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It's my first time playing this game (I played for about 8 hours total, started over a few times). I'm not used to being thrashed by a game so badly so many times, even in the beginning. Without the tutorial I couldn't even get it started. But even with extreme concentration, if I pick the average difficulty and a map like Madrid, I stay waaaay behind my opponents all time. If I start a thieving den, my men never pull off a successful burglary, almost always getting caught (already trained with maximum stealth). I'm always poor, never get to amass more than 6k coins at a time. Twenty years have passed and I never even heard of the option of courting a spouse, something I only know from reading the manual. As a landlord, my merchandise carts are always stuck somewhere, most of the time forget pick the stuff I set in the trade route.
Do I really suck that bad? What am I doing wrong? Is it normal to go so terribly poor in comparison to opponents, never getting to marry, never getting to upgrade my business to third level and so on?
So far I picked as occupation thief and entertainer in Madrid and landlord in Berlin. As a landlord in Berlin I went fairly better, but I hardly consider it a success, my carts have to be controlled manually most of the time, because they simply won't get to do as previously ordered.
Post edited February 13, 2009 by RafaelLopez
This question / problem has been solved by Xandaximage
Begin "easy" and move on upwards.
The game is difficult to get into and some professions are easier then others to jump into.
Blacksmith is relative easy to start with because it has a relative high cost "generic" item and a good valued two piece starter item.
The raw material is pretty steep to counter this though, but it makes it easier to "jump" up in income when selling 4-5 high price item.
Oh and remember to beef up handicraft and negotiation fast as the money it can save can be significant early on.
I do have a problem with the carts as well - trade routes are difficult to get to work properly and I've not yet found the trick to getting them to do so consistently, so much manual micromanagement is needed.
My main problem however is that carts sometime "vanish" where the ledger says they area at a location but I can't see/use the cart there.
As for courting a spouse, take a look at the top of the screen. There is your name bar, which you can press (next to the family crest/tree) - there you can see the potential spouses you can court.
I've not tried burglary so have no advice there.
I strongly encourage starting in London on Very Easy, just to get acquainted with the nuances of the game. There's a lot of things that aren't even mentioned in the tutorial, and it's good to treat L/VE as a sandbox to experiment and learn as you go.
I've only tried blacksmithing and tailoring so far in any depth, and I would recommend both as starting professions. Blacksmithing does have the disadvantage of steep material cost (as well as iron disappearing at the worst times, grr), but the items have good value. (Idle observation: in these kinds of games, the default presented in the tutorial is usually a good starting point.) As a tailor, you'll have to remember to send a worker to forage every now and then, or you'll find yourself out of flax (and flax is pretty important, at least to start). You do get to hire 3 workers instead of 2, though, so this isn't as much of a disadvantage as you might think, even with the added salary cost.
I haven't noticed the cart problem, but I haven't fiddled with the trade routes yet either. It's on the 'to-do' list, I suppose you could say :)
Adding on to what's been said about courting spouses: make sure you have money! You'll want to speed up the courtship as much as you can, and that typically means expensive gifts. Also, I didn't notice this in VE difficulty, but when I moved up to Easy your rivals of applicable gender can attempt to woo the person you're pursuing...I actually had a prospective spouse stolen from under my nose at the last minute by a rival!
I haven't tried the thief profession at all, mostly because I expected it would be rough going.
I've wondered; have you discovered how you get to lease buildings? I was a Goldsmith in my first run and saw the mine for lease several times, but I couldn't find out how to lease it, rather frustrating to say the least. I tried looking in the ...Town...Hall... (as the otherwise gentle tutorial voice would have it named) and everything, but no dice.
Can't wait to get the game working again, it was really a load of fun and relaxing at the same time! :)
I began on Easy in London-- your trouble with carts is thankfully unknown to me, for my shop started a mere stones throw from the market place.
I'm a 6 Master Grade alchemist, but I don't make too much money off of it. I'm steadily making more, but I think I could be doing better. Alchemy seems like a fairly good thing to start with if you try again-- you can easily make endurance potions that give you 2 AP, which is often handy.
I'm switching Occupations to guardsman in a moment of sheer insanity. I'm assuming it's that you're in Madrid, I think that city looked rather difficult...
Guys, I'm pretty much incapable of starting a game in a mode that even resembles the word "Easy". And believe me, I've played all kinds of games. Where I come from, pride comes first. I can't play in "Easy". But I might try on this one time... I think.
Anyways, thanks for the answers everyone. I'll definitely try other occupations, and expect someone to solve the mistery of burglaries as well... that one's really absolutely misterious; not even one success seems too much for me.
I'll test out some of your suggestions tonight, will tell of my deeds soon!
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joedohn: I've wondered; have you discovered how you get to lease buildings? I was a Goldsmith in my first run and saw the mine for lease several times, but I couldn't find out how to lease it, rather frustrating to say the least. I tried looking in the ...Town...Hall... (as the otherwise gentle tutorial voice would have it named) and everything, but no dice.
Can't wait to get the game working again, it was really a load of fun and relaxing at the same time! :)

