Its been years since I played a wizardry game, and I'm having a blast just coming up with a party. Do you think these guys could make it?

Fighter-Dracon
Samurai- Felpurr (Is he good enough to take damage?)
Ranger Mook
Gadgeteer- Hobbit
Priest-Dwarf
Mage-Faerie (Do Faeries just die too easy. Maybe an elf instead? Or can the faerie make it if her vitality is built up a lot?)

I read that most parties do fine in the first area of the game, but then things get tough. I don't mind grinding to build up stats and levels before moving on to a new area, and samurai and gadgeteers look fun. I am tempted to replace the samuraiwith a Valkyrie, but I hear that you can get a valkyrie to join you party later on.

What spell schools for the priest and mage, or should I replace one with a Bishop?

My mind is really exploding with all the possibilities. Heck, what about Bards? They look fun too! Its madness!

So any comments, help, and advice are welcome. And happy Fourth of July!

Fighter – Dragon; will do well in melee because of high str & vitality but won’t be that impressive with range attacks due to low dex and hopeless senses. If you give him a bow and short range weapon eg. Sword or maybe a mace then he should be able to give/ take plenty of damage… I’d bring his Intel/ Pie up to at least 45 or he will have issues with learning skills and being ko’ed/ scared but it’s not a critical weakness by any means.

Samurai- Felpurr; solid melee damage dealer if he has some one else to take the big hits and you don’t overload him with junk. Cats have a hatred of water however there is armour which can be made which will help… the mage buffs are nice to have but he won’t have enough Intel to really excel at magic damage.

Mage – Faerie; Will be the only real magic damage dealer in this party and the Faerie aces in this roll but you already have the cat to put up the mage buffs so perhaps an Alchemist would be better… doing this allows different buffs while doing comparable damage (gives an early access to the resurrection spell) and allows the option to go Ninja later on.

it's your game m8!

There are a couple of recent threads that you may find useful to read regarding some of your questions, but to try and help you here;

Re. Mages and spell casters. It's worth spending a couple of points on increasing Vitality the first 5-6 times you level up. I've found this really helps with keeping them alive at the start of the game. If you right click on your characters Profession, you can see where their starting points are allocated (Intelligence etc.,). Concentrate on these areas once you've increased your spell casters Vitality, but bear in mind for all Professions that Speed is an important factor. At the beginning of the game remember your characters are rookies, so cast low levels of spells. If you cast them too high, they can fizzle or backfire and damage your party.

If you explore the first area thoroughly, by the time you leave you should be level 6. The second area can be tough but there are ways of dealing with this. Use the edge of the map not the path; hide behind things to rest and use Shadow Hound; if you use Search, use it only after fights. If you're engaged in a fight that is too strong, you can run away - but keep an eye on Stamina. Also, organise your party so your weakest members are as protected as possible i.e. they're in the middle. Oh, and you've heard correctly.

Bishops can be a hard character for your first game, but they are rewarding as they can utilise and learn all schools of magic. I suspect the decision on what schools of magic to use for your Priest and Mage will develop as your game progresses, but you are right to think about excelling at a couple. You will find enemies have different strengths and weaknesses in the magic department as the game progresses.

Yes, Bards are fun, but so are Gadgeteers! You will meet and can recruit both/either, so can afford to wait and see which you prefer to have from the start for your next game

I think you've chosen a balanced party and should have fun - enjoy!

Hi.
If you're playing unmodded Wiz8 you won't have problems with such party, but you can still improve it a bit.

Fighter - Dracon -> good race choice, as he's not so dumb (meaning low mental resistances) as lizardman and his leveling patch is pretty simple - with that party like yours firstly pump his STR and VIT to the max (then go on witch dex/speed) and put him in the middle of first row so he can soak up pretty much all the melee damage. Get him heaviest armor and shield, sword (don't use axes - most of the best are 2handed so useless for sword/shield characters), mental res amulets and he's ready to go. Remember - always use berserker attack (fighter's special ability) - at first he's gonna miss a lot but when his proficiences go higher... well, you'll see ;)

Samurai - Felpurr -> another great choice, as cats have lightning speed from the beginning. You want him in the first row, right beside fighter so he can swing his sword and use that samurai's special ability. At 5th lvl you want to put 3 points in Wizardry skill so he can be your support mage (melee abilities will go up pretty well without using too much points). Pump his DEX/STR/SPEED first, than VIT to improve his stamina or SENSES for better criticals. Sword is the way to go (bloodust from arnika bank is almost perfect for the most part of the game). Always put some points into critical strike and watch out for samurai's weight limit -> when he's encumbered he's not able to use his special ability.

