Posted March 25, 2020
UnrelatedComa
New User
UnrelatedComa Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2011
From United States
jkhristian
New User
jkhristian Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Dec 2008
From United States
Posted April 14, 2020
I don't know where you guys have been. VTM has always been topical and examined political extremes, from fascism on the right, to communism on the left, and everything in between. It has always examined the things going on in society with no apologies. If this offends you, you haven't been paying attention and maybe you should be playing a safer game that doesn't challenge your beliefs or offend your delicate sensibilities. If World of Darkness wasn't offensive, I would want my money back. It has always challenged me and shown me new ideas I both agree and disagree with. I have been playing in this world since the early 90's and I wouldn't have it any other way. Snowflakes need not apply, no matter what your politics are.
Post edited April 14, 2020 by jkhristian
LootHunter
Political non-Euclidean
LootHunter Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Dec 2013
From Russian Federation
Posted April 14, 2020
jkhristian: I don't know where you guys have been. VTM has always been topical and examined political extremes, from fascism on the right, to communism on the left. It has always examined the things going on in society with no apologies. If this offends you, you haven't been paying attention and maybe you should be playing a safer game that doesn't challenge your beliefs or offend your delicate sensibilities.
Ah, so that's why some people were kicked out of VTM community for role-playing as nazis...squid830
EEEExcellent!
squid830 Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jul 2009
From Australia
Posted April 18, 2020
jkhristian: I don't know where you guys have been. VTM has always been topical and examined political extremes, from fascism on the right, to communism on the left. It has always examined the things going on in society with no apologies. If this offends you, you haven't been paying attention and maybe you should be playing a safer game that doesn't challenge your beliefs or offend your delicate sensibilities.
LootHunter: Ah, so that's why some people were kicked out of VTM community for role-playing as nazis... lordhoff
Old User (but of what?)
lordhoff Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Feb 2010
From United States
Posted April 19, 2020
LootHunter: Ah, so that's why some people were kicked out of VTM community for role-playing as nazis...
squid830: And why they dedicate multiple paragraphs (pages?) in the Bloodlines (tabletop) rule book for how to deal with "sensitive issues" like fascism (I believe their suggestion was something to the effect of "one shouldn't role-play nazis"). squid830
EEEExcellent!
squid830 Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jul 2009
From Australia
Posted April 19, 2020
squid830: And why they dedicate multiple paragraphs (pages?) in the Bloodlines (tabletop) rule book for how to deal with "sensitive issues" like fascism (I believe their suggestion was something to the effect of "one shouldn't role-play nazis").
lordhoff: --- but they allow other forms of socialism like role playing communists who were every bit as evil as the Nazis were. Hmmm. What I really don't understand is why they even mention crap like what stuff to restrict for roleplaying purposes. We are, after all, dealing with an RPG that involves undead monsters who prey on humans for sustenance, some of whom have been un-alive for centuries. Most vampires, even the "nice" ones on the side of the Camarilla, consider humans as nothing more than food - ie they think they're superior, and think nothing of killing humans (or worse, e.g. fleshcrafting). So why they felt the need to even mention some kind of bizarre limits on politics of all things is baffling to say the least.
LootHunter
Political non-Euclidean
LootHunter Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Dec 2013
From Russian Federation
Posted April 19, 2020
The same reason why animators draw same-sex couple kiss in the background in Disney feature film. Or writers add a speech about "social justice" in the script, even if it's out of character for a person who they are writing for. They are attention seeking activists and care only about being praised for their agenda. They don't care about the story, worldbuiding or even common sense.
Post edited April 19, 2020 by LootHunter
alcaray
dingy hippy
alcaray Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Apr 2012
From United States
Posted April 19, 2020
Obviously, because there were one or more unfortunate incidents during the evolution of the game. I'll bet you that the first edition of the rules had no such warnings.
squid830
EEEExcellent!
squid830 Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jul 2009
From Australia
Posted April 21, 2020
squid830: So why they felt the need to even mention some kind of bizarre limits on politics of all things is baffling to say the least.
alcaray: Obviously, because there were one or more unfortunate incidents during the evolution of the game. I'll bet you that the first edition of the rules had no such warnings. Vampires are generally considered manifestations of evil, so far as I'm concerned anything's fair game. Even grabbing the occasional baby and sucking it dry for a snack would be totally fine and in context (maybe less so as far as the Masquerade is concerned, but if you're roleplaying a Sabbat then that's less of a concern). So how someone can get offended by extreme right-wing politics in this environment is bizarre, considering Nazis didn't snack on babies (though they did murder a bunch of them).