I think you must click on the building in question to make a bid, but I can't be sure, never tried myself (at least not for leasing).
My results improved greatly, even managed to get married. ;) Also I found that manually sending out just one cart by the end of the day and back with ingredients is much easier than the "automatic" trade route that must be controlled manually all time. Thanks everyone for the help, you'll all be plus'd. :)
Post edited February 14, 2009 by RafaelLopez
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RafaelLopez: Guys, I'm pretty much incapable of starting a game in a mode that even resembles the word "Easy". And believe me, I've played all kinds of games. Where I come from, pride comes first. I can't play in "Easy". But I might try on this one time... I think.
Anyways, thanks for the answers everyone. I'll definitely try other occupations, and expect someone to solve the mistery of burglaries as well... that one's really absolutely misterious; not even one success seems too much for me.
I'll test out some of your suggestions tonight, will tell of my deeds soon!

Just start in "easy" with a very hard assignment to counter it :D
The assignments basically are only "wining" the game and not how your "opponents" act
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joedohn: I've wondered; have you discovered how you get to lease buildings? I was a Goldsmith in my first run and saw the mine for lease several times, but I couldn't find out how to lease it, rather frustrating to say the least. I tried looking in the ...Town...Hall... (as the otherwise gentle tutorial voice would have it named) and everything, but no dice.
Can't wait to get the game working again, it was really a load of fun and relaxing at the same time! :)

Occasionally - I don't know if there are triggers - a message will pop up inviting you to enter in a lease-bid over a mine.
Had just used my money on a new building so don't know what happens next :)
Post edited February 14, 2009 by Xandax
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joedohn: I've wondered; have you discovered how you get to lease buildings? I was a Goldsmith in my first run and saw the mine for lease several times, but I couldn't find out how to lease it, rather frustrating to say the least. I tried looking in the ...Town...Hall... (as the otherwise gentle tutorial voice would have it named) and everything, but no dice.

I participated in an auction once now. I got a quarry. It was expensive and useless. To participate, after the message comes up, at night the game asked if I wanted to make a bid (no Town Hall visit needed). The catch I think was that I had enough money to make the minimum bid, which was considerably high. One thing I didn't understand here was that when my character died, his son didn't inherit the quarry, thus I pretty much wasted everything I invested there.
For everyone interested, I managed make a living out of burglary now. The important thing is that you must scout any building you'll break in prior to actually breaking in. I missed that option entirely and thus kept breaking into houses which I didn't know how to get out of later. It takes journeymen with high stealth skills too, but without the scouting you have no chance to start with. You'll get $2000 to $5000 per successful theft (at least until now, after 30 years in-game).
I think I got the hang of the game now, after starting over about 12 times.
Post edited February 14, 2009 by RafaelLopez
Having played this game for at least total of 80 hours. I must recommend everyone who likes this game to try out LAN-game with your friend. I know it might take a bit of organizing to find a proper place/time for playing, but trust me it's worth it. This game gets to whole new level when there are friends fighting over on same market/town positions etc. (I think it's sufficient to have just one friend playing with you - so you don't have to organize a big lan party for this one...)
On single player mode i'd give it around 75/100 points but on lan with good friends I'd give it easily 90/100 points. (The main reason why it doesn't get the full 100 on multiplayer is because at some point there just isn't things to do or accomplish and you basically have to start again. But for getting to this point you'll have to play at least 20 hours, so it's not that big of a problem)
Hi. I'm Thorfinn and I suck at this game.

OK, not exactly suck, but there's always at least one AI ahead of me. (In most other games, that means I suck. Here, I'm not sure.)

Doesn't really matter which profession I play. Someone always has more AP, the AI is always able to build before I am, etc. I've even looked around to see if there's a way I can send the crappy master craftsmen I hire over to the competition to sabotage their businesses like he sabotaged mine. I even switched back to London, Very Easy but they are still walking away from me, though not quite as quickly.

1. I build the +1 AP on my house in turn 1, buy and use the Endurance every turn, and always have a walking stick. I upgrade my profession as quickly as possible. How in the blazes are there one or two pulling ahead of me in AP?

