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Hi all,

I've long heard that X-Wing/Tie Fighter/XWA/XVT are fantastic (if not classic) games, in particular Tie Fighter. I remember owning a copy of Tie Fighter and X-Wing when I was a little kid (my parents always got me Star Wars stuff, including Rebel Assault 2), but always discarded them in favour of Dark Forces because they were too difficult.

I bought all of them on Steam in a sale once (forgive me!) and have just now decided to give them a shot. Now, full disclosure here: I suck at flight sims/space sims. Ace Combat and even HAWX are challenges for me. However, I did beat Freespace 1 and 2 a few years back, so I thought "why not?"

I have a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro joystick and I cannot get past the second trial for the X-Wing and routinely run out of time when I still have around 30 gates left. I've tried with the joystick and also with a XB1 gamepad and cannot finish it.

Do I suck at this? Should I give up on my dream of getting into space sims/flight sims? Is the proving ground *supposed* to be this difficult?
Post edited July 25, 2017 by ETPC
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ETPC: Hi all,

I've long heard that X-Wing/Tie Fighter/XWA/XVT are fantastic (if not classic) games, in particular Tie Fighter. I remember owning a copy of Tie Fighter and X-Wing when I was a little kid (my parents always got me Star Wars stuff, including Rebel Assault 2), but always discarded them in favour of Dark Forces because they were too difficult.

I bought all of them on Steam in a sale once (forgive me!) and have just now decided to give them a shot. Now, full disclosure here: I suck at flight sims/space sims. Ace Combat and even HAWX are challenges for me. However, I did beat Freespace 1 and 2 a few years back, so I thought "why not?"

I have a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro joystick and I cannot get past the second trial for the X-Wing and routinely run out of time when I still have around 30 gates left. I've tried with the joystick and also with a XB1 gamepad and cannot finish it.

Do I suck at this? Should I give up on my dream of getting into space sims/flight sims? Is the proving ground *supposed* to be this difficult?
They're supposed to be fairly difficult, but not at level 2. If you're running out of time that badly, you likely have your power settings redirecting too much away from your engines. Honestly when I did them, I usually just ignored the turrets and redirected all of my laser power to engines so I could get through them faster.

If the training grounds are REALLY annoying you though, please realize that they're not at all necessary and can be completely skipped if you want. Go try some historical missions to get a feel for flying (the X-Wing missions actually make for a fairly good tutorial) and then jump into the first campaign.
Do they ever teach you how to redirect power in the game or is this a case of RTFM?
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ETPC: Do they ever teach you how to redirect power in the game or is this a case of RTFM?
If not the entire manual, you at least DEFINITELY have to take a good look at the keyboard shortcuts for all the controls. It will NOT tell you what buttons to push for everything, so print out a reference sheet for your use.
No in-game tutorial in the first X-Wing, so yes, read the manual for the better

The first few stages of the training grounds can be run in "neutral" power settings: default speed is enough, shields are not an issue since enemy fire is sparse, and laser shots should be used sparingly... when you need a bit of one, or the other, just divert some power to them (SHIFT+F1 or SHIFT+F10), when you run a bit low, add power for a few seconds between platforms

At some point turrets starts to be a little more menacing, so try to take out at least one from distance, as soon as you finish a platform and before approaching the next one; Y-Wing is the best for this, but with just a bit of practice is as easy with X and A... always use single fire and learn where the laser converge; note that in the first levels, turrets always shot forward, so you can have the shield set on FORE only, which will maximize your energy usage

When the difficulty raises a bit, you may try setting laser power +1 and shield power -1 or even -2; speed will be still good, but since shields depletes reatively slow, you can manage them by just pumping a bit of laser energy when needed... be quick to switch from FORE to AFT as you end the platform when the backward shooting turrets starts to appear

Do not underestimate the time bonus for shooting turrets, those 2 seconds it really adds up and are vital for later stages... at the same time don't risk a collision/consume too many shots just to get one more