Post edited April 21, 2020 by squid830
LootHunter
Political non-Euclidean
LootHunter Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Dec 2013
From Russian Federation
Posted April 21, 2020
alcaray: Obviously, because there were one or more unfortunate incidents during the evolution of the game. I'll bet you that the first edition of the rules had no such warnings.
squid830: What "unfortunate incidents"? Honestly, all those claims that roleplaying Nazis (or other extreme ideology) is 'problematic' is no different from Christians being concerned that DnD demonology can push people into Satanism. And to be fair, I can understand both concerns and desire to make some game more (family) friendly. But what angers me is that kind of duality, when people say that the game should be offensive and edgy, but when it offends them suddenly such edginess becomes wrong.
Post edited April 21, 2020 by LootHunter
squid830
EEEExcellent!
squid830 Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jul 2009
From Australia
Posted April 21, 2020
LootHunter: Probably someone became a Nazi after playing a few sessions. </sarcasm>
Honestly, all those claims that roleplaying Nazis (or other extreme ideology) is 'problematic' is no different from Christians being concerned that DnD demonology can push people into Satanism. And to be fair, I can understand both concerns and desire to make some game more (family) friendly. But what angers me is that kind of duality, when people say that the game should be offensive and edgy, but when it offends them suddenly such edginess becomes wrong.
That's likely the problem - it would explain the arbitrary lines being drawn. Honestly, all those claims that roleplaying Nazis (or other extreme ideology) is 'problematic' is no different from Christians being concerned that DnD demonology can push people into Satanism. And to be fair, I can understand both concerns and desire to make some game more (family) friendly. But what angers me is that kind of duality, when people say that the game should be offensive and edgy, but when it offends them suddenly such edginess becomes wrong.
If the game is supposed to have a more family-friendly nature then this stuff could be understandable (although the Christian/demonology thing is definitely way too stupid to be taken seriously at any level). But if a game features undead creatures who can potentially murder the innocent on a whim (or for food), then this kind of bizarre moralising shouldn't be in there.
It's just as stupid as some governments banning certain games due to drug use, but having no problems with random violence and murder (e.g. Australia still does this, though not as badly as it used to).
alcaray
dingy hippy
alcaray Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Apr 2012
From United States
Posted April 21, 2020
low rated
Obviously, this company (and any other merchant) wants to sell as many units to as wide an audience as they can. Paying attention to what the community says and to complaints is important if you want to be successful. No doubt they listen to you folks as well, when you scream at them, and modify their speech accordingly. On the one hand it is really hard to make everybody happy. On the other hand it's kind of a no-brainer when you consider the request to make a safe place for Nazis in your games.
lordhoff
Old User (but of what?)
lordhoff Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Feb 2010
From United States
Posted April 22, 2020
alcaray: Obviously, this company (and any other merchant) wants to sell as many units to as wide an audience as they can. Paying attention to what the community says and to complaints is important if you want to be successful. No doubt they listen to you folks as well, when you scream at them, and modify their speech accordingly. On the one hand it is really hard to make everybody happy. On the other hand it's kind of a no-brainer when you consider the request to make a safe place for Nazis in your games.
I guess in the game world, 1920-1950 vampires in Germany had no Nazi leanings and no Nazis were made into vampires. Yeah, right! I think the real problem in why they did it wasn't for profit but was in fear of being in violation of the law in some places, likely Germany. Heck, if I saw a Russian Federation diplomatic vehicle driving by, I'd likely give a Nazi salute and yell, "heil Putin!" (which I'd be arrested for in Germany). An international game has to be careful about not breaking laws (like decapitations in the UK).alcaray
dingy hippy
alcaray Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Apr 2012
From United States
squid830
EEEExcellent!
squid830 Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jul 2009
From Australia
Posted April 22, 2020
alcaray: Obviously, this company (and any other merchant) wants to sell as many units to as wide an audience as they can. Paying attention to what the community says and to complaints is important if you want to be successful. No doubt they listen to you folks as well, when you scream at them, and modify their speech accordingly. On the one hand it is really hard to make everybody happy. On the other hand it's kind of a no-brainer when you consider the request to make a safe place for Nazis in your games.
lordhoff: I guess in the game world, 1920-1950 vampires in Germany had no Nazi leanings and no Nazis were made into vampires. Yeah, right! I think the real problem in why they did it wasn't for profit but was in fear of being in violation of the law in some places, likely Germany. Heck, if I saw a Russian Federation diplomatic vehicle driving by, I'd likely give a Nazi salute and yell, "heil Putin!" (which I'd be arrested for in Germany). An international game has to be careful about not breaking laws (like decapitations in the UK). alcaray: People raised by Holocaust survivors will never have a sense of humor about this. If you are too tone deaf to appreciate that fact then there's no point belaboring it.
And Steve Irwin's family will likely never have a sense of humour about Steve getting killed by a Stingray, yet that doesn't stop anyone from making jokes about it. Besides, they could always make the Nazis the bad guys - like in many other media over the years. No one seems to complain in that case, and it would make sense that Nazi vampires would be in the Sabbat anyway, if they did exist in this Universe.
Post edited April 22, 2020 by squid830