How is that an afterthought? And what does that got to do with what I said?

It is an idea that the characters in the prior trilogy did not know. But then in the second trilogy they suddenly did. I used the word 'afterthought' because it is something that Lucas haphazardly added on to the Force mythology after thinking for 10 years about how possibly to explain things logically. It is something that the people involved in expanding the Star Wars universe (all those books, tv series, games, comics, etc.) should have known about, but were not told.

Furthermore, it was a stupid idea. If Avallone instead of Lucas had dreamed it up and slapped it on the story, you would agree with me.

It is a discreet example of what I meant when I said: "Avallone's liberties made more sense than Lucas' liberties." It is an example of one of Lucas' liberties. It was an indication to you that I did not mean my statement to be a joke at all, much less a bad one.

Clear now?

You don't know that they didn't know. That's speculation on your part.

Wrong. It's something that was conceived from the very beginning (and that's documented), but simply wasn't mentioned.

Should?! Why?

The fact that you don't like it doesn't make it stupid.

No, and it seems you didn't even understand my criticism against Avallone.

You haven't explained the 'sense' part. How do midi-chlorians not make sense? Which of Avallone's liberties makes more sense?

No, it's Lucas expanding the universe he created.

That was sarcasm since you not only didn't address my comment but came up with a strawman that doesn't disprove what I said.

Well, I am pretty much done with this. I will say that a *lot* of people think the force-is-created-by-intelligent-bacteria-that-escaped-from-an-outer-limits-episode is a pretty silly explanation to put on something that did not need an explanation. It is one of many many things that a *lot* of people hate about the second trilogy.

Please be welcome to the last word.

Anyhoo, I felt a lot more lost when playing Kotor2 for the first time than when playing 1.

In 2, your character has a past and has made choices and done actions,
but you're not aware what the choices and actions were.

At some points, you're asked to defend or offer reasoning for choices you supposedly have made,
at the first time, I was totally at loss with the concept, assuming some answers were true and some lies,
but I didn't know what was what. (when if fact, it's these moments where you choose your history).

Also, in those cases you could not attempt to lie and show yourself in good light, as my character would have done.

Also, you're shoved into a lot more situations in a way more evidently railroady fashion than in 1.


Still... I do like Sith Lords more than Kotor1, even if I think 1 is the better game.

The first one was an actual Star Wars game. And a damn good one too.

The second one was a buggy, incomplete and pretentious pile of shit.

Yeah, I usually like Obsidian's output, but KOTOR 2 was crap on every level.

Pole, have you played 2 with TSLRCM? If you do, I think your harsh opinion will change.

I haven't played it with the mod, but if the writing in the removed content is anything like the vanilla content (it was the writing more than the incomplete state that killed the game for me), it's still going to be crap.

The writing at release time did not make any sense because there were so many bugs in the dialogs and in the story line (also there was no music - Star Wars with no music!). That's what I hated so much about it. I have a lingering hatred towards all who had a hand in that mess.

And I'm not really moved by the excuses that some like to make. cf: Harlan Ellison's responses to the many times he had Hollywood projects that went off the rails through no fault of his. You don't whine about it, you punch somebody in the nose, or you get lawyers to get a court injunction to insist that your name not be mentioned in relation to the product. You don't spend the rest of your life whining that it's not your fault.

Anyhow...

2 points to be fair.

Harlan Ellison was and is in a position where he can throw fits. Bit like Alan Moore actually.
Both have grown more and more argumentative and uncompromising in direct proportion to how little it matters to them if they don't get asked to write ever again. The strategy that works for famous stars, is not the strategy an aspiring no-name writer should take.

When pressed for comments on "what the hell happened with kotor2", some members of Obsidian did give an explanation to the tune of "s**t happens, but you have to live with it". They haven't been whining about it forever and ever, they moved on like professionals. The story just gets repeated again and again, pretty much whenever kotor2 gets mentioned.

I'm not sure if that changed with the new content, but my main issue with the writing is the complete tonal shift (which never works with sequels) and probably the most annoying and infuriating character in the Star Wars universe.

Unless the new content give you the option to tell off that particular character without treating you like an idiot for doing so, then it's not worth playing.

Ellison is kind of a strange case. He does have legitimate grievances with Holywood, but his personality makes it hard to have sympathy for him (especially after that story on how he got fired from Disney on his first day here). Really makes me wonder how JMS (a great writer with a lot more class) puts up with him.

Yeah, Ellison is quite unlikable. I recall in one book forward he advocated paying your bills and adding 1 cent to your check. His idea was that it would drive those bankers/utilities crazy searching for where they were off by one cent. The thing is, at the time I was working at a bank as a remittance banker, and I was the guy who was driven crazy by stuff like that. And I did not make much money (it was an entry-level position) and the time pressure was nuts. People got screamed at regularly for not processing an acceptable number of remittances per hour. Anyhow.

1. Midi-chlorians are beyond stupid.
2. I think KOTOR2 is better than KOTOR1 (what a shocker, eh? Bet you didn't see THAT coming)
3. That it's a different story told in the SW-universe rather than an old trilogy repeat like SW-KOTOR1 certainly helped with that.
4. HK-47 is hilarious. In 2 even more than 1, although most of the gold content is in the HK-Factory.
5. Obsidian got time till Feb/March, then working on said projection got turned back to December since they made an amateur mistake when getting the extension. Of course you wont hear them "whining" cause what developer will ever find a willing producer if they blackmouth everyone. Being hostile to everything has costed more than one developer the end of their studio.

I'm aware that it's a game with a bad history for it's development, but as I said, the incomplete content is not my only problem with this game. And yes, I hate Midi-chlorians too.

The thing is that, it didn't felt like a Star Wars game. It felt like Planescape Torment trying to be Star Wars and failing at it (while lacking the cleverness and fun that Planescape Torment had). It had an air or pretentiousness (especially with THAT one character) that pretty much tainted the whole experience for me.

KOTOR 1 is, for me, the superior game (since it builds on what was already established and expands on it. KOTOR 2, in comparison, feels like an angry, bitter hate fic that pretends to be deep).