Also worth mentioning:
- the three obstacles on each platform are "transparent": you can shot through them to hit the turrets behind
- Since you do not need big pitch and jaw manouvering, but rather precision, this is actually much easier with a mouse, especiallly for sniping turrets from afar
Post edited July 25, 2017 by Antaniserse
If it already says my throttle is at full power, is that as high as it can go? My problem isn't the turrets shooting me down, it's the timer.
Post edited July 25, 2017 by ETPC
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ETPC: If it already says my throttle is at full power, is that as high as it can go?
Speed is influenced by throttle AND engine power (the blue bar); when you lower either laser or shields recharge, the blue bar raises, giving you higher top speed

This guy here does basically everything I described above (note the constant power shifting)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aQlDMGb6Nk
Post edited July 25, 2017 by Antaniserse
I got past the second trial! And I'm SO close to finishing the third trial but it's a massive pain to reach up across my table, over my joystick to the F keys. Is there a better way to bind these commands or am I screwed?

Edit: Oh my god. That video is horrifying. Is it too late to give up T_T
Post edited July 25, 2017 by ETPC
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ETPC: I got past the second trial! And I'm SO close to finishing the third trial but it's a massive pain to reach up across my table, over my joystick to the F keys. Is there a better way to bind these commands or am I screwed?

Edit: Oh my god. That video is horrifying. Is it too late to give up T_T
Move the mouse away and keep the joystick beside the keyboard, so you can use the joystick with one hand and keep the other hand on the keyboard, the buttons on the base of the stick are always useless with these games, there are just too many things to fit there.
Post edited July 25, 2017 by Det_Bullock
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ETPC: I got past the second trial! And I'm SO close to finishing the third trial but it's a massive pain to reach up across my table, over my joystick to the F keys. Is there a better way to bind these commands or am I screwed?

Edit: Oh my god. That video is horrifying. Is it too late to give up T_T
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Det_Bullock: Move the mouse away and keep it near the kkeyboard, also, use the joystick with one hand and keep the other hand on the keyboard, the buttons on the base of the stick are always useless with these games, there are just too many things to fit there.
Yep, unless you have a nice HOTAS setup, there are simply way too many controls required to ignore the keyboard. Remember, this is a space combat simulator, not an arcade game. A large portion of the experience is learning to properly manage power levels, transfer energy, track targets, lead your shots, etc.

Many people have their own preferences, but my usual hand position for playing was:
1) right hand on joystick
2) left hand on S, R, T, and Y keys.

Hitting S three times will regulate your shield energy front and back, so that's a common one, and the other keys are important for targeting. Then I got good at moving my left hand to change power levels as needed and coming back to rest in the SRTY position.

Good luck, and be patient! Remember that yes, this is a difficult, but very rewarding game.
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ETPC: I got past the second trial! And I'm SO close to finishing the third trial but it's a massive pain to reach up across my table, over my joystick to the F keys. Is there a better way to bind these commands or am I screwed?
Your stick as enough buttons to do the job, since you don't need any targeting or wingman commands in the proving grounds: use the ones on the base to bind laser and shield power settings/power redirecting... also, it should come with a profiling software, so you may even create a dedicated profile just for running the grounds, and another one for combat missions

Back in the days, I finished multiple times with a MS Sidewinder Pro, and that was what the 4 base buttons were dedicated to
Post edited July 25, 2017 by Antaniserse
Even at with all power diverted to engines and not missing a single gate, level three is still crushing me.
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ETPC: Even at with all power diverted to engines and not missing a single gate, level three is still crushing me.
How?
Are you sure the joystick is calibrated properly?
Is it the floppy or CD version?
The floppy version has weird controls at times.
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ETPC: Even at with all power diverted to engines and not missing a single gate, level three is still crushing me.
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Det_Bullock: How?
Are you sure the joystick is calibrated properly?
Is it the floppy or CD version?
The floppy version has weird controls at times.
1998 CD version with xwa_ddraw_d3d11.
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Det_Bullock: How?
Are you sure the joystick is calibrated properly?
Is it the floppy or CD version?
The floppy version has weird controls at times.
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ETPC: 1998 CD version with xwa_ddraw_d3d11.
Try the DOS CD rom version of the game.