2. I'm never exactly sure, but when I get pickpocketed, I think my cash gets debited. But when I play as thief, either this doesn't happen to the AI, or they have money trees growing somewhere. I mean, if I steal 3k, shouldn't that translate into the AI being down 3k? So where are they getting all this money to build and expand business? Seems strange that some of them have amassed 3 first level shops, 2 second levels and upgraded to townhouse while I'm still at second level shop, but getting close to going to third.

3. Do I just have colossally bad luck or do master craftsmen really, truly suck? Set the slider to zero for one of the products and check back in a turn or so and he has everyone working on that product. Get the raw materials filled before you hire him and the first thing he does is sell all the raw materials for less than I paid for them. Does he serve any purpose at all? Do I at least get some kind of production bonus for putting up with him?

4. Do you buy and use "On Talent" every turn? It seems kind of a waste to spend 400 for a 1AP skill, but on the other hand, if that's going on a 6AP talent, its a great deal.

5. Kind of related to the thief, don't the AI carts getting robbed set them back, too? Or do they only waylay mine?

These all seem to be the case no matter the map, no matter the difficulty. Or as Inigo Montoya put it in The Princess Bride, "He's right on top of us. I wonder if he is using the same wind we are using. "
Ok, I am going to do my best here. I have had considerable luck with this game, learning it quickly, and even becoming radically successful! On easy. =P

But even with extreme concentration, if I pick the average difficulty and a map like Madrid, I stay waaaay behind my opponents all time.

First, your learning one of the hardest games to learn, cut yourself a break, and go to London, on Very Easy, and Free Play. Pride is one thing, but in this game, you really have to learn to crawl before walking or running!

As a landlord, my merchandise carts are always stuck somewhere, most of the time forget pick the stuff I set in the trade route.

The cart A.I. is really bad. Not much can be done here, other than to set up your routes to be as easy as possible. You can click on the bar next to the item to set how much they should buy. If you click and hold, you can just drag it to max. If there is no green bar next to the product, then they are sent to buy 1 of that item. Even knowing this though, I still have to take over and make the carts do right once in awhile.

Do I really suck that bad? What am I doing wrong? Is it normal to go so terribly poor in comparison to opponents, never getting to marry, never getting to upgrade my business to third level and so on?

You don't suck. It IS a hard game to learn. Just relax. =)

The catch I think was that I had enough money to make the minimum bid, which was considerably high. One thing I didn't understand here was that when my character died, his son didn't inherit the quarry, thus I pretty much wasted everything I invested there.

You must be able to make the minimum bid, and then you will be invited towards the end of the year usually. The reason it returned to your son is simple, it is a lease. You don't get to own it, as it belongs to the city. Not sure what causes the city to want to lease it, but that is who actually owns it, and where it returns when the person that leased it now leases a cemetery instead.
The best thing to do here is to only lease a structure that will provide you with basic resources you need. Which you can then lock the selling of at that structure, (mine, quarry, woods) so that only you can buy out that resource.
(I.E. Your a Blacksmith, you need Iron. You Lease the mine, and cease all iron sells. Then make the workers go mine a crap ton of iron, send it to your business, and call it a day.)

The important thing is that you must scout any building you'll break in prior to actually breaking in.

Click on the spyglass wherever found to scout a building. When the building is scouted a news button in the bottom right will pop up to let you know. You can take the link from there, or look in your building for an Intelligence pad.
When you get to this point, you will notice the details of the building, including the only three things that matter.
1.How many Pounds are there.
2.How much, if any, is the Burglary Defense.
3.How Reconnoitered the building is.

If there aren't a lot of Pounds, then go Pick Pockets, as that becomes very profitable. If the Burglary Defense is above a 50, I do not even try. Most Blacksmiths crank out an 80, and usually aren't worth robbing to begin with.

The last one is how well scouted the building is from 0% to 100%. This reveals the traps and defenses to your thieves, and makes you life a lot easier. ONLY rob a building once it is fully reconnoitered. Also, the higher the level of the thief, the higher gains he will make.

I must recommend everyone who likes this game to try out LAN-game with your friend.

Great advice, and very true. Unfortunately, this game has notorious Multi issues. For some it works seamlessly. For others, never at all. Since both the producer and designer companies are now bankrupt (that is what I hear anyways) the chances of it getting fixed are not good. I'll bet on the snowball surviving hell...

OK, not exactly suck, but there's always at least one AI ahead of me.