Ranger - Mook -> nice choice if you want to use that Giant's Sword (2handed) that only mooks can use along with bow/crossbow. Pump SENSES/DEX and (except bow/ranged combat of course) maybe sword skill (for this awesome giant's blade) or alchemy (at 5th lvl). Put him on the flank so he can shoot without being hit and swing his 2h weapon with extended range. Pretty simple character.

Gadgeteer - Hobbit -> Gadgeteer is an amazing class and hobbit is pretty good choice (but i always loved gnomes here - just look at their photos ;) Remember that you'll create most awesome gadgets late in the game so in the beginning this class is somewhat weaker. INT/DEX/SENSES -> three most important stats. Consider rolling female gadgeteer so you can use stamina-regenerating necklace from arnika temple. He/she's gonna propably be your locks specialist too so put 3 points per lvl here. Same with engineering.

Priest - Dwarf -> now in unmodded game pure priest isn't necessary. He's not bad, but you can put a hybrid here (lord or valkyrie). From 5th lvl they'll be able (with lot of training) to replace cleric. Keep in mind that you'll find/make gadgets/instruments with divine spells like heal all, superman (also in potions), guardian angel etc. I'd take Bard here and VI Domina (valkyrie RPC) in Arnika.

Bard -> maybe hobbit/human female (necklace in arnika, remember? i think that there are two of them). INT/SENSES/VIT, music (of course), maybe pickpocket (never liked it) or mythology (very usefull, valkyrie can do this too, but she'll be pumping her divinity/polearm/close combat or divine realm skills). Give him/her a bow and you're ready to go. It's great class, good almost from the beginning (you'll find nice instruments early on) and getting better later (although not so great as gadgeteer).

Mage - Faerie -> instead of pure mage pick Bishop and work on his wizardry/alchemy/psionics skills (3 points per lvl on each one). Cast something in every fight so he can improve quickly. Work on INT/PIE first, then on secondary attribute for school you want to raise faster (senses for psionics or dex for alchemy). Give him sling or 2handed staff so he can swing something while without spell points. With gadgeteer/bard/samurai support you'll gonna have pretty godly magic potential ;)

Valkyrie - Vi Domina -> put her on a flank with polearm, raise STR/DEX, divinity, close combat, polearm skills and cast divine spells every time you can.

So:
fighter - samurai (first line)
ranger - valkyrie (both flanks)
gadgie - bard - bishop (in the middle)

Hope that helps :)

Since the Bishop can be a complicated class to deal with as a beginner, another option would be to replace your dwarf priest with an alchemist (of whatever appropriate race). They're solid at restoration, pack a much stronger punch, and provide better utility benefits.

Vi Domina, as a valkyrie, will cover Divinity for the few things exclusive to it. She's one of the better recruitable NPCs, and is available early on.

RFS-81 would be a good pick for the other recruitable slot because... well, you'll see. ;)


The dracon fighter, I should note, can still be decent at ranged combat as long as you pay some attention to the relevant skills. High strength does help ranged combat, and Dex is liable to be your third stat priority after Str/Vit since it provides melee benefits along with the ranged ones.

My one recommendation would be to avoid ignoring strength with your Samurai and Ranger. It's an essential stat for them. Beyond that, I find either having a psionic capable caster or bard handy for access to the haste and pandemonium spells. The bard has instruments that cover these areas. It's not required, though. I've gotten by fine without both.

Yes, I'd actually recommend Strength/Senses for the ranger; Senses is unquestionably the most important stat for him, but Strength is generally a better secondary focus (especially if he uses bows) than Dexterity because it boosts his ranged attacks about as well as Dexterity does AND it gives him better carrying capacity, which becomes increasingly important as the game progresses and he starts picking up heavier gear and heavier ammo.

Thanks for all of the advice. I think that I will just stick with the party I chose, but I will use a lot of the suggestions for boosting up the party, and I will definitely add a Valkryie NCP when I can, and I will also pick up a bard NPC if I find one.

Fair enough and yes there is a very nice Bard, he is always welcome in one of my adventures.

p.s. Unlike “real” people whom would get upset with you for trying to “fix them” most of the NPC happily let you solve their issues as long as you don’t expect them to move outside of their comfort zone… UM on second thought they are just like real people.

