missions and the main missions didn't open up until you've completed most of those side missions. I know this is subjective but I found the writing in SC2 abysmal in virtually every aspect, so much so that I wish SC2 never happened. The cliche characters, lack of character development in the game, the "team up to defeat a common foe" plotline Blizzard is so fond of, "prophecies" which shouldn't have a place in a sci-fi setting, stupid dialog among others. Changing the flow of the game didn't help the sloppy writing at all.

I like mature/philosophical fairy tales myself :S

I never thought blizzard was in the story telling business. Their games are cliches for a reason -- so their player base can skip over it and still get the general idea of whats going on. They're just happy slapping the mouse buttons and spamming potions.

My 2 cents: It's a great game for today! Quests, characters, plot, strategic combat and open exploration make it a great game. The art assets don't age it too bad, either. It's very playable.

If you haven't played it and you like RPGs, enjoy!

Just to follow up on this, I played it for the first time a few years ago, in other words long, looong after its initial release, and I had a fantastic time with it. So yes, it is definitely still a good game today. Better than most games released these days, actually.

Ha!

What? BG2 has no story, it's shit on a stick. BG1 has a story, may or may not like it but it's there. You should play BG1 and pretend BG2 doesn't exist.

Here's BG2 story for you: you will follow the exact linear path set out for you by the developer, you become completely OP and all the time you're just chasing the bad guy whose motivations, setting and character makes little sense and invokes no interest.

It's a Disneyworld, go to the outer planes! go to the Underdark! see: terrible monsters! follow the Wizzard!

There are technical improvements in BG2, but only people with waifus seem to appreciate BG2 over BG1. That's the hard truth.
Just play the goddam game already, BG2 has the exact same quest model as BG1. There's no more advanced nothing in BG2 quests.

BG2 is not an improvement on BG1. It's a Disneyfied BG1, a pop-a-mole doritopope BG1. It is drool-stupid in plot. It is made for the lowest common denominator.

So hey, maybe it's for you?

Sarevok?

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

I don't think BG, just like any CRPG, should be judged for their story (and to be honest, story in any of IE games wasn't something to write home about). By gameplay qualities, however, BG2 is much superior to BG1.

well you skipped Planescape :-P

Oh yeah, I meant BG1, BG2, IWD1, IWD2 with all their expansions.

Completely agree that story isn't the one thing a game should be judged for, but damn the railroading in BG2 is quite something. And that actually affects gameplay.

BG1 has a linear plot, but the world is pretty much open to exploration. That's good gameplay. BG2 has a railroad of a plot, just follow the tracks, and that actually is reflected on how the world is presented to the player: one area at a time.

The gameplay itself is pretty much the same between the two, some things are certainly more refined in BG2, but there's no fundamental change.

Yes, BG2 was definitely where you could see the classic Bioware design formula for the first time.

Anyway, as the resident fanboy I gotta ask: Have you played Pillars of Eternity? Exploration-wise, it essentially works like BG1, there are only 2 areas in the entire game which won't let you freely pass trough, everything else is based around open exploration.