The A.I. really doesn't like spending money in the beginning. They hoard it. Your more than likely always going to be behind, not just in the beginning, but well through mid game. That is ok, just keep at it, and you will catch up. I have caught and surpassed a Dynasty that was almost an entire grand ahead of me. Just remember, when the Dynasty leader dies, since the A.I. seems incapable of training their children, they almost always lose a significant number. The longer the game goes on, the more apparent this becomes.


1. I build the +1 AP on my house in turn 1, buy and use the Endurance every turn, and always have a walking stick. I upgrade my profession as quickly as possible. How in the blazes are there one or two pulling ahead of me in AP?

I know this is misleading, but the AP button, doesn't lead to anything to do with AP. It is actually the Dynasty page that shows the scores of the Dynasties. You can also right click on their Coat of Arms to view their stats for quick reference.

2. I'm never exactly sure, but when I get pickpocketed, I think my cash gets debited. But when I play as thief, either this doesn't happen to the AI, or they have money trees growing somewhere. I mean, if I steal 3k, shouldn't that translate into the AI being down 3k? So where are they getting all this money to build and expand business? Seems strange that some of them have amassed 3 first level shops, 2 second levels and upgraded to townhouse while I'm still at second level shop, but getting close to going to third.

When you get Pick Pocketed, you do indeed lose that amount directly from your funds. When you are Pick Pocketing, that income is coming from everyone in the town, not one specific person. Though not literally, the money from Pick Pocketing is generated based on stats of the thieves and other things I am unaware of. Also, when you rob someones house or business, that is not ALL of their money, just what is in the building.

3. Do I just have colossally bad luck or do master craftsmen really, truly suck? Set the slider to zero for one of the products and check back in a turn or so and he has everyone working on that product. Get the raw materials filled before you hire him and the first thing he does is sell all the raw materials for less than I paid for them. Does he serve any purpose at all? Do I at least get some kind of production bonus for putting up with him?

Master Craftsman SUCK! If you just want someone to do whatever, and make some money with a business, use a master. If you want to max. the business potential, or focus on a product, you'll want to do that yourself. They do not add a production bonus that I am aware of, and if they do, it is not mentioned in manual, or in the game itself. Don't waste your money until you have to many businesses to worry about, and then hire them and let them go. Leave the sliders alone, as apparently, they are really more like suggestions than actual control over your business.

SIDE NOTE: If you are going to leave a Thieves Guild/Guards Tower/ Robber's Fortress in the not so caring hands of a Master, make damn sure you do the training yourself, first. They will simply not care, and send your 2 star thieves/guards/robbers to their deaths.

4. Do you buy and use "On Talent" every turn? It seems kind of a waste to spend 400 for a 1AP skill, but on the other hand, if that's going on a 6AP talent, its a great deal.

Well, sadly, it is only 1/2 of a star.

Useful tip here, with the person you start the game with, make their life priority the production of a successful business. When you can afford to almost have your supplies maxxed out, and still have a few thousand laying around, you know you've done well. They will die. With your next person, keep the business successful, but when you have a kid, take all of your extra money and buy Spinning Tops. This will increase the Handiwork skill of the kid, and can be quite effective. ALWAYS send this kid at least to Occupational Training which will guarantee they can run the business once your dead. After Occupational Training, a University option appears. I always go for one that increases the Negotiation. Following this, your third Heirs stats in Handiwork, and Negotiation should come out the booth with at least 4 stars in both, or close.

Once this has happened, max out this characters Handiwork and Negotiation with potions, stick, etc. With that done, your business will now almost double in income! The rest becomes almost wash, rinse, repeat from here, with each successor. On your forth heir or so, you'll have the income to buy a scroll a round, or three at a time. Then you can almost max all stats! if you have any extra Finished Product spaces you aren't using, you can store extra Talent scrolls there for use by heirs, only pulling one out to use it immediately.

5. Kind of related to the thief, don't the AI carts getting robbed set them back, too? Or do they only waylay mine?

Not to sure I get this one, but I'll try.

The A.I. carts may or may not get robbed. I have never seen evidence either way. I do know that the Thieves operated by an A.I. can and will rob buildings, pick pocket, and occasionally kidnaps. If you play as Guardsman, if your guards enter an area where any of these are happening, a fight will ensue, and you will be told exactly why. You can even set your own thieves and guards against each other as a method to test this!

I hope this helps those here, and those that will need some help in the future. One final tip before I go, Guardsman can Raid Thieves Guilds, and if they win, you can seize the Thieves Guild from it's owner FOR FREE! That's right, you even keep the Thieves, and all the equipment! One badass Guard Tower can lead to you owning all the Thieves guilds in just a few years!
Post edited June 03, 2014 by Ripdal