I'm not so sure about the recommendation to pick STR and SEN for the Ranger because SPD and DEX are the only attributes that controls # of attacks and SPD is the only attribute that increases # swings.

You probably get an extra attack from just leveling up high enough and increasing the combat skills, but I suspect that you get 1 less attack if you ignore both SPD and DEX. It might just be better to increase DEX and SEN instead for this reason. If every arrow hits, 50% more damage is probably better than an extra attack (with swings) for pure damage, and then STR + SEN is the best choice, but from my experience, ranged attacks leads to a lot of misses even at medium range, and it's better to fire off more arrows for the chance of stunning, do criticals etc.

A party that keeps buffing the party with Haste won't have to deal with less attacks per round most likely.

Nope. With my first party, I made an elf ranger that disregarded strength and he basically hit enemies like an eight year old girl. With bows and melee. It was a sad sight. You really want STR maxed not only to boost bow damage, but also to unlock power strike and allow for strong melee combat. Melee will happen and there's no reason to be utterly dependent on ranged attacks even if it is a strong point of the class. As a mook with the giant sword, a ranger can have some disturbing melee damage potential later on. Especially with two ankh's of might. With the bow, you want those hits to deal damage and count so you aren't burning through ammo like a madman praying that instant kills alone can carry you.

Go strength and senses.

I see what you mean. My objection was just dealing with ranged attacks. If the ranger is focusing on melee attacks, then I can see why STR is more important. A mook ranger probably want max strength for that special sword.

I don't agree that max strength necessarily leads to dealing more damage with a bow, not if you get less attacks per round. The instant kill possibility is too low to be useful, but arrows have other effects, like drain stamina, paralyze etc. More swings means more hits and more effects added to the targets.

I disagree. It means more opportunities to miss or to have the attacks deflected by enemy missile shield spells. The Rapax love those. Further, it's more attacks to be subjected to enemy damage absorption. If you're just barely overcoming damage absorption with lower base damage from mediocre strength, you're doing worse overall, and still burning more ammo. Plus, the Strong Bow requires 85 strength to use, and I'd take that bow even over the Eagle Eye Bow. Getting back to missile shielded enemies, if you're squaring off against missile shielded targets, you'll regret not having some strength fueled melee power all the more. The ranger can easily be very effective with melee attacks without focusing on them or throwing ranged out the window. I like my rangers to be strong in both ranged and melee, because both scenarios will be faced constantly throughout the adventure. Trust me - when your ranger is packing a giant's sword, you'll smile rather than sweat when the enemy charges into melee range. If they want to sit at range and trade shots, you'll have them beat there too. Strength/Senses makes them a more effective and powerful addition to the party, and that's really the bottom line. Built right, (s)he might even make the party's fighter envious at any range.

Haste (or Superman) does cover the attacks/round somewhat, and there are items out there that give a bit of a boost as well. On the whole though, Strength will give you much better damage and your accuracy doesn't suffer for it.

Keep in mind that Wiz 8 is from an era when Dex wasn't the be-all-end-all stat for ranged powers as it is in most modern games. Strength and Dexterity both contribute to accuracy/penetration; Strength also boosts damage while Dexterity also boosts #attacks. However, between the two, Strength wins out for the reasons described above along with the better carrying capacity.

Dexterity is absolutely the third stat to focus on once Strength and Senses are at 100 though. Speed takes lower priority because Haste already covers that (and if you aren't playing with the unofficial patches then Haste + high natural speed don't mix very well).

You can have the perspective that more swings leads to more misses if you want, but you can't deny that it also leads to more hits. It's simple math. More hits potentially means more damage as well (depending on the circumstances) and it definitely leads to more added effects. It isn't very efficient to use ranged attacks at all in some situations, like you mentioned, and then then melee or magic is better. If I went DEX+SEN I would focus more on adding bad effects to the enemy because of the extra swings and put damage output at a lower priority. Other classes can focus on dealing more damage then. The melee weapon of choice would be a vampire chain, polearm with hex % etc, or I just skip melee and go for magic, because there is an excellent item for caster-rangers in Wizardry 8.

Strength might win for you, but as I mentioned above, to me it's not written in stone. You could focus on adding effects to the targets, similar to the gadgeteer for example (and still get Scouting). Also consider that max DEX unlocks Reflection for better protection.

Yes, it's entirely possible to cast Haste or Superman in every fight go for STR and get both max % damage increase and .max # attacks. It's a bit inconvenient though, so everyone might not want to do that.